04:02:32pm, Friday, May 17, 2024
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Is there any interest in a 640 4.1 class?
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Moderator Registered: 03/25/2008 Posts: 1,449 |
I've had a couple pullers ask me if there is any interest in this class.
1; 640 2; P pump 3; Billet head 4; Aftermarket manifolds 5; 4.5 x 4.5 or larger turbo 6; 9500 lbs Dick Morgan www.PULLOFF.com Independent Pulling News |
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Re: Is there any interest in a 640 4.1 class?
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Already have that class with Outlaws and it is going good |
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Re: Is there any interest in a 640 4.1 class?
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tj
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I am interested in this class.Anyone else? |
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Re: Is there any interest in a 640 4.1 class?
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Registered: 04/02/2008 Posts: 478 |
Maybe in an area where there are alot of Super Farms. Makes sense for an area to do that I guess though I think 640 cubes should just stay Super Farm. With those rules you just mentioned outside the 4.1 turbo, might as well build a Pro Stock. Out East here (not MD or PA, VA, etc) the 540 with a P and a 4.1 or Unl. with an A would be great at 8,500 lbs. no components. J R Eastern Extreme Pulling www.easternextremepulling.com EEPPULLINGVIDEOS Pro Pulling Magazine Hook Magazine |
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Re: Is there any interest in a 640 4.1 class?
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Registered: 04/01/2008 Posts: 143 |
I would be interested, although I would suggest staying with the stock head casting, and a 4.1 charger like the Outlaw class.......I think there would be quite a few superfarms that would step up to a class like that, if there were enough hooks to make it worth while.....I would also suggest starting it out on the state and regional levels first, and if it panned out, maybe replace the superfarm class on the grand national level with this class......Just an idea...... |
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Re: Is there any interest in a 640 4.1 class?
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go west of the missiissippi, OUTLAWS and ECMTPA between the two of them have 15-20 tractors already pullin, they put on a pretty good show! |
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Re: Is there any interest in a 640 4.1 class?
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Anonymous User
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I THINK THERE ARE TO MANY HEAVEY CLASS'S ALREADY . I THINK THERE ARE SOME LIGTH TRACTOR'S IN STORAGE THAT WOULD COME BACK OUT IF THERE WERE SOME LIGHT CLASS AROUND 7500 LBS. |
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None Here
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Orange Man
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For the purpose of the proposed class, I think 640 is too big for several reasons. First, 640 is too big and more expensive than 540. A 640 engine will have less longevity than a 540. At 640 you will loose the variety of color that you would have with a 540 limit. 640 is a big reason the super farm class has so few colors. Variety is one goal for this set of rules and just taking a superfam tractor swapping the turbo and throwing a billet head on it doesn't accomplish it. This set of rules may be too close to that of the pro stock, also. Basically all you are doing is are taking away 40 ci and the sigma pumps and that is too similar to the current pro stock rules. I also feel there would be fewer tractors in a class like this. When you set out to start a new class you want it to be sucessful with a decent number of vehicles. These rules won't give you that. The 540 cubic inch light pro stock rules discussed earlier will have a higher number of tractors and will be better for the sport in the long run. |
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Re: None Here
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just thinking
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There is classes like that started already which was said above(640 w/ 4.1). Which means the numbers are there already, not "MAYBE come out of the shed or COULD be there in that class". There is alot of the SF tractors that have changed over and no it's not just put on a big charger and go! If you do that you might just as well leave it in the shed! |
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Re: None Here
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Poll
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They should have put 640 cubic inch in the poll and would have got more votes than the other sizes. Instead the Morgans want everyone to go with there suggestions for the class and left it out. They do not pull and have not pulled and shouldnt be trying to influence the work of others associations, especially since it is working. Outlaws, ECMTPA, and NTPA are happy with the results they are getting now at 640 and are not going to change. Maybe some on the east coast like the little motors, and it that is what works for some of those state associations, they sould stick with it.With 70 plus Super Farms at Bowling Green, plus over 30 at Wisner on the same day, not counting 100's of others around the country this gives them another option. |
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Limited Pro
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tj
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That sounds like a good idea. Dick can you do a new poll that includes 640? |
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Re: Limited Pro
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i was wondering why 600 and 640 wernt in the poll? also why only 8500 and 8000lbs? put the 9000 and 9500lbs up for vote |
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Re: Is there any interest in a 640 4.1 class?
