The NTPA's ridiculous float rule September 18, 2021 02:17PM
I was watching the results online and 3 TWD went past the 350 float, so what does the NTPA do, change it to 400 during the class. Stop the stupid float rule. You don't even go by it so stop pretending it's a real rule.



Dick Morgan

www.PULLOFF.com
Independent Pulling News

Re: The NTPA's ridiculous float rule September 18, 2021 02:29PM
Dick, how many trucks were in that class total?

Re: The NTPA's ridiculous float rule September 18, 2021 02:43PM
There were 5 total. However I'm not sure what that has to do with the floating rule.



Dick Morgan

www.PULLOFF.com
Independent Pulling News



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/18/2021 02:45PM by Dick Morgan.

Re: The NTPA's ridiculous float rule September 18, 2021 02:49PM
Quote
Dick Morgan
There were 5 total. However I'm not sure what that has to do with the floating rule.


My guess would be because those 5 had had to be at a ppl pull the next day. Maybe I am wrong also.

Re: The NTPA's ridiculous float rule September 18, 2021 03:09PM
They did it in the Unl. Mod class also.



Dick Morgan

www.PULLOFF.com
Independent Pulling News

Re: The NTPA's ridiculous float rule September 18, 2021 03:08PM
It is the Enderle, one run and done full floating finish, no option of a pull off.

Re: The NTPA's ridiculous float rule September 18, 2021 03:10PM
Then stop posting 350 float and then change it to 400. Just post no float at all. My point is they changed it in the middle of the class. Why even post it at all? Stop making rules and then ignore them.



Dick Morgan

www.PULLOFF.com
Independent Pulling News



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/18/2021 03:13PM by Dick Morgan.

Re: The NTPA's ridiculous float rule September 18, 2021 03:24PM
Quote
Dick Morgan
My point is they changed it in the middle of the class

Dick, don't forget that the NFMS does the same thing also.

Re: The NTPA's ridiculous float rule September 18, 2021 03:34PM
You are right, however the NFMS is not a national organization.



Dick Morgan

www.PULLOFF.com
Independent Pulling News

Re: The NTPA's ridiculous float rule September 18, 2021 03:43PM
Quote
Dick Morgan
You are right, however the NFMS is not a national organization.


Yep it's the biggest "brush" pull on the face of the earth that all "national" pullers think they have to be at.

Re: The NTPA's ridiculous float rule September 19, 2021 01:55PM
The first puller at the enderle has a rehook option but with 4 or 5 tractors in a class not many take it. Anderson's rehooked in gn super farm

Re: The NTPA's ridiculous float rule September 18, 2021 03:51PM
I was there and it was the most impressive run of the night along with the drag race between a mini and a light unlimited,from my seat that was impressive and should happen more often it definitely woke the crowd up

Re: The NTPA's ridiculous float rule September 19, 2021 04:53AM
Dick, get over your "350 float" whining. NTPA is most likely not even listening to you cry about it.
"350 float" means pull as far as you can. At the Enderle, that is even announced to the drivers in their meeting. The tech officials do not want anyone's pulling vehicle
to break and yet to put on the best show possible. And Schreier was absolutely fine with that. However, overall, he was still a proponent of pulloffs.
Dick, when Voreis won the Enderle big class several years ago with something like a 408', did you whine about that? Another year with about a 380'? I think that was in the days of the 330' track, thus 330' float.

bbailey, I understand your spectator view of the side by side drag race. (Incidentally, I thought the sport is called tractor pulling - not tractor drag racing.)
However, if you are the lone camera person representing future coverage in "the PULLER", it is literally completely impossible to photograph each one.
And the one that was not photographed may be the class winner. Meaning their action photo at the Enderle is not represented in Enderle coverage.
But then, Larry does not give two hoots about a photographer. His viewpoint is 'they are non-essential to conduct a successful pull'.

