07:29:02am, Saturday, April 27, 2024
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Unlimited Mod sled problems
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Moderator Registered: 03/25/2008 Posts: 1,446 |
I'm not sure there's a class and tractor pulling that I don't like. Having said that the topic now is the unlimited mod and the situation with stopping the sled. There really isn't any good answer to this problem. The more they add horsepower to the class the bigger the problem becomes. As Todd said sometimes the unlimited mods do not put on a good show. They're slow off the line and they have to stop them quick and hard and they can't use all of that tremendous horsepower that they have. I've written so many times that when they add horsepower then they have to add more weight to the sled and the show is the same. Dick Morgan www.PULLOFF.com Independent Pulling News |
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Re: Unlimited Mod sled problems
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Great discussion thread and definitely worth having some conversations on.
As a fan, I LOVE the unlimited class. Easily my favorite class. One thing that attracts me to it is the adjective: Unlimited. I want to keep as close to that concept as possible. 7500 mods are mods. PPL Super mods are super mods. But only unlimiteds can use the ol' "Run what ya brung, and hope ya brung enough" moniker. That being said, absolutely, when is enough enough? Or better yet, when is it too much? I think the best solution is to simply leave the class alone, and let the sport fix itself. And I think it IS fixing itself. To prove this, let's look at 2nd Degree Burn. This tractor was purpose built as a light unlimited. 2 engine mod. But for the 2020 NFMS, they say, "what the heck" and strap a 3rd motor on it. It DOMINATES! Fast forward to Tomah, WI 2021 season, and I see this tractor coming off the trailer with 3 engines. It is only going to compete in the 7500lb modified class. I ask the driver about it. He tells me, "She seems to be pretty happy with 3." Later that year, this same team shows up in Chape Hill, TN competing in the Unlimited class. They have now put screw blowers on, but are only running 3 engines. At least 2 other competitors in this class are running 5 engine mods. Several running 4 with screws. 2nd Degree Burn AND Money Pit All Screwed Up, run 3 engines with screws and perform amazing! I talk to the drivers after the pull and we discuss how 3 engines allows more driver control, more moveable weight, and essentially that less is more. You are no longer essentially driving on ice out of the hole. Get the sled moving and keep it moving. So now the big debate is do you run with 3, 4, or 5? Do you want HP, hole shots, or moveable weight. I know at least one other Unlimited in this class has NO moveable weight. What did we see at NFMS this year? A lot of guys going toward the 3 engine setup. I think this class will correct itself. Bauer already moved the placement of his 5th engine, how long until he removes it permanently? Do Uncle Sam and The Gambler follow Suit? Though Gambler is running 5 chevys, which is interesting in and of itself. I think the class will correct itself. That, or just knock weight off. Make it 7800lb unlimited. Just don't limit the HP. That takes the fun out of the class from my viewpoint. Then it's just another mod class. But not Unlimited. |
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Re: Unlimited Mod sled problems
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Paull
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We need(in MHO), more Driver's classes, where the driver has control of the unit, not the other way around. Watching a rocket go down the track is fun, but just a boring concept with a person strapped to the rocket, now let's make the driver responsible for the power ratio to speed, and pull with regard to traction and needed throttle position, makes for a better show. All classes have potential for full pulls with the proper sled setting. Make it feasible for the drivers to actually show true talents.Two wheel drives and diesel truck and Mountain motor four wheel drive classes are already "driving" to half track sometimes before the rocket lifts off. |
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Re: Unlimited Mod sled problems
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Fan 2
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No class requires more driving ability than the Unlimited They can't even drive them the way they did 5 years ago with all the advancements in power. Was on the phone with one of them yesterday and he was saying he going to have to learn to be more patient than he used to be with the throttle. His tuneup and setup notes from 5 years ago are almost useless it's changed so much. |
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Re: Unlimited Mod sled problems
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Registered: 03/17/2009 Posts: 461 |
Let the drivers adapt and leave the sleds as they are. Simple answer to a problem. If the drivers have issues driving, then they need to learn how to drive or maybe reduce hp a little to get the machine to hook up. Not a sled issue |
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Re: Unlimited Mod sled problems
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Registered: 03/28/2021 Posts: 61 |
Agree with you Eitel very well written post. Class probly should be left alone. very interesting the different approaches big vs smaller hp. I hope purser doesnt back the power down because the time he got it to the track was one of the most spectacular things i have ever seen |
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Re: Unlimited Mod sled problems
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Registered: 02/17/2013 Posts: 120 |
There’s two threads here trying to accomplish the same thing. Wouldn’t it work to lower the hitch height? As power increases you know they regear to counter that and so if you lower the hitch height a 1/2”-3/4”-1” or more to make them essentially blow their tires off that would be an easy/cheap problem solver would it not? |
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Re: Unlimited Mod sled problems
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xxx
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Another poster has a great idea, raise the chain on the sled to start out better, then at 100 feet have it go lower, problem solved. |
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Re: Unlimited Mod sled problems
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Registered: 02/17/2013 Posts: 120 |
Not a bad idea but that will end up costing a lot to figure out, make and it’s something else mechanical on the sled to fail that could have catastrophic failure and consequence that no one should have to deal with. The hitches are already there, has that kind of adjustment and is more reliable. |
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Re: Unlimited Mod sled problems
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Pull fan
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Raising the chain on the sled will Not make it start out better, it will only make the tractor burn rubber,, and lowering it at 100 feet will only make matters worse when it comes to stopping the pulling vehicle. |
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Re: Unlimited Mod sled problems
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What about purposefully altering soil composition and track building? Pack it tight and up the clay percentage in the first 200 feet (speed track) and then loosen it up, incorporate more black soil/ sand in the final 100 feet. Mound City, MO's track is a little bit this way. It's why Pro Stocks (power pullers) and Light Supers (speed pullers) both compliment well there. The farther they go, the more they dig to the ground. Do you set up with momentum or power? The looser the soil is, the quicker they stop at the end.