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smokin spectator
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NO!!! 640 just raises the price, stroker cranks etc. |
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Bad Idea
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Woodpile
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The idea of having a cube limit of 640 for this class is rediculous. Sounds like some super farm guys don't want to run in the class anymore, and don't want to work on their tractor to get it down to 540 to me. Rules should help promote the sport, not individual pullers.
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Re: Bad Idea
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tracks
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why should we make people build new motors for one or two people |
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Re: Bad Idea
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Woodpile
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It wouldn't be just one or two. More like 30, is my guess. |
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Re: Is there any interest in a 640 4.1 class?
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so the tractor we built last year (600 cu in, 9500lbs, 4.1 turbo NTPA rules) we have to rebuild? |
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Re: Is there any interest in a 640 4.1 class?
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just thinking
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That's what I'm talking about! You stick your neck out and you get it whacked off. Thats why the 640 class would work the 600-640 are there. changing cube will just add to $. 100 sf just at 2 places, half would change or have already changed. Do the math. Even if you do run 540/505 cube rule a good puller is going to build to win not just place(Meaning better rods,cam,crank,pistons,sleeves, head). Looks to me you would be saving a whole $700 just in boring the block out! If you think thats a lot of money better stick to the key board. |
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Re: Is there any interest in a 640 4.1 class?
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buster
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Did anyone see the lim pro/sf at canfield? The tractor that won is a 8500 mod turbo, 540 cu in., A pump, unlimited turbo,,,,great class,,,great set of rules |
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Re: Is there any interest in a 640 4.1 class?
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ohoi puller
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they run good because they are not all 540 . most of the ones that do good run deck plates to get more cubes they are about 600 cubes but no buddy is smart enough to no that to run 540 you do not need a deck plate they are all over cubed |
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Re: Is there any interest in a 640 4.1 class?
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stan
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ithink the 600 4-1 class would be good |
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Re: Deck plate doesn't increase size as fast as a dinner plate
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Registered: 03/25/2008 Posts: 2,526 |
A deck plate doesn't increase engine size anymore than a dinner plate increases my size... there's a little more to the combination rather than just blaming the deck plate.
I helped build a 496… it had a deck plate (it was a 474 with a stock stroke and a slightly larger bore so it didn’t really “need” a deck plate to gain cubic inches). If you took out the deck plate it would have still been 496, but it would have either had a shorter piston or a shorter set of rods (the deck plate was the cheapest option). The deck plate didn’t add any cubic inches, but it was a cheap way to use some “old” parts and get the compression ratio where it needed to be. Some people use a deck plate to run a longer rod… some use it to hold the top end together… and yes some use it to add cubic inches (a deck plate alone won’t change cubes though!) Deck plates don’t always add cubic inches, they can, but they don’t necessarily. Maybe with your X-ray glasses you could see their bore and stoke combo so you “know” who’s cheating. I guess you should be a tech official since it’s so easy to tech them from the outside. Personally, I don’t know who’s cheating, and who’s not simply because I see a deck plate. Next time you see a deck plate you should put your protest money up… a simple engine pump test will see who’s cheating and who’s just got a deck plate to get the rod length they want. As for the 640 or 600 4.1 class... please click here Jake Morgan Owner, PULLOFF.COM Independent Pulling News This page is a free service. The cost is covered out of my pocket. It takes a great deal of time and a fair amount of money to keep this website going. Donations for: photos, classified ads, forum discussion, etc... are appreciated. Side Note: We are no longer accepting PayPal donations. They have changed their terms of service and stated they would fine PayPal users for spreading "misinformation" and "hate, violence, racial or other forms of intolerance that is discriminatory". PayPal did not provide definitions for some of these vague terms. Woke corporate policies regarding "misinformation" could result in an automatic fine of $2,500 which would have been removed directly from the customer’s PayPal account. PayPal did backdown from some of their policies but quietly implemented portions of them in later terms of service. A financial institute has no right to monitor social media accounts or speech. This is unacceptable and I'll no longer do business with PayPal. |