Re: The NTPA's ridiculous float rule September 19, 2021 05:51AM
The way I look at it, regardless of the rule at "any" event, you go as far as you can, no matter what or where the "marked" finish line is.

Re: The NTPA's ridiculous float rule September 19, 2021 02:47PM
Quote
JDpowershift
The way I look at it, regardless of the rule at "any" event, you go as far as you can, no matter what or where the "marked" finish line is.


So does that mean that a puller can go out of bounds at "any" event past a length of a track that has not been determined? just asking.

Re: The NTPA's ridiculous float rule September 20, 2021 02:48PM
Quote
Supertiquer

The way I look at it, regardless of the rule at "any" event, you go as far as you can, no matter what or where the "marked" finish line is.


So does that mean that a puller can go out of bounds at "any" event past a length of a track that has not been determined? just asking.

What I'm trying to say is if the track length might change mid class or if there's a floating finish, then when does a driver stop especially if the run is an exceptional one.

Set tracks at 300 ft. and time the runs . For those that pass 300 ft. , fasted time wins. Simple really, and at some point, I think this is what it's going to come down to anyway.
After all, this sport isn't about "pulling" anymore , as much as it's about "speed" and momentum anyway, correct ?
We can't turn the clock back, because the crowds are used to speed now. The sport, imo, needs standardization, ( needed it a LONG time ago).

Re: The NTPA's ridiculous float rule September 19, 2021 06:21AM
Dave, I do agree that pulling them side by side is not a good idea. In fact its counterproductive to putting on a good show. When you alternate tracks you have half the down time. Now instead of 4 minutes between hooks you have 8 minutes with nothing going on.



Dick Morgan

www.PULLOFF.com
Independent Pulling News

Re: The NTPA's ridiculous float rule September 20, 2021 01:47AM
Quote
Dick Morgan
Dave, I do agree that pulling them side by side is not a good idea. In fact its counterproductive to putting on a good show. When you alternate tracks you have half the down time. Now instead of 4 minutes between hooks you have 8 minutes with nothing going on.

You have to remember this also: both tractors had the chain tight, and it would be unfair to both pullers if either had to wait for the green flag, making their engines more hot. I guess they both found a good spot in the middle of the track, but the photographer thing sounds dumb. Get to one side, take the picture, then edit it to make it 2 individual pictures.

Re: The NTPA's ridiculous float rule September 20, 2021 03:45AM
It would have been very hard past a certain point to edit the machines apart. They were right next to each other the whole pass. This happens so infrequently, about all you can do as a photographer is react and try to frame something cool. I got really lucky that they were where they were from my side. From the grandstand side with Chase ahead, this wouldn't have been nearly as good of an image.

The crowd LOVED it and it was a chance to get a cool shot, but I was standing right next to another announcer when this happened and we both looked at each other like "they're really gonna do this?" As exciting as it was, with a common center stripe and both guys crowding it some, it could have been a disaster. Thankfully it wasn't this time.

CP


Unsafe and extremely dangerous September 20, 2021 06:10AM
Quote
cpr
It would have been very hard past a certain point to edit the machines apart. They were right next to each other the whole pass. This happens so infrequently, about all you can do as a photographer is react and try to frame something cool. I got really lucky that they were where they were from my side. From the grandstand side with Chase ahead, this wouldn't have been nearly as good of an image.

The crowd LOVED it and it was a chance to get a cool shot, but I was standing right next to another announcer when this happened and we both looked at each other like "they're really gonna do this?" As exciting as it was, with a common center stripe and both guys crowding it some, it could have been a disaster. Thankfully it wasn't this time.

CP

Sigh. While I enjoy both pulling and drag racing, and have been known to make some comparisons between the two in regards to number of different classes and how different combos can compete if the rules are written well, a tractor pull is not a drag race.

This has been a pet peeve at Bowling Green for years, and this picture is a bad look. At BG, they do have something of a barrier between tracks, but here? No excuse. So the crowd enjoyed it? Irrelevant. Roman crowds enjoyed seeing people being eaten by animals and killed by gladiators. Doesn't make it right. There was a charity street rod event about a dozen years ago where an NHRA Pro Mod driver did a short burnout on the street. The crowd loved that too.... until he lost control and killed several people.

