01:48:30am, Saturday, April 27, 2024
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Norwalk Crowd
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Better hope the crowd picks up over the weekend. Could be tough to pay the bills unless there is a lot of sponsorship. |
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Re: Norwalk Crowd
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That's what happens when you schedule a first year big even the SAME weekend as a well established Super National Pull. The fans will be in Tennessee. Everyone talks about NTPA having "no vision", but I think PPL is the one who bug-a-booed here. Looks like a LOT of good iron went to Norwalk, including NTPA blue-bloods such as Venney, Lemke, and Beck. But watching a pre-fab track on a venue that was built for a different sport? Not what I (or I suppose several fans) want to see. It would be like watching a football game on a baseball field (remember how well that didn't work in the 80's)? Lions Super Pull of the South looked down on competitors this year. I imagine the Lions Club will just up the purse next year, go head to head with Norwalk (if that's what PPL is looking to do), and bring all the iron back down south. If PPL is smart, they will move this pull up one weekend in the future.
They might also want to examine the pulls of the past that pulled at other motor sports venues. Pocono and Bristol. They didn't succeed. |
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Re: Norwalk Crowd
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Registered: 08/16/2021 Posts: 306 |
I'd hold off on forming an opinion of the crowd until Saturday. I would guess that many like myself don't feel like taking time off work to attend Thursday and Friday sessions. I'm from the Bowling Green Ohio area and myself and a large group of buddies are driving out tomorrow. Last nights crowd was bad based on pictures and video. No arguments from me.
The other question: what will attendance at Chapel Hill look like this weekend? |
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Re: Norwalk Crowd
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Posts: 1,161 |
I don’t know why you wouldn’t want to see this. This facility is second to none and the track is actually pretty darn good. For the one saying they better hope for a bigger crowd, it was Thursday and for a Thursday crowd it wasn’t too bad. It’s also very hard to judge how many people are here with how large the seating capacity is. Brent Yaron Hooked Up Pulling Productions hookeduppullingproductions@gmail.com |
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Re: Norwalk Crowd
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I do want to see this. I want to see Chapel Hill more. |
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Re: Norwalk Crowd
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history
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"I would guess that many like myself don't feel like taking time off work to attend Thursday and Friday sessions"
Thursday was light on crowd? Sounds familiar. Bowling Green took Sunday afternoon out a few years ago to opt for Thursday night instead. The "excuse" or reason that was being floated was people didn't want to take Monday off/travel was a problem. From what I've seen since this change in BG, Thursday night crowd is very light. I'd reckon it's for the same excuse as stated above. So what exactly did they gain? Ya I know, 3 night shows and 2 day shows vs 3 day shows and 2 night shows........it's cooler at night.......blah blah blah. Ultimately I doubt it changed a damn thing in terms of drawing crowd. The true diehards will go regardless of when it is scheduled. Personally I preferred the Sunday afternoon show at BG and lazy Monday morning drive home. Classic case of fixing something that wasn't broke to begin with. That all being said I think this PPL event is a great thing and hope it succeeds. Plan to attend in the future. |
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Re: Norwalk Crowd
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Moderator Registered: 07/06/2008 Posts: 1,347 |
I would like to actually see BG add classes and have a 6th session on Sunday. Without going into detail, there are ways with class scheduling and puller cooperation that pit space issues could be alleviated. |
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Re: Norwalk Crowd
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Team one
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I wasn’t at Norwalk, but I’ve talked about this on here before and not being able to pinpoint why PPL has trouble drawing a crowd, the vehicles are second to none and they have some great venues but the overall production seems to lack and not be as appealing, is it not having nostalgia of some other pulls? is it announcers? Is it classes offered? I don’t know. |
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Re: Norwalk Crowd
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To reply to the concept of why PPL struggles to draw crowds the way NTPA does- The nail was hit on the head in the next response. Track building and pace of show. NTPA simply does not struggle with these things. Tracks that NTPA puts and keep on the schedule are always top notch. Fans are never looking at two empty sleds. In fact, at some places, NTPA runs sleds simultaneously. We have a huge riff that is being high-lighted by the Chapel Hill/ Norwalk weekend. Don't ask why fans prefer NTPA shows- we fans can answer that all day long. Instead ask this- Why are pullers preferring to attend PPL pulls? Find the answer to both questions, and then work to do what is best for both. Should a pull be for the pullers, or should a pull be for the fans? |
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Re: Norwalk Crowd
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Moderator Registered: 03/19/2018 Posts: 663 |
The events you cite help illustrate your narrative, but they don't tell the whole story.