You could also take a page out of Brandenburg, KY's book. Run the tracks up hill. That'll slow em down and stop them. |
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Re: Unlimited Mod sled problems
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Registered: 08/16/2021 Posts: 306 |
Anybody who watched the Thursday night class at Bowling Green last year would agree the Unlimited Mods require a ton of driving ability |
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Re: Unlimited Mod sled problems
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Registered: 08/16/2021 Posts: 306 |
The screw blowers totally change how these guys drive. As do the new Mitas tires. |
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Re: Unlimited Mod sled problems
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Registered: 02/17/2013 Posts: 120 |
I don’t know if the mod guys have the technology in the clutch system like the top fuels but they may have to figure out how to incorporate the clutching system off of a top fuel/funny car and introduce different stages of the clutch as they go down the track. |
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Re: Unlimited Mod sled problems
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Registered: 04/04/2008 Posts: 630 |
I know it grates on people's nerves to talk about longer tracks but do believe this would make for a better show with the Unlimited Mods. Think about the excitement at the Enderle last year, good dirt long track great excitement. Just because these ideas are being talked about doesn't mean people don't like the class I personally love and appreciate the pullers and the tractors, I want them to put on the best show possible. Yes I know not every venue has the luxury of a long track, I also know some people HATE the idea of a long track. I'll shut up now.
S'no Farmer |
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Re: Unlimited Mod sled problems
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Fan 2
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It's too bad all the tracks aren't like Wellington, Fort Recovery, Enderle, and the south track at Bowling Green as far as the quality of the dirt. That would help. If the weather cooperates they generally always put on a good show at these venues. |
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Re: Unlimited Mod sled problems
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Registered: 03/17/2009 Posts: 461 |
Longer tracks aren't the answer. Just turns it into more of a race then pull. Everyone will just put bigger gears in and try and go faster making a bigger safety risk for things to get crossed. The liability in it far outweighs the benefits. No reason to change sleds and tracks for one class. Let the ONE class adapt to conditions, don't make the hole sport adapt to one class. |
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Re: Unlimited Mod sled problems
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I Agree
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I agree 1000% with you..The Unlimited Mods need a 370-400 ft track to look the best...Let them get up and run and stop them at 330-360 ft..In 2021 our state level 6000 Mods pulled 340-370 ft several times and the crowds loved it...My local track is prepped to 380 ft. |
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Re: Unlimited Mod sled problems
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Moderator Registered: 07/06/2008 Posts: 1,347 |
One thought I had mentioned before for marketing purposes is to keep a shorter track for the other classes (320 or whatever) but allow the unlimiteds to run 350', with the explanation that the tractors are so powerful, the additional track length is needed. I don't know what the HP is for a current, top of the line NHRA top fuel or funny car vs NTPA unlimited mod, but assuming the 4/5 engine mod still makes more hp than a single engine nitro dragster or FC, then in addition to "The heaviest motorsport on wheels," the unlimited could also be marketed as "the most powerful motorsport on wheels." (also, I would bet the top SSO/Unlimited SS tractor engines make more hp than the alcohol TAFC/TAD engines, though I do not know what hp an injected nitro TAD car makes). Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 03/30/2022 05:55AM by The Original Michael. |
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Re: Unlimited Mod sled problems
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billee,
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They are talking in the 8-10 thousand HP range, know by the calculations of weight speed/ time. |
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Re: Unlimited Mod sled problems
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MoreHP
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Some want to report more than that range, however, many times it is just hype. Hemi's used to be 2200 HP, now the announcers are saying much more, ---- it's a handful for sure at any rated number, Vories blew the tires off much more than he hooked well, -now three engines are working well. Few Humans are ever satisfied with what they Have. |