Having two vehicles pull at the same time is unsafe. Period. End of story. As Jake said one time, it should never happen. Ever. At Bowling Green, it could easily be stopped, but the people in charge refuse to. Here, they are fortunate the tractors stayed in their lanes and the mini driver wasn't crushed/killed. Even for the track officials, all it will take is for one to watch his track and a loose tire or other debris flying in from the other track to have a disaster.

All my life, I've heard "NTPA safety first blah blah blah." It's time for staffing changes within the organization to occur if these types of things are going to be permitted. Sadly, unless this type of thing is brought to a halt, one of these days the unthinkable will occur. Then, 50+ years of sanctioning pulls will instantly go "poof."

Btw, what do you think K&K would say about this photo?



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 09/20/2021 06:11AM by The Original Michael.

Re: Unsafe and extremely dangerous September 20, 2021 07:02AM
K&K has been at this a very long time and is very professional when it comes to what they do. By that, I mean that they are well aware that NTPA has a largely good safety track record and loss history as these things go and that they have common-centerline dual-tracks at multiple venues where the likelihood of even human error could lead to both tracks under green at the same time. I might even be convinced this is safer in terms of people around its occurrence than one track stopped and unhooking near the centerline and the other track under green right next to it where multiple people could be struck in the performance of their jobs. Their actuaries and underwriters know all of this and have already priced the risk accordingly. What would K&K say? My guess is, nice shot.

Don't forget that their decades-long marketing tag is "Insuring The World's FUN".

I'll allow it shouldn't have happened as I said above, but it was FUN!

CP



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/20/2021 07:06AM by cpr.

Re: Unsafe and extremely dangerous September 20, 2021 11:11AM
CPR
I was sitting in the stands just above where you were standing I didn’t know who you were but now I do lol but regardless of all the negativity being put on this that’s one of the coolest things I’ve ever seen at a pull ever in 45 years of watching and 25 of pulling I’d much rather see that than see equipment destroyed from detonation or a bad bounce
I guess ya had to be there to appreciate it

Complete nonsense September 20, 2021 12:08PM
Do we forget a few years ago when wild child was hit by the sled being pulled by bone twister in Minnesota? It about collected one of jostocks crew members too!! I am NOT Mr safety but there's NOTHING cool about 2 vehicles pulling at once!!!

Re: Complete nonsense September 20, 2021 02:02PM
Ok I understand both sides of the story and I knew as soon as it happened it would blow up on here as it has but how about all the grader tractors and rollers and skid steer on the track at the same time ? How is that safe ? At times there was 5 track maintenance vehicles on the opposite track while a puller went down the track and half of those were looking backwards down at the blade heck a tractor and skid steer got together right in front of me so if this is going on the other 99% of the passes how is that safe and I’m definitely not condemning NTPA I thought it was a very well oiled machine nothing needs to change so what if there was a little excitement
Just curious how many on here were there in person

Re: Unsafe and extremely dangerous September 20, 2021 10:16AM
"There was a charity street rod event about a dozen years ago where an NHRA Pro Mod driver did a short burnout on the street. The crowd loved that too.... until he lost control and killed several people."

Where?

You fix the drag race "problem" by 1)establishing a hierarchy of what machines get the green first and 2) One finish line flag person for two tracks.



Bryan Lively -
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Re: Unsafe and extremely dangerous September 20, 2021 10:57AM
Quote
Bryan Lively
"There was a charity street rod event about a dozen years ago where an NHRA Pro Mod driver did a short burnout on the street. The crowd loved that too.... until he lost control and killed several people."

Where?

You fix the drag race "problem" by 1)establishing a hierarchy of what machines get the green first and 2) One finish line flag person for two tracks.