Dodge City - dirt track Farley - dirt track Pinetops - city street Gordyville - cattle barn Shipshewana - expo center NFMS - basketball arena Goshen - horse track Even BG was not originally a pulling track. It was a horse track that a vision was put in place for an event. Just because a venue is mixed-use doesn't mean it cannot provide an excellent show. I commend the Baders for having that vision for pulling and hosting it at the gold-standard venue in terms of the experience for their guests. The track tonight is very good and managed by Jim Miller who has done GN and CT events forever and Randy Spraggins who has built temporary tracks since the 80s and is married to Dusty Arfons. They know what to do. The large-venue thinking is good for pulling. Preference for Chapel Hill is fine, but dismissing this event... I'll reckon we've not heard the last of the World Series of Pulling. CP |
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Re: Norwalk Crowd
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Registered: 02/22/2011 Posts: 14 |
I can’t see many pulling fans in TN debating on driving to Norwalk to watch a pulling event. |
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Re: Norwalk Crowd
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Registered: 12/23/2018 Posts: 257 |
Looked like a pretty good show and crowd for the first year at Norwalk. Chapel Hill is invitational anyway. There is always plenty of pullers to make a show these days with many events going on at the same time. |
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Re: Norwalk Crowd
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Registered: 03/28/2021 Posts: 61 |
Plenty of things you can pick apart and complain about but please refrain from keyboard bashing Norwalk for trying to do something for your sport....they didn't have to pony up and do this. I was there and thought the crowd was bigger than I expected for a Thursday pull at a new event. Definitely unfortunate anyone who shows up for Friday evenings session after work has to pay for the prior two sessions they weren't able to watch or attend. I for a fact would have come back Friday and Saturday night and buy a ticket and fill a seat if they would just charge me for the session that I am able to come see. I work too hard to hand over $40 for one session.
If you weren't there: Excellent facility, Excellent track maintenance, Excellent announcing, dirt was ok (loose and fine not sticking together to create a power track but was good enough and seemed to be quite consistent throughout each class. definitely could have been much worse), pace of show was terribly horribly slow( track crew did good going back and forth trying to keep up with 2 tracks, but the vehicles were never ready to get up to the sled) was their no lineup man ??? who knows but most of the night we were looking at two sleds sitting at the starting line with no vehicles hooked to them. Ice cream was great! |
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Re: Norwalk Crowd
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Just Sayin’
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I’ll just let everyone know now that the track at Norwalk is a Jim Miller track. Now, the barrier wall is an issue which is why they do away with the 150’ “center” out of bounds line. And that’s been the issue for pace of show.
Facilities are magnificent! I completely take my hat off to the group that has the vision to try something new and fresh to promote the sport. You sit in the pits and just watch the number of employees going around keeping the trash cans empty, the ground(s), the restrooms, the stands, I’ve seen a number of people offering rides on golf carts (it’s a very large layout). Spectacular sound system and lighting. You can say what you want, but I think you get what you pay for here at Norwalk. If you still have the chance to come for Saturday’s show, I’d highly recommend you to do so. |
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Show moving at snail's pace
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Moderator Registered: 07/06/2008 Posts: 1,347 |
As someone following the results of the early sessions- it's 4:20 PM. I assume they ran 18 super farms that were supposed to begin at 1:30 on one track, and they just now have the first USS distance posted for the next class. On the FWD side, they had 24 entries and after nearly 3 hours still are not done with the class (do the math, that's a very slow hook time).