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Re: Unlimited Mod sled problems
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Fan 2
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There isn't one class in pulling where the competitors aren't trying to make more power every year. Don't see the problem there. No one is making them do it. It is called competition. It also has brought the sport to where it is, although reading this board you would think the sport is doomed. |
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Re: Unlimited Mod sled problems
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Much More
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2200 HP was years ago..In todays world a big Hemi with a 8-71 is 2500 HP,with a 14-71 its 3000-3200HP,and with a screw blower is 3500-3800 HP...This is from Adam Koester....I've also heard Joe Eder and others give these figures....So a well tuned 3 engine Unlimited Mod with screw blowers is making at least 10,000 horsepower with weight to move....Boyds had 10,000 HP in PPL trim and well over that with the NTPA... [www.enginebuildermag.com] |
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Re: Unlimited Mod sled problems
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Carlsson
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First of all, I like to agree what Oly wrote, longer tracks mean faster pulls, with a tremendous amount of risk. Well Michael, to explain that it's necessary to have a long track to stop the unlims is just BS to the fans because it just isn't correct. We all, and most of the true fans, know that most sleds are able to stop the most powerful vehicle, even on short indoor tracks. It all depends on the amount of deadload, perhaps even on the pan, and the transfer speed of the box. Of course pullers didn't like it because this slow and short pulls are eating up their tires, but it's a practicable way to get them stopped far before the 330' mark. The aspect of maybe compare TP with drag racing doesn't seem to be a suitable way of advertisement. The latest TF cars nowaday can reach something between 10500-13000HP , several times measured with torque gauge equipment between clutch and diff. I guess most TA cars are around half of that values. So, with 4x moderate alc Hemis at around 3000HP per unit it goes to 12000HP, same for 3 high tuned Hemis of close to 4000HP per engine. So, even in best cases, this all only match on the same level, but not really much more than the TF guys. You already need 5 moderate ones to get 14-15000HP or 4 high end beasts to gain it even further. And with what effect? Almost nonsense, because in most times you can't use the overamount of power to trade it into distance. The proposal of a dynamic hitch height at the sleds side sounds interesting. What if a spindle controlled mech can vary the height, in an equally dependency alike the box movement, from lowest possible attachment point at the pan on the starting line, to a particular max value of e.g. 4-5" at the point when the box meet its final front position?!? Accelerating fast, but before reaching a reasonable level of velo, decreasing the effectiveness of the pulling vehicle by changing the chain angle. Is it worth to think any longer about it, or will this also ruin the tires in long term? |
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Re: Unlimited Mod sled problems
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Paull
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10-12 Thousand HP is going to ruin tires no matter what, spinning hard, if you have 3-5 engines, -what is a pair of tires, - lunch money !!!! |
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Re: Unlimited Mod sled problems
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Registered: 02/23/2017 Posts: 137 |
I love to go as fast as possible with whatever class is running, but do y'all have any idea how hard that box hits the front with 10-12 weights in it running 35 mph? Or what happens when an 8,000 lb tractor locks up a rearend with a 55,000 lb sled riding about 3' off the back edge of the wheelie bars??? Just food for thought from the back side of the hook.... |
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Re: Unlimited Mod sled problems
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Registered: 04/04/2008 Posts: 630 |
Carlsson,
Have you witnessed an unlimited class where the sled stops them at 300', there is NO excitement from the crowd VS a hook where they go 350' + and the crowd goes wild? Why is a long track and some speed so dangerous? We often go down the track at 35 MPH in RN2, I never feel in danger. A sled operator would need to verify this but my guess that if they go that fast in the Heavy Unlimited it would take 350' to stop them hence a good show VS going much slower and stopping at 310'. Just my opinion and we all know what that's worth. S'no Farmer |
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Re: Unlimited Mod sled problems
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Another4.1
