BSTP 466 questions February 26, 2023 02:02PM
For awhile I've always enjoyed and liked the badger state 466 class and was just curious on what kind of numbers are they producing and what gear ratios are they running indoors and out doors?

Re: BSTP 466 questions February 27, 2023 01:28AM
They are making about 1300hp, 20:1 19:1 outdoor, 22:1 indoor. PPL and NTPA set the standards in rules across the country, too bad badger states hot farm can’t follow the PPL rules and WTPA can’t follow NTPA’s rules. How many different versions of hot farms do we need across the country? Only thing different are slotted charger, exhaust headers, and 510 cubes.

Re: BSTP 466 questions February 27, 2023 01:35AM
Why should WTPA and Badger State follow those rules when the 466 hot farm or 466 pro farm in Mn have been around longer then the 510 rules at that level?? Why don't the 510 come down to 466 and conform to the rules set up already in the tri state area by UPM(NTPA), BADGER STATE and TRI STATE???

Re: BSTP 466 questions March 05, 2023 02:17PM
There’s a reason why NTPA/ PPL went with the 510 set of rules. It allows more tractor brands to be competitive in the class. People say the case guys can just use the 451 and the ford guys can use the 456. But the case 504 and the ford 474 engines are more available and less expensive, just like how the dt466 is for the ih guys. The 510 Perkins and 8.3 Cummins would also fit within the rules. There’s no secret that the 510 hot farms have more color in their class compared to the 466 hot farms. Wtpa is supposed to follow NTPA rules just like how badger state is supposed to follow ppl rules. There’s no need for several versions of hot farms, especially when there’s hardly any differences. It’s a privilege to have hot farms at the enderle pull off but it’s a real bummer Wisconsin hot farms don’t have a chance of getting there. The 466 rules have been around for quite a while but I feel like the 510 rules would benefit the class and spectators much more.

Re: BSTP 466 questions March 06, 2023 01:35AM
NTPA has had pro farm class in the rule book a lot longer than 510. To the people in the 466 class already there is no benefit to moving up. Just have to spend a lot more money to do it, Leave the 466 class alone in the Midwest. There isn't a benefit to the class here to change. We have a lot of pulls and a lot of great competitors in UPM/WTPA/BadgerState/Tristate and beyond!

Re: BSTP 466 questions March 06, 2023 12:58PM
Tell us Oly how much hp does a map groove cover add to the 466 tractor we all know Clint doesn't police it in the winter

Re: BSTP 466 questions March 07, 2023 01:18AM
Why does this happen every year. We have a flourishing 466 3x3 class in the Midwest but it's not good enough for the 510 guys to leave us alone. It's always the 466 guys that need to change for others. Tell you what, worry about yourself and we can worry about us. Why would anyone think it's a good idea to change a class that just got put in with ANOTHER organization??? We all have our own sandboxes just stay in yours and well stay in ours!

Re: BSTP 466 questions March 07, 2023 03:21AM
The BSTP Hot Farm class, in my opinion, should not be touched. I know multiple drivers in that class that run BSTP. That class can put a good show, with good numbers, good color, and close competition. I am all about posative changes for growing a class, but I really don't feel this needs to be changes. But say they do change it to 510, then how long before that 3x3 turbo isn't good enough? So you change the turbo rule 1 or 2 times. Then they can produce good power, but lack traction. So then let's change the the tire rule to 20.8s. Or even better, by then, there will be some new tires come to the game and ProStock guys will be getting rid of 24.5's. So let's just allow them. And everyone that is for all these changes will assure you that it is going to make it more affordable. Not every class needs to be fixed.

I end with this. Someone said at a rules meeting years ago, "You build for the class you want to run, you don't build and expect them to change the class for you." Think about it. How many times do we change rules because it helps 50% of the class, or because it's makes things easier, or because another organization did it? But does it actually help?

Jutter, I am sorry this got off topic. You asked a simple question and and snowballed out of control.

Real world question? March 07, 2023 06:33AM
On the track, what is the difference between the sled setting for an NTPA/PPL 510 ci Hot Farm and a Badger State/WTPA 466 Hot Farm?

Is it one block? One gear? Is it close enough that 100 or 150 lbs more to the 466 would basically equalize things?

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/07/2023 06:34AM by The Original Michael.