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Re: Deck plate doesn't increase size as fast as a dinner plate
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stan
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why is it always about the superfarms let the lim pro cry babys spend some money and go to 600 cubes. why do the superfarm guys always got spend all the money |
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Re: Deck plate doesn't increase size as fast as a dinner plate
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Registered: 08/03/2008 Posts: 438 |
So, a 466 deere is 4.56" bore x 4.75" stroke=466ci. If you left the bore stock, stroked the crank 3/4", that would be 540. If you used a deck plate you could use a stroker crank with stock rod length and stock pistons? What would the thickness of your deck plate be, 1/2 of your increased stroke, in this case 3/8"? Where do you groove for your fire rings, in the deck plate or the head?
Thanks |
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a 640 4.1 class?
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WHY???
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For those who are interested in this class, I am wondering why? the two reasons I can think of are 6030 @ 619 and Massey V-8 @ 640. Other than that, why does the ci limit need to be so big? If this class uses a 640 limit, it will be dead before it is even off the ground. Broaden your vision a little and try to think which set of rules will be best for the sport, not your individual tractor! |
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Re: a 640 4.1 class?
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Registered: 06/18/2009 Posts: 78 |
2255 Oliver |
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Re: Is there any interest in a 640 4.1 class?
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puller14
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why billet heads and a 4.1. why not help on the money side how about a 3.5 turbo oem heads make good power and have reliability |
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Re: Is there any interest in a 640 4.1 class?
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HP
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how many superfarms were at bowling green? 70+? how many are running under 600 c.i.? maybe a handful. do you think any of them will decube and pull a 540 or 505 limited pro tractor? i don't think so. so if you want to thin out the super farm class i suggest the they make it a 640 ci limit in a small block motor. no 6030 big blocks aloud. just my opinion. take it and run with it. |
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Re: Is there any interest in a 640 4.1 class?
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Registered: 03/25/2008 Posts: 2,526 |
For a 505 540 Light Pro Stock Class:
Will SF decube immediately?… maybe some, definitely not half the class. Will PS decube immediately?... some… maybe a fair number of guys who still run a cast rear-end. New pullers… definitely lots… A 505 class will increase membership mush faster than a 600 or 640 class. The NTPA makes it’s money by membership (nothing wrong with that, it’s a perfectly legitimate business model). A 505 class will grow membership and offer fans and promoters a new option. As the class grows, I guarantee it will draw more and more SF pullers away form the SF class. As the number of hooks increases the SF numbers will diminish substantially. If you want a result for next year then go 640 and 4.1… if you want a class with longterm potential that will gradually slim down SF and increase membership at the same time then go 505. I think it’s simple a question of a long-term solution or a short-term “fix”. Jake Morgan Owner, PULLOFF.COM Independent Pulling News This page is a free service. The cost is covered out of my pocket. It takes a great deal of time and a fair amount of money to keep this website going. Donations for: photos, classified ads, forum discussion, etc... are appreciated. Side Note: We are no longer accepting PayPal donations. They have changed their terms of service and stated they would fine PayPal users for spreading "misinformation" and "hate, violence, racial or other forms of intolerance that is discriminatory". PayPal did not provide definitions for some of these vague terms. Woke corporate policies regarding "misinformation" could result in an automatic fine of $2,500 which would have been removed directly from the customer’s PayPal account. PayPal did backdown from some of their policies but quietly implemented portions of them in later terms of service. A financial institute has no right to monitor social media accounts or speech. This is unacceptable and I'll no longer do business with PayPal. |
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Re: Is there any interest in a 640 4.1 class?
