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Dick Morgan
I have written about this problem several times and the reality is it's not going to change. As harsh as that is the NTPA is not going to change one single thing. People, companies, organizations change when they feel there is a need to change. The NTPA does not, will not, is not going to see a need to change. They had a chance to change when David P. retired, did you see any change in anything. True the NTPA does do a lot of things right, yet there is always room for improvement yet they fail to make any moves. I guess one could interpret that the NTPA is happy with their business model, with their product.

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The Original Michael

I have written about this problem several times and the reality is it's not going to change. As harsh as that is the NTPA is not going to change one single thing. People, companies, organizations change when they feel there is a need to change. The NTPA does not, will not, is not going to see a need to change. They had a chance to change when David P. retired, did you see any change in anything. True the NTPA does do a lot of things right, yet there is always room for improvement yet they fail to make any moves. I guess one could interpret that the NTPA is happy with their business model, with their product.

I will temper my criticism by acknowledging NTPA is trying to get new events, such as Dodge City, KS, Atwood, TN, and Florida.

That said, in 1998 or so when they lost Illinois, Iowa, Missouri, NYTPA, ESP, and the mid-atlantic states, that should have been a wakeup call. Nobody was able or willing to buck DPS.
Losing Ohio a few years later and Mid South two years ago didn't apparently work either.
The controversy over following rules at Ocala earlier this year also underscores there are issues within the organization.

In the '80s, TNT and later USHRA challenged NTPA, but didn't necessarily overtake them. ATPA tried and didn't quite succeed either. As much as I like a lot of things about NTPA, if one looks at financials and member states, PPL has overtaken them.

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Pulling Fan2
Apparently you folks have never been to Hillsboro, WI??

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No NTPA For Me
Its a real long days drive for me to the nearest NTPA pull so they are out...I'm much closer to one PPL and several Outlaw pulls so I hit 3-4 of them every year and I've never been disappointed....

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Doc Riley
No one really ever comments on what NTPA could do different.
When money comes into WPI the bulk of it goes to the pullers.
New venues don't just pop up and the new facilities (Dodge City / Atwood) both believe in the NTPA brand.
Why do people always try to get ALL the RULES the same? NTPA and it's rule process are made in the best interest of the NTPA and it's members.
The only reason there are "other" pulling groups is that someone wanted to be different than the NTPA. Member states that left NTPA back in the 1990's all had their reasons. Several were they had their "own" group of pullers who needed their "own" set of rules. Illinois had it's own sweet set up and didn't really need NTPA. Iowa and Ohio kept things in their borders and had their own set of pullers they could rely on to make the show. NTPA Member states always cashed that end of season check and the Copenhagen/Skoal Money.
NTPA is a membership association and it's business model has been sustainable over the years. To fault a 50 plus year sanctioning body based on comparisons to others is a bit like comparing the NFL to the local high school. I'm sure some of the others have great events, but crowd size, purse, longevity and a core of people with passion make the difference. NTPA doesn't lose events to any other "group" (there is only one sanctioning body in pulling) those groups always think the grass will be greener.

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What I See
Getting younger people involved in motorsports of any kind is getting harder and harder to do every year..They just aren't interested and you cant make them be interested...Their faces are glued in their phones...The kids aren't interested in high performance cars and they dont cruise the main drag anymore..I antique tractor pull and the average age is probably 60..The old tractor show closest to me has practically died...It once had 2000 people and in 2021 it had maybe 200 people because the younger people just aren't interested....I watch drag racing and tractor pulling on tv and the stands are often half empty or more...I was at state level pulls in 2021 that only had 250-500 people in attendance...There were plenty of pullers but just no spectators...Its going to get harder and harder to find sponsors and new venues when you have poor crowds..

You can get all new leadership,do all the rules changes that you want, try and make the sport more affordable-etc but you aren't going to get the crowds back that you once had like back in the 1980's-90's..I dont mean to be a prophet of doom but motorsports of all kinds are starting to die a slow death...Lots of young people now think that motorsports are polluting the planet and that the ICE should be banned..With inflation-high fuel prices I expect the crowds to be even poorer this year..