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Personal, I think we miss a big part of this conversation. The crowed and and show is the most important part of a pull. No fans = no pulls. I know this has been mentioned but the 330-350 foot track and the “drag race” put on the beat show I have ever seen. Just one man’s opinion |
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Re: Unlimited Mod sled problems
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Todd,
you're absolutely right with saying if we want fast pulls, we need longer distances. And obviously it's a matter of fact that the crowd prefers fast thrilling pulls instead of slower passes. It's a bit in the old rome empire with their arena fights, gladiators against lions. The crowd loved to see the catastrophe to come. Most motorsport fans are a bit, more or less, speed junkies. The faster something moves, the more attractive it seems. Personally you didn't feel any danger during your pulls. And that's okay. In the early 50s the British grand prix driver Stirling Moss said to his his father, when he mentioned to wear at least a sufficient helmet, that helmets are only for wimps. The real fast guys, alike Fangio, are only wearing soft leather caps. One or two years later he almost died by an accident and end his grand prix career. One thing for sure, the faster something moves, the higher the consequences of failures during that motion. It matters if you're travelling with 8mph or 16mph when you fell of your bikes saddle. A suddenly locked ring/pinion, on a mod puller, at around 240-280' with 30-35mph, is a hell of a recipe for getting overrun by the sled. Locked planetaries will lead to a quick sideway turn, which probably lead to almost the same result. A few years ago, this guy with his IH smoker, I can't remember correctly, maybe at KY invitationals or elsewhere, grenades the block so hard (even with half exposed clutch) that the subframe almost collapsed. Just think a second if this happens at 30+mph. If a vehicle breaks in half at this velo, right infront of the drivers pedals, the sled will crush him to a compact bunch of metal and flesh. And yes, we didn't see exactly this situation until right now, but it is so unlikely to happen soon? I guess with increased number of fast pull, and reasonable additional boundary effects and failure, the statistical probability will show it to us someday. Honestly, I've no problem with that either. It's a pullers decision if he/she risk their lives. As long as no spectators are affected, everything is fine. It's up to you, what you think and feel when someone of your drivers guild get killed by an accident during a high speed pull. Take a second and think about the very next driver who is probably a good friend to you. A lot of drivers which are also preferring fast pulls are the old dudes with tremendous amount of experience. Most will tell that the also feel okay with the whole situation because they can rely on their experience, fast reactions etc. Probably it isn't worth to think about younger and less experienced drivers to protect themselves against stepping into unnecessary risky actions. |
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Re: Unlimited Mod sled problems
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Much More
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If pulling has gotten this dangerous then maybe we should all just stay at home...Do we need to go back to the days of a 6-8 MPH pace tractor? Most of us pullers know that things can happen the instant we go full throttle...My worst fear would be a sled malfunction or tossing parts in to the crowd...Years ago a puller in Europe died because of a sled that was outdated.Theres lots of what ifs in pulling and in every other motorsport....How would you like to take a TF dragster on a 3.65 second pass at 330 mph...10-15 years ago a woman in a top alky dragster at Tulsa,OK stood it up at half track and spun around (knocked her out) and went full throttle back to the starting line killing both her and her son whom was in the support vehicle...Some times crazy things happen that are beyond anyones control..
I can only think of 3 pullers that have died from a pulling accident and these were all years ago....Two were in Kansas and one was one in Iowa...One of the Kansas deaths was from a sled malfunction...One puller died in Pennsylvania at his own farm when a plunger stuck open and he rolled the tractor..These were all before the days of cages and 5 point harness-etc...With cages these pullers would have lived to pull another day...I think that pulling has a pretty darn good safety record and we keep making more safety rules. I'm not sure how many pulling spectators have been killed but I think its 2 or less..One was from a exploding flywheel. |
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Re: Unlimited Mod sled problems
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Registered: 03/25/2008 Posts: 2,526 |
It's not about pace tractors. It's also not about having 60 mph passes. It's about finding and staying within a reasonable range of speed and distance. Sure 350' is exciting. How many years will it be until a 350' track is just "normal". When that happens a 350' pass will just be mundane and it will take a 400' pull to fire up the crowd. Then what?