I went to a PPL pull in 2020 that had lots of good equipment and had the same feeling- way too much time between hooks for what appeared to the fans to be no good reason. Ironically, at Bowling Green with much larger classes, they do a good job of moving the show along (even though two vehicles should never pull at the exact same time). Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 07/22/2022 08:25AM by The Original Michael. |
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Re: Show moving at snail's pace
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Posts: 1,161 |
It’s essentially one track here but alternating classes. I’ve been to plenty of NTPA hooks that run just as slow, it’s dependent on the track crew, track, breakage, etc that determine how fast a show goes. The organization helps with making sure things keep going along, but aren’t the sole reason why hook times are fast or slow. Brent Yaron Hooked Up Pulling Productions hookeduppullingproductions@gmail.com |
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Re: Show moving at snail's pace
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Moderator Registered: 07/06/2008 Posts: 1,347 |
Except this isn't some Region 3 pull in the middle of Iowa on a Wednesday night. It's billed as "The World Series of Pulling." If they're going to talk the talk, they better walk the walk. (and I applaud Mr. Bader for having the event. I don't think he's the one causing any slowness issues). Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/22/2022 09:01AM by The Original Michael. |
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Re: Show moving at snail's pace
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Mn fan
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I think the number of hooks per session is a bit lower than anticipated. I sure thought that there would have been more NTPA mods and semis and a few more prostocks that weren't invited to Chapel Hill. Looks like its mostly a PPL show. I would bet Hillsboro had more hooks when it was a 4 session event. Hopefully they have it again and draw a few more competitors. Looks like a great venue. |
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Re: Norwalk Crowd
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Registered: 10/18/2011 Posts: 262 |
I would like to commend Bill Bader Jr and PPL for this venture. I think it is a great facility for Truck and Tractor Pulling venue. I'm very hopeful this Pulling Event is successful to become an annual event. As far as the date being in conflict with a Pull in the south, this might have been the only date available for Norwalk Raceway Park. They do have Drag Races every Weekend during the summer. They are going to make mistakes the 1st year, but Lets try and be Positive and give this Pulling Event a chance. |
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Re: Norwalk Crowd
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LSS Fa
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I really hope the crowd shows up tomorrow, what an excellent facility to have a pull at, it truly takes the sport to the next level in my opinion. I think it could become the next bowling green if given the chance. But no matter what, props to PPL, Bader, and all for putting it on. |
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Re: Norwalk Crowd
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Registered: 06/25/2008 Posts: 66 |
Some of you guys are unbelievable. I hope Mr. Bader is smart enough not to come here and read what the "experts" are saying about his first try at putting on a major league pulling event. And that he puts it on again next year. |
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Re: Norwalk Crowd
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He wouldn't welcome feedback from the demographic he is selling/ promoting his product to? If the chef asks me how my steak was, and I tell him it was overcooked, am I in the wrong? |
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Re: Norwalk Crowd
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Registered: 06/25/2008 Posts: 66 |
The man tries to put on a big brand new 3 day event, and at the start of day number 2, you guys are picking it apart. That's what I find unbelievable. And I shouldn't, I should know people better by now and expect the worst, but it still surprises me.
I'm assuming from your comments that you weren't there. So your analogy is flawed. A more accurate one would be you walking past the back door of a restaurant you have no intention of going in to eat at and yelling at the chefs "You're cooking that wrong!" I think Mr. Bader probably has a pretty good idea of what went right and what went wrong. I think if they would've gotten to run Saturday as scheduled, we would be having a totally different discussion about it. |
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First Class Facility / one of the best that truck and tractor pulling has ever seen
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Registered: 12/23/2018 Posts: 257 |
Chapel Hill is a great facility with bright lights and very friendly people. But there are plenty of pullers to supply both events. Other than Lucas Motor Speedway, Norwalk is probably one of the nicest facilities to host a truck and tractor pull. (Wheatland and Norwalk = nice pits, nice bathrooms, nice food, nice campgrounds) I'm thankful that Bill Bader Jr. decided to put on the pull. Thanks to Mike Conny / Mac Trailer for sponsoring all of the dirt etc. even though his tractors were at Chapel Hill. Thanks to Mike Conny and Mac Trailer for sponsoring the Louisville show in March as well. The armchair quarterbacks are gonna pick it apart but for a new event with an indoor style built track, it did not turn out too bad (thanks to Jim Miller and Randy Spraggins) That's all I got. Peace Out! :-) |
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Croton Stars and Stripes Angry Farmer Pull and Crowd
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Pull fan
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I was not at Norwalk, however I would have liked to have been. I was at Croton at the Stars and Stripes pull in early July. It did not draw a crowd either, on top of that they ran the NTPA pull and a local brush pull. The local brush pull was a far better show than the NTPA pull. Both could have stood to have a little more iron, but the brush pull moved along at a good pace and the NTPA event was severely delayed to the point of many people around me complaining about it because it was so obvious what they were doing to delay the pull just because NTPA DID NOT HAVE THE IRON there to compete. I felt really bad for the promoter and Todd Dugan of Angry Farmer for the poor fan turnout and poor turnout of iron. Maybe the days of sanctioned pulls are on a downswing? Maybe if they would have some brush pull classes for the locals to cover from say a 8 or 10 mph 12500, say 10500 to 14500 hot farm open speed, 8500 light limited pro combo class, street diesel truck class, RWYB 8000 truck class. I bet there would be plenty of iron and plenty of people would be there to watch. The local brush pulls I've been to have had good crowds and iron. Just seems like the sanctioned events are struggling for some reason. By the way I hope Baders and Dugan don't give up, just maybe try from a different angle next event. Best wishes to all promoters and sponsors. |
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Re: Norwalk Crowd
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Registered: 02/22/2011 Posts: 14 |
Let’s use a little logic and think about a few things.