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Elephant in the room

I tend to agree that interest in the sport is probably dwindling, but I also think some function of the poor crowds is the current inundation of pulls/associations. In Missouri for example, I could attend 100-150 pulls over the course of a summer if i had the appetite for it. All within a few hours of my front door and ranging from brush/antiques all the way up to national level hooks. I could hook my profarm tractor 50 times over the summer without having to leave the state, but to be honest anymore than twenty or so hooks a year and even I get tired of going. For the casual fan, I'd imagine the novelty wears off pretty quickly also.

Ultimately, declining turnout is probably going to force some consolidation of associations and the loss of events over time. As much as I hate it, culling back some of these smaller associations and events may actually be beneficial to the health of the sport at large. Individual associations would benefit by having a larger group of committed pullers to attend events, and events would likely draw more interest from the already existing fanbase even if they have to drive a little further.

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OG
The failure of the NTPA over the long term has been its inability to set up a Professional or Championship level of pulling that is distinct and separate from the county fair level. The economics wouldn't allow it when they couldn't keep their sponsors. In the years since the loss of Copenhagen/Skoal et al they have been forced to survive on the charity of the participants and an ever increasing base of "members". Easiest way to keep adding to the pool (member fees) is to keep adding different types of classes and diluting the sport even further. TNT was close to getting Championship level pulling off the ground in the '90's and I think Lucas will/has made great headway in this regard now. The NTPA had a great opportunity here, in the '70's and 80's and just never were able to capitalize on their head start in brand building. Those days are gone. The NTPA's niche is volume now, lots of classes and lots of low level events, I don't see much of a way for that to change now. If you wish to see a professional level of pulling really get rolling root for PPL to takeover some of the NTPA's remaining large events.

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OH1979er

The failure of the NTPA over the long term has been its inability to set up a Professional or Championship level of pulling that is distinct and separate from the county fair level. The economics wouldn't allow it when they couldn't keep their sponsors. In the years since the loss of Copenhagen/Skoal et al they have been forced to survive on the charity of the participants and an ever increasing base of "members". Easiest way to keep adding to the pool (member fees) is to keep adding different types of classes and diluting the sport even further. TNT was close to getting Championship level pulling off the ground in the '90's and I think Lucas will/has made great headway in this regard now. The NTPA had a great opportunity here, in the '70's and 80's and just never were able to capitalize on their head start in brand building. Those days are gone. The NTPA's niche is volume now, lots of classes and lots of low level events, I don't see much of a way for that to change now. If you wish to see a professional level of pulling really get rolling root for PPL to takeover some of the NTPA's remaining large events.

BINGO! AMEN OVER AND OVER! NTPA has always believed the big dogs should be able to pull at the local level and many states have done the same thing. What they failed to realize is this killed the national brand and made it next to impossible for a guy to start out in this sport. As a fan what incentive is there to travel if I can go to my local county fair and see the biggest names in the game? Now, no it didn’t affect the Tomah and BG type events of the world. Those events would be successful regardless. It stopped new blood from entering the sport by and large. To even be able to compete in Ohio you better be bringing a national level caliber tractor to the SS class if everyone is healthy and running. Your post nailed it!

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S'no Farmer
OG,
In defense of upper level pullers, there just aren't enough competitors to separate things to the level that is talked about. As an example there is one 2WD team that often gets a call to fill in at RN events...particularly during the week. That then creates hard feelings with some RN pullers as they feel they are being robbed as they support the whole RN circuit. The problem becomes that there might only be 3 RN vehicles supporting the entire circuit...not enough for a good show. This normally GN team gets put in the middle for trying to help fill the RN classes and taking their prise money. Then you might say don't have so many weekday shows, well most county fairs don't have the ability to have weekend shows.