Drag racing shortened the track and lowered the top speed. Does drag racing suck now? No, it's still just as exciting to see. Faster and fast speeds and longer and longer tracks are just temporary solutions. Jake Morgan Owner, PULLOFF.COM Independent Pulling News This page is a free service. The cost is covered out of my pocket. It takes a great deal of time and a fair amount of money to keep this website going. Donations for: photos, classified ads, forum discussion, etc... are appreciated. Side Note: We are no longer accepting PayPal donations. They have changed their terms of service and stated they would fine PayPal users for spreading "misinformation" and "hate, violence, racial or other forms of intolerance that is discriminatory". PayPal did not provide definitions for some of these vague terms. Woke corporate policies regarding "misinformation" could result in an automatic fine of $2,500 which would have been removed directly from the customer’s PayPal account. PayPal did backdown from some of their policies but quietly implemented portions of them in later terms of service. A financial institute has no right to monitor social media accounts or speech. This is unacceptable and I'll no longer do business with PayPal. |
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Re: Unlimited Mod sled problems
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Registered: 04/04/2008 Posts: 1,522 |
Sitting in the bleachers when tracks were 300 and a vehicle blew past the cone it was thrilling,then tracks went to 320,now all pulls were not as exciting,then few years go by and vehicles get better and start to blow by the cone regularly,not nearly as exciting.now move the cone out to 500 ft and itll be slow and boring for 20 years |
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Re: Unlimited Mod sled problems
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Registered: 04/03/2016 Posts: 772 |
I would like for some sled operators to chime in on how they feel about all of this. |
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Re: Unlimited Mod sled problems
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You don't have a clue
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HP. You don't know what you are talking about. 80,000 is 80,000 doesn't matter what axle you have |
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Re: Unlimited Mod sled problems
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When someone has enough power to consistently get on top of, and not get ahold of the track, the too much power question should answer itself. Speed kills power, but I'm guessing if you asked a majority of Mod. / Unl. pullers if they want to go slower, they would not. Slower speeds usually equate to more driveline torque. |
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Re: Unlimited Mod sled problems
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Moderator Registered: 03/25/2008 Posts: 1,446 |
That's one of the problems with the sport. We believe that more HP translates to more speed which in turn makes for a better show. If the logic that more HP equates to better show then 2000 HP vehicle should go down the track about 20 MPH and a 10,000HP vehicle should go down the track at 100 MPH. However with proper sled settings the different in actual speed is no more that 6 to 8 MPH difference. In reality when the pullers makes more HP (speed) then the sled operator just puts in more weight and the show (speed) is the same. A lot of money invested for no show quality gain. Dick Morgan www.PULLOFF.com Independent Pulling News |
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Re: Unlimited Mod sled problems
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Posts: 158 |
Dick, I don't know what show you are watching if you think there is no quality of show difference between a single engine mod (2000-3000hp as you stated) and an unlimited Mod. |
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Re: Unlimited Mod sled problems
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Moderator Registered: 03/25/2008 Posts: 1,446 |
Please don't twist my words. I don't believe I ever said that there is no difference between a single engine mod and a 4-5 engine mod. To carry your logic farther the Unlimited Mod is the most exciting, then the Mod class,, then Open SS, DSS, LSS, PS, TWD, Mini Mod , FWD and last SF. What I believe is that every class has it's fans that would disagree with that logic. What I said was every time that the HP goes up the weight in the sled increases and the show is the same. Dick Morgan www.PULLOFF.com Independent Pulling News Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/05/2022 06:13AM by Dick Morgan. |
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Re: Unlimited Mod sled problems
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Fan 2
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No one is "twisting" your words. Your argument makes no sense. With that thinking the Mods would still be running naturally aspirated motors with 4 inch cleats cleats on the tires resulting in a six foot high pile of dirt in front of the sled at the end of the pull. |
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Re: Unlimited Mod sled problems
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Moderator Registered: 03/25/2008 Posts: 1,446 |
I never said to go back in time. I will say it slower this time. When HP goes up in the Unlimited class they just add more weight to the sled. Same show. Dick Morgan www.PULLOFF.com Independent Pulling News |
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Re: Unlimited Mod sled problems
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So Dick would you be the first to back down your program to have less horsepower? We all know they add weight to stop the Unlimited class vs the mod class. I do believe it is still a pulling competition and if they think they can win with less horsepower, then let them! Red Fox has won a lot of pulls in the mini class with less hp, but that doesn't mean everyone else should step down in HP to match them. Let the Unlimited class alone...we like it! |
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Re: Unlimited Mod sled problems
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Registered: 08/27/2019 Posts: 212 |
Can't argue with that. In the past , when HP increased, the tractor weight had to be "decreased", so.... If todays crowd wants to see the "drag race" at current speeds as it is today, then I see tractor weights being reduced again , but that's just me. |
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Re: Unlimited Mod sled problems
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Fan 2
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We would still be "back in time" if the pullers felt the way you do. That is the point! So why start now? Your not paying their bills, if they want to advance, why do you care? |
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Re: Unlimited Mod sled problems
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Moderator Registered: 03/25/2008 Posts: 1,446 |
Let me guess,, you have some financial interest in the Unlimited Mod class. Why else would you be so concerned about the class? Why do you care if I care? Why are you concerned that I also have an opinion? I care because the class and the sport has become a " out spend" your fellow puller and the end results is shrinking numbers in all national pulling. If you can't see that number are, and have been for years dropping for years then you certainly are not a student of the sport. The Unlimited Mod class is not the only class that has in recent years had rules written to try and reign in cost. PS, DSS, Lt. PS, why, because leadership saw a need to help to keep numbers healthy in those classes. So once again Why are you concerned that I also have an opinion about this topic. Dick Morgan www.PULLOFF.com Independent Pulling News |
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Re: Unlimited Mod sled problems
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?