Google Troy Critchley Memphis or Troy Critchley accident. 2007.

I agree totally for 1, regarding 2, no issue with BG or other double tracks having 2 sets of on track officials.

My issue is someone at the event level should coordinate who pulls, Jake suggested only having one sled be green at a time. That would solve this also, probably the better idea.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/20/2021 11:26AM by The Original Michael.

Re: Unsafe and extremely dangerous September 20, 2021 11:56AM
Quote
The Original Michael
Google Troy Critchley Memphis or Troy Critchley accident. 2007.

The point I'm making is that he might have been a licensed NHRA driver, the exhibition was not sanctioned/condoned by the NHRA. Clay Millican made a hit on Elvis Presley Boulevard a few years prior to that but there were barriers lining the street; there were none in the Selmer, TN incident. To my knowledge Millicans hit had no NHRA involvement either from what I read.



Bryan Lively -
Editor and Publisher, The HOOK Magazine, Covering Antiques, Classics, State and Regional Pulling;
Editor, Pro Pulling Magazine, The Official Magazine for The Lucas Oil Pro Pulling League-Available at PPL Champions Tour Events, Online and at retail outlets across the US! For Ordering Call (833) 466-5331

Photos

Youtube
TwitterFacebookThe HOOK Magazine Blog

PPL

Re: Unsafe and extremely dangerous September 20, 2021 12:55PM
To me the solution is easy... create a simple interlock for the switch in the finishline/laser trailer that won't allow two tracks to have green lights at the same time. Heck there's probably a switch out there already that would allow for only one green at a time. If its done through software it would be even easier to only allow one green at a time.



Jake Morgan
Owner, PULLOFF.COM
Independent Pulling News



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Re: Unsafe and extremely dangerous September 20, 2021 03:54PM
Quote
The Original Michael

. There was a charity street rod event about a dozen years ago where an NHRA Pro Mod driver did a short burnout on the street. The crowd loved that too.... until he lost control and killed several people.

Umm... False equivalency. This wasn't a street and wasn't an uncontrolled environment. I was standing against the backside of a barrier for which I had signed off to be in and under competition regulations where safety checks had been done for veteran pullers towing inspected and competent sleds. This wasn't some random Aussie who had a license in a big tire car on a vague street with no prep in the open. Chase and Doug didn't do this around the round-about downtown.

I'm all for safety. Typing this within arms reach of my helmet and firesuit. It was still cool.

So. Who heard who go and decided YEAH, we doin' this? Doug? Chase? Neither one HAD to acknowledge the green. They did. They decided. They gave us a show and I am grateful for it! In that moment it became self-responsibility.

Probably never happen again. Not that tight.

Maybe it's the hyperbole I'm pushing back against. I've already agreed it could have been bad and shouldn't have happened, but if you can't find your way to the fence from the other side and see how cool it was as a one time thing, I don't know what to say.

CP

Re: The NTPA's ridiculous float rule September 19, 2021 06:40AM
I understand and agree it would be hard to photograph or video I actually thought about that later on but at the moment it was something to see and it did wake up the crowd which needs to happen

Re: The NTPA's ridiculous float rule September 19, 2021 07:09AM
Quote
flyin' dust
Dick, get over your "350 float" whining. NTPA is most likely not even listening to you cry about it.
"350 float" means pull as far as you can. At the Enderle, that is even announced to the drivers in their meeting. The tech officials do not want anyone's pulling vehicle
to break and yet to put on the best show possible. And Schreier was absolutely fine with that. However, overall, he was still a proponent of pulloffs.
Dick, when Voreis won the Enderle big class several years ago with something like a 408', did you whine about that? Another year with about a 380'? I think that was in the days of the 330' track, thus 330' float.

bbailey, I understand your spectator view of the side by side drag race. (Incidentally, I thought the sport is called tractor pulling - not tractor drag racing.)
However, if you are the lone camera person representing future coverage in "the PULLER", it is literally completely impossible to photograph each one.
And the one that was not photographed may be the class winner. Meaning their action photo at the Enderle is not represented in Enderle coverage.
But then, Larry does not give two hoots about a photographer. His viewpoint is 'they are non-essential to conduct a successful pull'.