Summit Motorsport park seats around 30k people. Chapel Hill TN is a High School football field and grandstands. If Summit Motorsport park had the grandstands from Chapel Hill the stands would have been packed Friday night. |
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Re: Norwalk Crowd
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OG
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If Norwalk had half the crowd Chapel Hill gets they wouldn't have canceled Saturday Nights show by noon. There are almost as many people walking around the football field at Chapel Hill as there are in the stands. |
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Re: Norwalk Crowd
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GO
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Hard to cut a track built on a pavement after a rainstorm that already had a lot of water put in it.
Let alone the mess it would have made to the track trying to get the event ready. I guess all the keyboard warriors know best though. Keep up the good job. |
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Re: Norwalk Crowd
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OG
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If the promoter thought there was a chance of bringing in $250k or more in revenue Saturday night, they would have built a track. I think they 100% made the right decision to cancel. The odds of a year 2 in Norwalk with an event like this are low. I've been around awhile. Chapel Hill built the following they have over decades. Some of us went down when it was a massive state level hook. |
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Re: Norwalk Crowd
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Steve Jones
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What was the big meeting about Friday night in Norwalk |
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Re: Norwalk Crowd
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Well they only had a tenth of an inch when they called it when the sun came out. Then they got maybe another tenth in the middle of the night.that should have been very easy to work with. |
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Re: Norwalk Crowd
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Fred
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Why act like the turnout at Norwalk had anything to do with Chapel Hill? They are not fighting for the same fans and only a few of the same pullers. Norwalk has the facility and framework to be the largest pull in the country. I just hope that the promoters don't listen to the keyboard warriors and quit before it it turn into something. Probably should think about starting as a 2 day event and as it grows, make it a 3 day. Also not thrilled to make 3 passes in a weekend and only have 2 count for points in the middle of a points season. I watched runs from Chapel Hill, and those stands aren't completely packed.... |
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Re: Norwalk Crowd
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Fan 2
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There were a few empty seats at the starting line Saturday night at Chapel Hill, otherwise it was packed. I was there for the first time and really enjoyed it! They have less dead time with one track than many places do with two. They really keep it moving. Also nice to not have track grooming in the way all night. |
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Re: Norwalk Crowd
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Moderator Registered: 07/06/2008 Posts: 1,347 |
A facility like Norwalk needs to have a big event to even open the doors. With a number of paid employees plus prestige of the place, a state or region level event would have been doomed unless there was a gimmick (watch John Force or Tony Stewart drive a modified for example).