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Dick welcome to fight/argument/discussion ---- Lewis has said for yrs sled setting can be set to make any class run fast or drag'm down quick --- people dont listen to reason !!! Same thing with components being allowed in LLSS --- for some unknown reason everyone wants to change what works !!!! Its ridiculous !!!! |
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Re: hauling weight/DOT
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Moderator Registered: 07/06/2008 Posts: 1,347 |
Correct if wrong, but aren't most or all unlimited hooks at double tracks now? I ask because the amount of weight required to stop one exceeds the amount a semi can legally haul (sled + ballast).
I started another thread about changing sled designs and someone thought of having chain height/angle change during the run. My question is: If someone designed such a sled innovation, would one semi legally be able to haul enough weight to stop an unlimited IF the chain height/angle were able to alter during the pass? If yes, that would be one practical point in favor of trying this. Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/01/2022 01:27AM by The Original Michael. |
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Pulling never looks down the road
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Moderator Registered: 03/25/2008 Posts: 1,446 |
One of the on going problems with the sport is that leadership never, ever looks down the road to see what impact and ramifications rules will make. The Unlimited Mods used to hook on a 300 foot track, then 310, 320 ,330 and now we want 350. When does it end, if they get a 350 foot track and keep making more and more HP then we will need to go to a 370 foot track and on and on. There are a couple problems with this scenario. One being that in a lot of places there is not sufficient shut down run off to make the pull safe. Two, if there are only a few places that can support a 350 track what about those places that have the Unlimited Mods and have to settle for 320, now we are back to a potential poor show and disappointed fans. While I value all the ideas on what can be done with the sled the real easy fix is to either drop the HP, drop the weight or drop the draw bar, anything else is just really a band-aid on a problem. I, for one would like to see the leadershipless of pulling take a 5 year look at rules and classes and not a 5 day look. Lets think just a little farther down the road than what is pullings norm. Dick Morgan www.PULLOFF.com Independent Pulling News |
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Re: Pulling never looks down the road
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Registered: 02/19/2009 Posts: 526 |
I have to agree with you Dick. Being a certified tech official with PPL and Badger State. Some of these rules contradict themselves. Like OEM transmission , clutch and house connection stock location, but then a few lines down to our have auxiliary transmission may be used. What happened to stock location? So when you look 5 years down the road and someone yells that's not right , it's right there to see . The guys bitch that that shouldn't have happened. In my years of pulling guys always have looked back instead of forward. |
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Case in point
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Moderator Registered: 07/06/2008 Posts: 1,347 |
** cough cough ** EFI ** cough cough ** Also, if #s are going to trend in the direction of shrinking in some classes, then combo classes should be discussed. A FPP RWYB-inspired combo truck class is a good idea. Depending on what happens in a few years with light/limited Pro and Super Farm, a combo may at some point be warranted. Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/01/2022 02:51AM by The Original Michael. |
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Re: hauling weight/DOT
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Ill Ryan
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If you're having a big enough event that the big mods are there, you're going to have a back up sled just in case. The second sled will help out with weights, so is it really that big a deal? |
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Re: hauling weight/DOT
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HP
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No problem at all with weight.
Not a single sled hauling semi has a lift axle on it yet. Could also put a strong arm axle on the sled. Not only for the axle weight, but to help with exterior bridge length. And, for the ignorant, a lift axle on a semi is fine for just hauling more weight! Load doesn't need to be indivisible. Dump trucks can dump off excess weight, so only for extra weight. Livestock trucks with 3 axle trailers, and a lift axle on the tractor, weight only. Too heavy, walk a cow or two out of the trailer. Cement trucks use strong arms on back AND lift axles, weight only, if they are heavy, poop out some concrete, and go. So please don't be ignorant and start babbling about lift axles are only for indivisible loads. Make yourself look ignorant. |
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Re: hauling weight/DOT
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Moderator Registered: 03/19/2018 Posts: 663 |
At the risk of making myself look ignorant, would a sled, so equipped have to poop out a block or 2 at a rest area or something if found over weight? I don't know for sure. I feel dumber trying to figure out this.
CP |
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Re: hauling weight/DOT
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Just Sayin’
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Lift axles on cement/dump trucks help with straight truck individually Lessening the weight on individual axles depending on where load is placed. In a combination scenario, you’re still only allowed 80,000 lbs. Sometimes lift axles hurt you as you’re just adding to your light weight. The only advantage to add a drop axle to a tractor is to spread the weight over 3 rather than 2 and 5th wheel placement is still critical.
Not to mention there’s axle spacing, tire size/width, etc. that still are in play. |
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Re: hauling weight/DOT
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!?*&^
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And my dear friends, pullers, drivers, and knowit alls, -these rules and regs are all written in stone on many pages of decayed wood, However each individual officer of the DOT interpret these said rules and many pages of regs on their own ability to apply when they stop, you. Not many agree on most cases where some discretion can be a factor on your freedom to continue down the byways. Being friendly, not overly aggressive and or mouthy helps. Many times an officer will not be sure how the Law really applies, so grants some latitude. Blatant attempts to avoid the intent of the written Law usually are met with some resistance from the Smokie. In my semi with puller on a flat bed at the weigh station with exempt farm plates an officer told me I had to be Commercial because my ten cent plastic trophy I had won was in view, I handed it to Him and said it was very valuable and worth a lot, his next words where to get the He** out of there. LOL |
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Re: hauling weight/DOT, to Just sayin.
