Why can't pulling get it right? March 18, 2021 02:27AM
One would almost think that there is a total lack of any vision or foresight at the national level of pulling when it comes to rule making. Before I start I do want acknowledge that national pulling does do certain things well, safety rules, show quality, track officials, announcing and some times track building.

But when it comes to rules the national organizations have done more to kill the sport than grow it. I realize that I have written about the screw blowers in the NTPA before and once again the rule has nothing but driven up cost and driven out competitors. Can someone, anyone tell me why screw blowers in the Lt Uninvited Mod class was a good idea? What was the gain, where did it help to grow the class. Same goes for the Unlimited Mod class, by the way the name of a class should never be unlimited. The name is just a marketing scam. And the PPL not allowing the billet block in the LSS class makes no sense, zero. All they have done is keep out the blue tractors that are running the blocks, and why, the hyper block is not different. Don't give that crap the the hyper block has a part number, go to your local dealer and order a block using that number and they will have no idea what you are talking about. The cubic inch limits in the PS and SF classes showed that there was no vision on what the classes could and would become. The cubic inch limits in the 650 alcohol SS is another prime example of short sighted rule making. The diesel truck classes should never have allowed multi chargers from the beginning, what was the gain in a multi charger class?. Does the PS put on a better show than the Limited or Light PS classes, is the 650 SS class more exciting than the LSS? Does the ever chasing of HP add anything to the sport? It sure seems like the only growth in the sport is in classes that have sensible rules and grass roots interest. Is it just me or do we see only growth in HF, LLSS, Light and Limited PS and diesel truck classes.

So here's the real truth about tractor pulling, the pullers make more power, the sled operator puts more weight in the sled and they still go 320 feet at 35 MPH. Nothing has changed other than cost up, numbers down. The fan has not seen anything different than the year before. One would almost think that the few that want screw blowers or hyper blocks only want an exclusive club. Only the high rollers. Pulling so sorely lacks strong, vision driven leadership. It's time for people with a eye to the future take control of pulling.


Dick Morgan

www.PULLOFF.com
Independent Pulling News



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 03/18/2021 04:06AM by Dick Morgan.
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Re: Why can't pulling get it right? March 18, 2021 04:18AM
Dick, - it is never going to happen, too many want only what benefits themselves, only selfish motivation. Most all want something that is self serving.
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Re: Why can't pulling get it right? March 18, 2021 04:20AM
"Does the PS put on a better show that the Limited or Light PS class"? YES and it's not even close!!

Also, what is all the fuss about Screw Blowers in the Unlimited class? How many points titles have been won by anyone in the Unlimited class with screw blowers? In fact the majority of hooks are won by pullers that DON'T have them! One puller running them said he bought them "to save money". Maintenance costs are nil, and belts for them are less then half the cost for roots style according to him. The extra power they make is fun to watch when they get them hooked up but if it was easy to do more pullers would have them! It's not easy!!
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Re: Why can't pulling get it right? March 18, 2021 05:22AM
Interesting that the 10Pro's are adding numbers as we speak.Eye Rolling

T-Bone all new chassis
Ace in the Hole been parked for 5 years sold
Couch 1206
Elsing's NH
Holzhauers all new Engler
Shamerks
Davison's bought Teipen's 66 series roller
Wortmans new /Ace Chassis


Without a doubt left someone out........Drinking
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Re: Why can't pulling get it right? March 18, 2021 09:12AM
Quote
PS numbers.....
Interesting that the 10Pro's are adding numbers as we speak.Eye Rolling

T-Bone all new chassis
Ace in the Hole been parked for 5 years sold
Couch 1206
Elsing's NH
Holzhauers all new Engler
Shamerks
Davison's bought Teipen's 66 series roller
Wortmans new /Ace Chassis


Without a doubt left someone out........Drinking
4 of those aren’t new, they were out last year and the year before weren’t they?
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Re: Why can't pulling get it right? March 18, 2021 06:17AM
Also going to be a couple of new Drivers to the class but very well seasoned in the 2 wheelers and mods lol so its going to be name that Driver on machines we were all used to seeing as another team and driver ....
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Re: Why can't pulling get it right? March 18, 2021 08:07AM
I'm not real sure what the intent of this rant is all about. Sure tractor pulling is expensive, but no matter what rules and limits you put on any class, there will always be somebody wiling to out spend everyone else. Look at the LLSS

non component
370/470 cube limit
6000-6500lbs depending on rules

Still have well over $100,000 being spent on some.