Another aspect of this is that most county's that have a top level puller near them want those pullers at their event to help draw butts into the seats. My county had an HSTPA pull with a class we could have run put we had a GN event we had go to, they were very disappointed that we weren't there. Local top level pullers equal local spectators.

S'no Farmer

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Dick Morgan
I think the Todd and other pullers that hook mostly at the national level are caught between a rock and a hard place. Local fair boards need tractors to fill classes, fans want to see good quality equipment at a show and local shows have to survive. It's so easy to say that no national pullers should ever go to a local event but that's going to kill the sport completely. I don't think a national puller should make every event but they need to support grassroots pulling. If local pulling dies National pulling will be not be far behind it.

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OH1979er

I think the Todd and other pullers that hook mostly at the national level are caught between a rock and a hard place. Local fair boards need tractors to fill classes, fans want to see good quality equipment at a show and local shows have to survive. It's so easy to say that no national pullers should ever go to a local event but that's going to kill the sport completely. I don't think a national puller should make every event but they need to support grassroots pulling. If local pulling dies National pulling will be not be far behind it.

What you are advocating for is exactly what has killed grass roots local level pulling. Todd mentioned that RN guys feel like prize money is being taken and that sentiment is very true. So what has happened is to compete locally, guys have spent at the GN level knowing the elite may show up. It has driven costs so sky high that there is very little new blood coming into the sport and local guys who were trying to do it on a budget have quit altogether. Look no further than the R2 LSS class. 10 years ago there were 13 hooks in R2 for those guys, now there are none. Take a look at the heavy SS class. Those are the classes I am personally most familiar with. For the sport to grow there has to be distinct levels. For far to long the great whites were allowed to play in the farm pond, it drove costs sky high for the local guy, because let’s face it, no true competitor wants to get embarrassed, so guys either spent beyond their means to try and keep up or quit. So because NTPA chose not to do anything and just let classes die they are now filling their schedule and paying the bills with single charger diesel only classes. You can still see good quality equipment, but if that means the biggest and the baddest, that has killed at least two classes at the local level.

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OG


I think the Todd and other pullers that hook mostly at the national level are caught between a rock and a hard place. Local fair boards need tractors to fill classes, fans want to see good quality equipment at a show and local shows have to survive. It's so easy to say that no national pullers should ever go to a local event but that's going to kill the sport completely. I don't think a national puller should make every event but they need to support grassroots pulling. If local pulling dies National pulling will be not be far behind it.

What you are advocating for is exactly what has killed grass roots local level pulling. Todd mentioned that RN guys feel like prize money is being taken and that sentiment is very true. So what has happened is to compete locally, guys have spent at the GN level knowing the elite may show up. It has driven costs so sky high that there is very little new blood coming into the sport and local guys who were trying to do it on a budget have quit altogether. Look no further than the R2 LSS class. 10 years ago there were 13 hooks in R2 for those guys, now there are none. Take a look at the heavy SS class. Those are the classes I am personally most familiar with. For the sport to grow there has to be distinct levels. For far to long the great whites were allowed to play in the farm pond, it drove costs sky high for the local guy, because let’s face it, no true competitor wants to get embarrassed, so guys either spent beyond their means to try and keep up or quit. So because NTPA chose not to do anything and just let classes die they are now filling their schedule and paying the bills with single charger diesel only classes. You can still see good quality equipment, but if that means the biggest and the baddest, that has killed at least two classes at the local level.

While all this is true it is also true that all these single turbo diesel classes that have been created the last decade should have remained at lower level events. If you want to compete at the professional level upgrade to those classes. SF, LPS, LLSS, LLPS, etc etc should never been able to compete at GN/SN events. If the goal is to have a distinct top level, no event should mix lower level classes with GN for the same admission price. I say all this with the idea that an elite level should have been the goal, it's not wrong for it not to be the goal, just admit as much.