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HP
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You are WRONG on being limited to 80,000.
You can be licensed for more, and allowed to be heavier, that is where your axle spacing comes into play. It isn't easy, and it isn't free, but the extra axles do in fact allow the combination to weigh over 80,000. Can you say "Heavy Haulers"? Totally agree with ?#×-; , you run into various interpretations from many different officers, but the charts on number of axles , and axle spacing isn't THAT hard to read. Just Sayin should get one and study it and learn before spewing wrong information. Oh, and the strong arm on the sled would look dumb and be a pain in the butt. But would still work. |
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Re: hauling weight/DOT, to Just sayin.
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Registered: 07/22/2013 Posts: 80 |
Those are permitted loads, and that is from point A to B and nothing else while under load, should they do something to break the law such as speed and get caught the permits can be torn up and made invalid, then they can be fined over 80K. Plenty of Michigan trucks dropping into Ohio with multi axle setups, but to do it legally it’s permit only, other wise the limit is 80K gross no matter the axles. Not to mention every state varies in its rules on weight. |
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Re: hauling weight/DOT
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You don't have a clue
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You are the one being ignorant. Bet you live in a western Midwest state that allows a higher weight only in that state for things like farm use. Need to look up bridge laws. It's the reason most of the dump trucks and cement trucks run a bunch of axels. They are still limited to the local state weight which most are still 80,000 lbs. |
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Re: hauling weight/DOT, to, you don't have a clue
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HP
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So, how do those super loads get moved?
Yes they need permits and gobs of axles, but they weigh well over 80,000, so stop being stupid. |
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Re: hauling weight/DOT, to, you don't have a clue
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plum krazy
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Permits only for heavy and many roads less than the 80K, no matter how many axles,and as stated above only thing that matters is that person checking you that moment, that interpretation , no matter what the law says, that moment is a judgment call, Many times I see oversize loads with escort, other times not, and permitted loads have strict restrictions on times hours and locations to travel. Each state is unique and Federal sometimes supersedes, and others not, -VERY CONFUSING FOR ALL INVLOVED. A very high percent of the pullers going to events are in non compliance with many issues, loose chains, weak chains, improper chaining methods, weights not covered or even contained, - the four point hook rule is the safest, with slack between the same chain two point hook.and over on axles, and gross weight rules. |
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Re: hauling weight/DOT, to, you don't have a clue
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Just Sayin’
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I do understand the laws, pretty darn well in fact. 80,000 lbs is maximum weight for combination vehicle WITHOUT a permit - and that’s FEDERAL law. Permits would be required in each individual state and can be one way or round trip. Back in the day, 10-15 years ago, I ran loads that even required State Police escort. In the past, I drove regional heavy haul trucks and trailers with 12-15 axles total.
And you NEVER want to have a DOT officer guessing or interpreting laws. At that point, they’ll find “something”. You can’t continue to make the sleds heavier to transport - it’s not an financial option for the sled operators. I wonder if someone like Vaughn Bauer isn’t already trying to reinvent the wheel as far as sled design. |
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Re: Unlimited Mod sled problems
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Registered: 03/25/2008 Posts: 2,526 |
Why all the hate and negativity? You’re all just a bunch of complainers. The Unlimited Mod class doesn’t have a HP problem. Just leave them alone. I mean sure they one-wheel way too often. Sure the class is one of the most inconsistent classes regarding show quality. Sure even the guys that love the class imply that it has problems but won’t actually admit to them but are still proposing solutions to a problem that they say doesn’t exist. Sure all that is true, but just ignore that. You guys are just too negative.