The Biden economy and supply chain/parts issues didn't do them any favors. They typically bring in a huge crowd for their Nighu Under Fire (which does have John Force and a few others). We'll see how that draws. |
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Re: Norwalk Crowd
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Registered: 05/22/2008 Posts: 225 |
Just for reference. On Saturday night the SRX circle track tour (Tony Stewart) at Sharon Speedway drew a SRO crowd and the FPP USA-EAST event at Raceway Seven drew a large crowd. Both of these events were in Northeast Ohio and both events experienced some rain from the same system that hit Norwalk earlier in the day. Tickets were $45 for the SRX event and sold out and tickets were $15.00 for the pulls. |
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Re: Norwalk Crowd
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OG
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Are those annual events on the calendar or are they first timers? thanks. What would be paid attendance for the FPP event? |
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Re: Norwalk Crowd
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Registered: 05/22/2008 Posts: 225 |
SRX race was a first time event (and was broadcast live on CBS - 'free'). FPP event would have had around 2000 paid grandstand ($15) and 400 in pits ($20). |
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Re: Norwalk Crowd
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Thursday($20) had more people than Friday($50) in Norwalk!! Being from northeast Ohio, almost every fair pull in NEO has a great crowd for truck and tractor pulling! |
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Re: Norwalk Crowd
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Posts: 1,161 |
We (us media guys) brought this up to Mary (their media person) about how they need to have a induvial session ticket price. She mentioned that they never really thought anything about it as that's how it works in drag racing. She was going to pass our information along to Bill. Brent Yaron Hooked Up Pulling Productions hookeduppullingproductions@gmail.com |
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Re: Norwalk Crowd
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Fred
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Never been to Chapel Hill and didn’t make it to Norwalk but I did just watch the run Parish made on Friday and those grandstands are not that big and not that full?! |
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Re: Norwalk Crowd
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Fan 2
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Stands were about 3/4 full Friday, and packed Saturday night in Chapel Hill except for the starting line. Doesn't even take into account all the people standing around the whole finish line end of the track, it's all the way around the end. I personally spoke to people from Mississippi, Georgia, Louisiana, Florida, and Arkansas that were there just to see that pull. Some of them were first timers. |
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Crowd comparison ? for those who may know
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Moderator Registered: 07/06/2008 Posts: 1,347 |
Just curious as the video clips only show one side of the grandstands that did have spectators but look generally sparse. Of those 30k seats, how many were filled on Friday night? For that matter, what is Chapel Hill seating capacity (comparing apples to apples), how many were in the seats for Chapel Hill's Friday night session? Also for a local pulling comparison, the Huron Co. Fair pull in Norwalk is usually the day before Bowling Green starts. For anyone who has attended, what kind of crowd does the local Co. Fair OSTPA pull draw compared to the Norwalk PPL pull (I know it's a different venue but am curious about actual butts in seats for a local comparison)? |
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Re: Crowd comparison ? for those who may know
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Posts: 1,161 |
I would say there was probably 4,000-5,000 people there on Friday night, but again it's so hard to tell with how big the facility is. I went to the Norwalk pull at the Huron County Fair last year and the grandstands were full as well as a rather large law chair seating area. The pit side only had a few people sitting on that side. Brent Yaron Hooked Up Pulling Productions hookeduppullingproductions@gmail.com |
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Re: Crowd comparison ? for those who may know
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Jerry
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I was there Thursday and Friday for all sessions. Hate seeing everyone bash the pull. Yes the attendance did seem to lack. But it was a first time pull being there and there was quite a few other pulls going on and events in the area. But it’s also hard to say just how many people were there as big of a facility as it is. Really hope they have it again because I for sure will go back. Great facility and just a really cool atmosphere. My only complaints was how slow the pull went on Thursday and Friday afternoon sessions. Liked the idea of each puller being able to have both tracks to use after he got past 150 ft but did make for way to much down time in between pulls. And wish there were more things to do in between sessions. Wasn’t a lot going on in the pits Thursday and Friday morning-afternoon, so not much to see or look at, and not many vendors or things to do to kill time. But all in all I think it was a great show and hats off to everyone at Summit Motorsport Park. Hope to see it happen again next year. |
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Center line dq
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Watching some video from the event, I wasn't there. I have a question. The center "out of bounds" line is gone after about 100 feet. In session 1 mini class there were a couple mini's dq'ed. Was this for crossing the center? If theres no line how can you dq them? Also others appeared to be in the same place on the track and weren't dq'ed. Not trying to start anything just trying to understand. |
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Re: Center line dq
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Posts: 1,161 |
Centerline went to 150 feet, if they crossed it they were DQ'd. Once past the 150 foot centerline they were free to use the full width of both tracks. Brent Yaron Hooked Up Pulling Productions hookeduppullingproductions@gmail.com |
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Re: Center line dq
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Thanks for the explanation |
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