Give us an example of a motorsport where spending money doesn't improve your odds of winning?
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Re: Why can't pulling get it right? March 18, 2021 08:26AM
My point is that adding screw blowers that no one else had in the class was not helping the class or the sport overall. Why drive pullers out of the class. When you add screw blowers then you have made your vehicle only able to hook NTPA Lt Uninvited mod class. You can't hook anyplace else. I never said pulling is inexpensive, I realize every class is costly, but why add cost for little to no show quality gain? That's my point.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/18/2021 08:57AM by Dick Morgan.
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Re: Why can't pulling get it right? March 18, 2021 08:56AM
The Light Unlimited class had problems long before the screw blowers were allowed. Bauer built to the rules and they outlawed him, (with 14's) Simon's put 18's on and had an advantage until others put them on. Can't hook many places with 18's either. There are NO POOR PULLERS period. The fact one has more money than the other is called life.
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Re: Why can't pulling get it right? March 18, 2021 10:38AM
Several classes have had big dollar teams with multiple units dominate over the yrs, it's called EGO ! -- and desire to "puff the chest out". No different than the Yankees being accused of buying championships and the same in the NFL.Or colleges paying people to come get the team on top.
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Re: Why can't pulling get it right? March 18, 2021 01:37PM
LOL! Not just farmers! I played golf with a hindu, a muslim, and a charasmatic all the same day. They get mad at each other the hindu speaks sanskrit, the muslim speaks arabic, and the charismatic talks in tongues!! It's quite a site!!
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Re: Why can't pulling get it right? March 30, 2021 03:10AM
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Dick Morgan
My point is that adding screw blowers that no one else had in the class was not helping the class or the sport overall. Why drive pullers out of the class. When you add screw blowers then you have made your vehicle only able to hook NTPA Lt Uninvited mod class. You can't hook anyplace else. I never said pulling is inexpensive, I realize every class is costly, but why add cost for little to no show quality gain? That's my point.

Well, Dick, you sure seem to think to know everything, why don't you make your own association with your own rules, or become president of NTPA and PPL? Ever thought some of these promoters and board of directors are doing the best they can? Everybody always complains about cheaters, but they have to realize you can't get rid of cheaters. Also, even though the name "unlimited" doesn't speak for itself, the associations still need SOME rules in place for safety reasons. Unlimited basically means engines, size, blowers, and combinations.
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Re: Why can't pulling get it right? March 18, 2021 10:20AM
Pullers are still mostly farmers or first gen away from farming (me included). I've never seen 2 farmers agree on anything and that is the problem with pulling and farming. Lol
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Re: Why can't pulling get it right? March 18, 2021 03:36PM
I don’t know why a 6500 lb mod class with Two motors wouldn’t work for state or grand national level ! Limit the hemis to 8-71 at 45% let the wedge run two at 65% and a Allison with two turbos or the ox blower.two t53-13 would give you some turbines . Put these rules in and you would have plenty of tractors in this class. Just my two cents!
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Re: Why can't pulling get it right? March 19, 2021 12:29PM
Quote
Dick Morgan
One would almost think that there is a total lack of any vision or foresight at the national level of pulling when it comes to rule making. Before I start I do want acknowledge that national pulling does do certain things well, safety rules, show quality, track officials, announcing and some times track building.