300'-320' foot tracks would make it pulling. Running as fast as you can makes it racing. The safest and easiest way to make parts last with kind of nuttiness is to time em from 75'-300'. same tractor would win.

Re: The NTPA's ridiculous float rule September 19, 2021 08:13AM
Quote
OG

Dick, get over your "350 float" whining. NTPA is most likely not even listening to you cry about it.
"350 float" means pull as far as you can. At the Enderle, that is even announced to the drivers in their meeting. The tech officials do not want anyone's pulling vehicle
to break and yet to put on the best show possible. And Schreier was absolutely fine with that. However, overall, he was still a proponent of pulloffs.
Dick, when Voreis won the Enderle big class several years ago with something like a 408', did you whine about that? Another year with about a 380'? I think that was in the days of the 330' track, thus 330' float.

bbailey, I understand your spectator view of the side by side drag race. (Incidentally, I thought the sport is called tractor pulling - not tractor drag racing.)
However, if you are the lone camera person representing future coverage in "the PULLER", it is literally completely impossible to photograph each one.
And the one that was not photographed may be the class winner. Meaning their action photo at the Enderle is not represented in Enderle coverage.
But then, Larry does not give two hoots about a photographer. His viewpoint is 'they are non-essential to conduct a successful pull'.

300'-320' foot tracks would make it pulling. Running as fast as you can makes it racing. The safest and easiest way to make parts last with kind of nuttiness is to time em from 75'-300'. same tractor would win.


Lots of us that pull enjoy pulling on a 350 ft or longer track if theres plenty of room at the end..The days of 300-320 ft long tracks are almost gone in my area..Most new tracks are built out to 350-400 ft..My local new track is 400 ft long with 600 ft of open field at the end..The average winning distance at our 2020 pull was a little over 330 ft.

Re: The NTPA's ridiculous float rule September 21, 2021 06:50AM
Quote
OG

Dick, get over your "350 float" whining. NTPA is most likely not even listening to you cry about it.
"350 float" means pull as far as you can. At the Enderle, that is even announced to the drivers in their meeting. The tech officials do not want anyone's pulling vehicle
to break and yet to put on the best show possible. And Schreier was absolutely fine with that. However, overall, he was still a proponent of pulloffs.
Dick, when Voreis won the Enderle big class several years ago with something like a 408', did you whine about that? Another year with about a 380'? I think that was in the days of the 330' track, thus 330' float.

bbailey, I understand your spectator view of the side by side drag race. (Incidentally, I thought the sport is called tractor pulling - not tractor drag racing.)
However, if you are the lone camera person representing future coverage in "the PULLER", it is literally completely impossible to photograph each one.
And the one that was not photographed may be the class winner. Meaning their action photo at the Enderle is not represented in Enderle coverage.
But then, Larry does not give two hoots about a photographer. His viewpoint is 'they are non-essential to conduct a successful pull'.

300'-320' foot tracks would make it pulling. Running as fast as you can makes it racing. The safest and easiest way to make parts last with kind of nuttiness is to time em from 75'-300'. same tractor would win.

Well, if pulling now-a-days had no speed, the winning distance would be 270 or 280, and no show wants to see that.

Re: The NTPA's ridiculous float rule September 19, 2021 10:08AM
Hey Dick it's called the Enderle Memorial PULLOFF which means you try to run as far as you can in one shot, regardless of track length, sled setting, what's happening on the other track etc. Who cares what the track length is during a PULLOFF

Re: The NTPA's ridiculous float rule September 19, 2021 01:23PM
Having a 300 ft track hear and a 400 there cost more for the puller more gears has to be added to the transmission something needs to be set across the board drag racing is a 1/8 0r a 1/4 every were you go

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