Load the wagon and let them put on a show. If that doesn’t work then just load the wagon heavier. If that doesn’t work then take weights out of the other sled. If that doesn’t work maybe they could pull two sleds at once. If that doesn’t work the problem is clearly the track length. It’s clearly too short for this class. Wait, never mind the problem is clearly the track speed, they need to go faster. Maybe longer and faster would help.. yeah, yeah that should solve it. When that doesn’t work just make it more longer, then more longerer, then more longerest and more longerester and then it will be fine… not that there’s a problem anyways you haters. Maybe the problem IS the sled afterall, maybe we need a new sled design: lets make a different chain length or maybe move the point for the chain height on the sled, maybe we can over-engineer a moving pivot/fulcrum point of the chain that changes as the vehicle goes down the track. Maybe we could put more axles on the sled so it can carry more weight to the pull. Maybe the sled could pull a chisel plow behind it. Maybe it’s the Unlimited Mod tractors themselves, but not their HP, clearly not that. let’s make the hitches lower… maybe we could make the hitches shorter… maybe we should put the hitch point in front of the rear axle. Not that there’s a problem in the class or anything. It’s clearly not a HP problem. Although maybe the class will self correct to 3-engines because of having too much HP, but lets not actually admit it’s a HP problem and fix it…let's just all acknowledge that 3 is a much cooler number than 4 or 5 (because of God's Trinity or maybe because we're American and we have 3 branches of government or something), but clearly 3 is better, cooler, more awesomer so it works better. Let's just let it self-correct so we don’t have to admit anything. Once the class self corrects lets puts more limits in the class but then we can still call it “Unlimited” because that names is cool and it makes us feel like it really is unlimited even though it’s not. The name makes me feel good. I love that name. It’s not a problem it’s just a drivers class. It’s an awesome drivers class and not many guys know how to drive them now with the extra HP… I mean you guys aren't saying the drivers suck or anything, just that they don't know how to drive. I mean it’s not a HP problem, it’s just that the drivers haven’t adapted to the new tires and the added extra torques and such of the more robust motors (clearly not a HP problem). Clearly the Unlimited Mod class doesn’t have a HP problem. Would you guys just stop whining and complaining and just leave them alone. The class is totally fine as it is. I blame the Morgan's for even talking about it. It's clearly the fault of this website that makes it a problem. I don't even read this page anymore because of all the negativity. It's always better to ignore problems and let them fix themselves instead of try to build something up and make it better. Stupid Morgan's, stupid website (unless it agrees with me, then I love it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!) I guess I just don't see the problem you guys are talking about. Jake Morgan Owner, PULLOFF.COM Independent Pulling News This page is a free service. The cost is covered out of my pocket. It takes a great deal of time and a fair amount of money to keep this website going. Donations for: photos, classified ads, forum discussion, etc... are appreciated. Side Note: We are no longer accepting PayPal donations. They have changed their terms of service and stated they would fine PayPal users for spreading "misinformation" and "hate, violence, racial or other forms of intolerance that is discriminatory". PayPal did not provide definitions for some of these vague terms. Woke corporate policies regarding "misinformation" could result in an automatic fine of $2,500 which would have been removed directly from the customer’s PayPal account. PayPal did backdown from some of their policies but quietly implemented portions of them in later terms of service. A financial institute has no right to monitor social media accounts or speech. This is unacceptable and I'll no longer do business with PayPal. |
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Re: Unlimited Mod sled problems
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Paull
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Jake, did you used to be one off the guys on the "RED AND GREEN " show, funny stuff right there, just saai'n. |
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Re: Unlimited Mod sled problems
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Red
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Come on Paull, get it right! It was the Red Green show. Not red And green. Lol |
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Re: Unlimited Mod sled problems
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Paull
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I have to apologize was laughing so hard ,-my milk flew out my nose splattered on the key board and my fingers slipped. |
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Re: Unlimited Mod sled problems
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Registered: 04/03/2016 Posts: 772 |
Going back to pulloffs would take care of alot of these problems but we all know how well that idea would go over! Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/03/2022 04:03PM by Supertiquer. |
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Re: Unlimited Mod sled problems
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Well said Jake. And I like to add that there is absolute NO amount of intersection between unlims and mini rods. They also don't have any kind of hp problems as well. It's pure randomness that each year several drivers got smacked, chassis are badly damaged, etc.
And I totally agree, #3 is much better than 2 or any other num, just remember G.Stone and his General #3 compared to the LTL mod. Arms race in tractor pulling?! That means you've to dig deep in your pockets, spend all into equipment and squeeze it that it's surely complete broken after 3-5 runs. If not, the stuff has been too robust and heavy (and therefor NOT competitive) or you have been too tentative to the equipment. What a waste of time. It is by far more ingenious to just open the pockets and put it all in the worst degree of efficiency for pulling distance. Sustainability is for the elder or poorer guys, which haven't the ingenuity to get their parts worn within a few hooks. Just take a look at this old man here [www.youtube.com] , complaining from 3:28 minute to 4:15 minute about his problems with self constructed and produced items. He wouldn't have that mess if he had bought the stuff from a third party right of the shelf. Maybe the ideal or paradigm for younger people shall be to find a method how to waste tons of dollars within seconds. |
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Re: Unlimited Mod sled problems
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Registered: 03/27/2008 Posts: 1,145 |
That's why people come to watch  Floating Finish - the German Tractor Pulling Web Show and EU Live Streams: [www.youtube.com] |
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