But when it comes to rules the national organizations have done more to kill the sport than grow it. I realize that I have written about the screw blowers in the NTPA before and once again the rule has nothing but driven up cost and driven out competitors. Can someone, anyone tell me why screw blowers in the Lt Uninvited Mod class was a good idea? What was the gain, where did it help to grow the class. Same goes for the Unlimited Mod class, by the way the name of a class should never be unlimited. The name is just a marketing scam. And the PPL not allowing the billet block in the LSS class makes no sense, zero. All they have done is keep out the blue tractors that are running the blocks, and why, the hyper block is not different. Don't give that crap the the hyper block has a part number, go to your local dealer and order a block using that number and they will have no idea what you are talking about. The cubic inch limits in the PS and SF classes showed that there was no vision on what the classes could and would become. The cubic inch limits in the 650 alcohol SS is another prime example of short sighted rule making. The diesel truck classes should never have allowed multi chargers from the beginning, what was the gain in a multi charger class?. Does the PS put on a better show than the Limited or Light PS classes, is the 650 SS class more exciting than the LSS? Does the ever chasing of HP add anything to the sport? It sure seems like the only growth in the sport is in classes that have sensible rules and grass roots interest. Is it just me or do we see only growth in HF, LLSS, Light and Limited PS and diesel truck classes.

So here's the real truth about tractor pulling, the pullers make more power, the sled operator puts more weight in the sled and they still go 320 feet at 35 MPH. Nothing has changed other than cost up, numbers down. The fan has not seen anything different than the year before. One would almost think that the few that want screw blowers or hyper blocks only want an exclusive club. Only the high rollers. Pulling so sorely lacks strong, vision driven leadership. It's time for people with a eye to the future take control of pulling.

Do any promoters use the VP dirt track additive to their tracks to help make a better pulling surface?
[vpracingfuels.com]
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Re: Why can't pulling get it right? March 19, 2021 02:54PM
Dick you've read my mind. Some may not see this problem or understand but as a person who does want to be able to pull in a GN class with an average pay wage i definitely do see the problem. Sure there might be a couple more new pro stocks but there are a dozen new llss and hot farms. And no most spectators dont know the difference between a pro stock and a hot farm, they both make noise they both make smoke and they are both fast. Most of us know the difference because we've been around this sport long enough to know better but alot of spectators haven't. These unpractical cubic inch sizes and the excessive amount of hp are going to destroy tractor pulling. Here's the solution: set practical rules for our classes and we'll gain more numbers, the hp may be lower but adjust the sled to it and this combination can put on a great show!
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Re: Why can't pulling get it right? March 19, 2021 10:57PM
Lewis has said that for years, setting the sled right can make any class entertaining,a hot farm or pro farm can run just as hard as a prostock if the sled is set correctly, most fans wont notice the difference.
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Re: Why can't pulling get it right? March 20, 2021 03:38AM
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Wheeler
And no most spectators dont know the difference between a pro stock and a hot farm



WOW,....I gotta see some of these hot farms,................Smoking
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Re: Why can't pulling get it right? March 20, 2021 07:02AM
Talking about speed down the track, not horsepower !!!
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Re: Why can't pulling get it right? March 20, 2021 08:11AM
I want to address the question about telling the difference between a HF and a PS. Yes all things being equal the PS certainly put on a great display of raw HP. However if the sled operator set's the sled so the PS goes 290 and the HF sled is set so the class goes 320 the fans will only see the difference in the winning distance. The sled operator is the most important person at the pull. They have the ability to make any class look bad, good or great. HP only comes into play show quality wise coupled with speed and distance. I realize that at times I sound like I like one class over another. Nothing could be farther from the truth, my concern is rules that force pullers to spend money for no show quality gain.


Dick Morgan

www.PULLOFF.com
Independent Pulling News
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Re: Why can't pulling get it right? March 20, 2021 09:44AM
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Bubba Gump2
Talking about speed down the track, not horsepower !!!