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OG
The failure of the NTPA over the long term has been its inability to set up a Professional or Championship level of pulling that is distinct and separate from the county fair level. The economics wouldn't allow it when they couldn't keep their sponsors. In the years since the loss of Copenhagen/Skoal et al they have been forced to survive on the charity of the participants and an ever increasing base of "members". Easiest way to keep adding to the pool (member fees) is to keep adding different types of classes and diluting the sport even further. TNT was close to getting Championship level pulling off the ground in the '90's and I think Lucas will/has made great headway in this regard now. The NTPA had a great opportunity here, in the '70's and 80's and just never were able to capitalize on their head start in brand building. Those days are gone. The NTPA's niche is volume now, lots of classes and lots of low level events, I don't see much of a way for that to change now. If you wish to see a professional level of pulling really get rolling root for PPL to takeover some of the NTPA's remaining large events.

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patches
During the 80s ntpa had 39 member states if I remember right

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The Original Michael
I had to look on the NTPA website and found "Member State Contacts" under the Contact section.

Hoosier State Tractor Pullers Association (Indiana)
Wisconsin Tractor Pullers Association
Wolverine Pullers, Inc. (Michigan)
United Pullers of the Carolinas (North & South Carolina)
United Pullers of Minnesota
United Pullers of Iowa
Ohio Truck & Tractor Pullers Association

Of these, Iowa's website shows 3 events for 2021, all RN events.
Ohio doesn't even have a website. Is it even a real Member State or one in name only?



Now, let's look at PPL:

Xcaliber Pulling Association
Badger State Tractor Pullers
Carolina Truck and Tractor Pullers
East Coast Pro Pulling
Empire State Pullers
Mid-South Puller Association
Nebraska Bush Pullers
New York Tractor Pullers Association
Ohio State Tractor Pullers Association
Power Pulling Productions
Shenandoah Valley Tractor Pullers Association
Southern Pullers Association

I count 12.

Even giving NTPA the most charitable benefit of the doubt, it's PPL 12, NTPA 7 for Member State associations.

These groups are obviously getting something out of their PPL affiliation or the wouldn't maintain their status with PPL.

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Puller 7
There are many NTPA pulls across Ohio. Region 2 was so big it had to split into east and west divisions of r2. Again why bash the organization that laid the ground work and blazed the trail for so many to follow? Instead of bashing them just go pull somewhere else. Apparently they have done something right! The naysayers have preached the eulogy for the NTPA for the past few years, and guess what? They are still standing! Are they perfect, or could they improve, or make some positive changes? Absolutely, but Doc asked for suggestions, but all people want to do is bash and criticize. The only suggestions anyone ever states, is give away the farm. Unless you have seen or know the details of the financials of the Organization, then you are talking out of school and are thinking only about the man in the mirror. I wish NTPA and all the other pulling organizations worldwide nothing but the best. I'm thankful for each and every one of them. "Thats all I'm going to say about that" Forest Gump

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bandit496
I will address the splitting...because not all pullers in a class nowadays want to compete at 20 or so events. In the modern world of high performance motors (at least alky style, cannot comment on diesel), 20 runs put a lot of strain on the internals. Throw in a pulloff or two and with warmup times (heat cycles), you are looking at replacing rods ($1200-2000) just to complete the season. That isn't even including the travel time and wear and tear on trailer and tow. Not splitting and after a competitor has lost the opportunity for a championship, the drive to go to those later events diminishes. Who wins in that scenario....certainly not the fans or the promoter? Even split, at times some show don't have quality numbers. Sorry, folks, but pulling is evolving and not everything stays the same as the glory days. Baseball, football, circle track, drag racing, snowmobiling..they all had glory days, but today not so good. So, they all had "bad" business plans? One other question I have.......can someone please tell me where the NTPA or WPI is lining anyone in that organizations pockets? As a side note, the financial model of the two primary organizations is different i.e. how the managers of the two are compensated is entirely different is just one example.

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bandit496
how many drag racing venues still operate; circle tracks?