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HP
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half the expense is boring out the motor. cost the same if you bore it out 4 1/2 or 4 3/4. so did ntpa hire you morgans to put out these polls or what? outlaws already has this 640 4.1 box turbo class and is going very well. the only thing that is holding back more numbers is the hp tires aren't allowed. |
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Re: Is there any interest in a 640 4.1 class?
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the answer
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So why would you make a class with a rule saying you can't run a certain tractor (6030) Thats rediculous. really annoying to eliminated something that alot of fans like to see at pulls. There isn't alot of them around but what ones are out there do well. Every single person who posts on here about this ntpa limited pro class should go back to antiques or farm pulling and complain about why they can't win with the way rules are. |
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Re: Is there any interest in a 640 4.1 class?
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So the rules for LSS should be changed so the 6030s can hook that class too? NOT!!!!! |
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OUTLAW 4.1 class?
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if the outlaws would let hp tires and columbus turbos the class would double over night! |
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Re: Is there any interest in a 640 4.1 class?
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Registered: 03/16/2009 Posts: 19 |
ITPA and East Central already has the 466 limited pro class out there. It seems to get great numbers. Why screw up what is already there and put in a 505 class adn keep those out there from having a national class to participate in. 466 is quick and easy to get to by ALL colors. If you want a small cube class, use that as your model.
Now for the bigger class. Somewhere between 680 (prostock) and 466 (limited pro) is right. The popular sizes are 640, 600 and 540. As far as saving money goes, the 540 wins but not that much over the 600. The 640 is definitely the most costly of them all. With everyone being pretty opinionated on this one, maybe a compromise of the 600 ci motor would be the correct decision?? I don't know, but there are times when we have to make concessions to move forward or else the idea will stay on the message boards forever. Just a thought. |
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Re: Is there any interest in a 640 4.1 class?
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Anonymous User
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Jake, I believe your poll shows a large number of pullers favor the 540 option. |
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Re: Is there any interest in a 640 4.1 class?
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Anonymous User
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Because 600 and 640 was not offered as an option. Try it again!!! |
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Re: Is there any interest in a 640 4.1 class?
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I think theres a lot of super farms that would switchto this 4.1, 640 cu in. if the class was for SURE offered, but its going to take more than 1 year to get it going! |
640 
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Hot Farm Puller
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640 would not be a good option. 540 would be more inviting for new tractors. The poll spreaks for itself.
540 ci OEM head box turbo p-Pump 8500lbs Run it. |
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Re: 640
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ray ford
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lets hope it is a box turbo thats the key with 505 cubes |
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Re: 640
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Old puller
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You must be one of those "custom" turbo builders that was charging $4600.00 for bolting together $2300.00 worth of factory parts...i.e. a ball bearing GT42 . I am sure you are not happy about losing your $2000.00 profit for 10 minutes work. |
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Re: 640
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ray ford
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without a box turbo rule you will be buying the better new turbo each and every year and more and more money it will never end . |
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Re: 640
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Green puller
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I agree 100%. How many $4000 to $5000 turbos have the guys in that "low budget starter class" called Super Farm had to buy in the last 5 years to stay competitive? At least one a year, if not two. If you are not going to make the rule a box turbo at least make it a spec turbo (Hyper or Columbus) and stick with it.......Don't change it every year. |
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Re: 640
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ray ford
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right on green puller . i have been in the ntpa pro farm class in mn and now have 3 turbos on shelf one on tractor there is always a new one a little better thats the way it is . the ntpa pro farm class is a great class but would have been even better with a box turbo . oh well i guess its just 2,3,4,or 5 grand extra per year . in the name of fun . |
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Re: 640
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red ih puller
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if your name is ray ford you havent pulled in the minnesota pro farm class this year or last year |
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Re: 640
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ray ford
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is your name red ih puller ? have not noticed that name on any results lists . |
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