No,... you are talking out of your a s s,... if you think a pro/hot/farm tractor can easily be confused with 4000 HP .....................
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Re: Why can't pulling get it right? March 30, 2021 03:20AM
Why does everybody on this site think the rules need to appropriate with the fans? As someone said before, most pullers are farmers, and they just want to get away and have a good time. I hope people will remember with pro and super stock, most fans don't care what's under the hood, they just want to see the color win. I'm an IH guy, but when an Oliver or ac kicks ass against JD or ih, I'm screaming and hollering at the top of my lungs on my feet. I might get blocked from this site, but I wish people would just shut the ever-living @#$%& up and stop complaining. Don't like the rules or the association, then get the @#$%& out or go to some other organization.
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Re: Why can't pulling get it right? March 19, 2021 02:50PM
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Dick Morgan


So here's the real truth about tractor pulling, the pullers make more power, the sled operator puts more weight in the sled and they still go 320 feet at 35 MPH. Nothing has changed other than cost up, numbers down. The fan has not seen anything different than the year before. One would almost think that the few that want screw blowers or hyper blocks only want an exclusive club. Only the high rollers. Pulling so sorely lacks strong, vision driven leadership. It's time for people with a eye to the future take control of pulling.

I had that eye as a state puller 20 years ago, but no one wanted to hear or see my comments then on this message board.
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Re: Why can't pulling get it right? March 19, 2021 03:54PM
Can you imagine back in '75 or '80 the powers to be said, just put your ag engine in a mod frame with some tractor sheet metal on it, and oh and better yet build your own block ,crank ,head, who needs OE tractor stuff
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Re: Why can't pulling get it right? March 19, 2021 04:37PM
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L. Ford
Can you imagine back in '75 or '80 the powers to be said, just put your ag engine in a mod frame with some tractor sheet metal on it, and oh and better yet build your own block ,crank ,head, who needs OE tractor stuff

Well said Loren!
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Re: Why can't pulling get it right? March 20, 2021 02:52AM
I agree with bubba. I've sat at a lot of pulls when a novice fan would say what the heck is the difference in all these classes. They all blow smoke and take the sled down the track. I used to be able too keep up with all the classes and make an attempt to explain the differences but anymore I can't keep up with all the variations. I think there are way way too many classes with way too many variations in each named class. Here in the Northeast it's crazy with just A pump and P pump classes under the same "titled class" but the ship has sailed so I doubt that pulling will go back to fewer classes.
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Re: Why can't pulling get it right? March 20, 2021 05:19AM
I've said for many years that pullers are their own worst enemy. We spend thousands upon thousands of dollars to make more power or buy the latest greatest tires or whatever it is that gets us further down the track. The sled owners then lift another 2000 lb chunk of lead into the box or shift the box into a higher gear and we as pullers are right back where we were before we spent $50,000 or what ever the stupid high $$ number happens to be. Ironically the thing that often happens is that the tractors actually get slower because the sleds become so heavy that we gain less speed making the very high HP classes less exciting. I've often said that my competitive spirit over rides my common sense more often than not! I don't think I'm the only puller with this issue.

I drew a line in the sand with screw blowers, yeah they might be less maintenance but to me there was no other logical reason for them to be in the pulling world. Not when there were hundreds of engines in competition with 14-71 blowers in pulling. You virtually eliminated any chance of tractors being able to crossover from one mod class to another and still being competitive. People will say that they don't want to see the same tractors in several mod classes, that is all well good until you realize that there aren't enough tractors to fill all of the mod classes with out some crossover. Then you have people that say that they miss the days when pullers would add engines to pull heavier classes.

S'no Farmer
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Re: Why can't pulling get it right? March 20, 2021 06:45AM
The answer is pretty obvious in numbers. Look at all the classes across the board and at all organizations. The classes that have rule conformity have the large numbers and/or consistency in numbers.
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Re: Why can't pulling get it right? March 22, 2021 05:02AM
So what are we down to then? In a perfect world, what classes are left to stand?

Do we go with a list for state/regional and a list for national level?
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Re: Why can't pulling get it right? March 23, 2021 05:55AM
Define rules conformity and how it translates to large numbers.
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Re: Why can't pulling get it right? March 30, 2021 03:36AM
Uniform rules allow organizations to attract other pullers from neighboring associations that may have a break in their home schedule, therefore increasing numbers. Also allows a better market for buying and selling parts as well as complete machines that are ready to run where you complete.
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Re: Why can't pulling get it right? March 30, 2021 05:38AM
So Prostock and and Dss should be huge.....

Rules affordability is a lot more of a factor in class numbers than rule uniformity
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