Re: 466 March 07, 2023 11:21AM
I've been to gordyville I've been to Shipshewana. I enjoy watching the Hot farm classes the most. I wasn't sure what kind of numbers and gearing they were running but man some of those guys fly down through their and was just curious. Some day I'd like to be apart of it and be out there with those guys

Re: 466 March 07, 2023 11:37AM
That’s what I’m trying to do. Been watching hot farm for years. Trying to build my own now. Hopefully it’ll be finished within 2.5-3 years

Re: 466 March 07, 2023 11:54AM
I honestly do not think there is much difference between the 466 BSTP tractors and REG 2 / MWR 510 tractors. If you look at results from Ship there were 8 510 tractors and 3 BSTP tractors. It is possible for them to run together fairly. I think the only thing that really makes a difference is the smooth bore vs. slotted cover. The cubic inch is so close I don't think it really poses an issue. Slotted covers are allowed in the 9500 hot farm at Ship so it wouldn't surprise me if the 466 tractors in the finals had the slotted cover on but I do not know that for a fact. These tractors are very close together and it is possible for them to run together fairly. I know I would like the opportunity to be able to go to Wisconsin for a long weekend and run with guys up there that we have met over the years at Gordyville and Ship. I think BSTP guys would like the slotted cover but thats my opinion. I mean more power is always better. Right?

Re: 466 March 08, 2023 01:23AM
But remember, that is all on a 300 ft track. Most of the guys didn't get past that. It was discussed last year that a 510 on a longer outdoor track would pass a 466 in a second and a lot of pullers agreed with that. My argument is with more power is you still go the same speed and the same distance down the track, the sled just gets heavier.

Re: 466 March 08, 2023 02:01AM
I know it was discussed but I would like to see it happen. I think we need to have an outdoor summer pull. 3" slot cover and mix the two classes. I do not think there will be as big of a difference that you think, but if their is this is where we can find a weight variance to keep them all the same. Make the 510 drop a couple hundred or so.

Also your point that you still go the same speed and the sled just gets heavier, that is true. But then why do we all go buy the latest and greatest pump and turbo if all were going to do is go the same speed and sled just gets heavier. So your point about horsepower is irrelevant.

The reason I would like to see both classes come together is were different. We are the top open RPM tractors on 20.8. Were appeal different to the fans. I feel if we can show a great following and one single set of rules we have the opportunity to get in to much larger shows and possibly the opportunity to move to a PPL Silver series or higher level.

Re: 466 March 08, 2023 02:26AM
But why is it 466 needs to do the changing???? Every year its the 466 tractors that need to change on pull-off. Why should the longer standing class with NTPA/Badger state be the one to change. Why Can't the 510 tractors change?? Cost?? Like the cost of a 3x3.5 or the cost to go to 510 cubic inch for the 466 stuff??

We all have a sandbox that's successful and growing. Doesn't mean we need to play in the same sandbox.

The only reason someone upgrades parts is because a competitor does the same. We keep up with each other. The sled doesn't care what we have under the hood it's still stopping us in 350 or less no matter it being a 500 hp tractor or 5000 hp DSS. I feel like that's why outlaws are growing because they run box turbos in some of their classes.

Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 03/08/2023 02:29AM by Oly.

Re: 466 March 08, 2023 05:30AM
I am not saying anyone has to change. You play in your sand box and we will play in ours. It is pretty ironic that some 466 guys come to Ship and put slotted covers on to run with 510 guys. So there must be some want or need for this to happen. I honestly think that if the 466 guys put on a slotted cover and the 510 guys drop 200lb we would be really close. There is a guy running with the 510 guys that has a 466 and was placing top 10 most the season. I think the classes are closer than what people realize.

Like I said I think it would be fun to be able to run together. All that would be needed is a cover swap. Not even a hole turbo change.

Re: 466 March 10, 2023 12:22AM
In badgerstate hotfarm you can run anything!! It's not like they check for cubic inch anyways. World Premier? Yeah right. Iv been to many pulls and at most I have seen them put a slug in the turbo and check fuel. That's it.

Re: 466 March 10, 2023 01:23AM
You obviously don't know much about the tech process with tractor pulling.

Re: 466; to Oly March 10, 2023 07:15AM
Oly, you are losing.
They are right.
You are wrong.
Save yourself and STFU.
Trying to help.

Re: 466; to Oly March 10, 2023 07:17AM
But I'm not. Techs are not responsible for checking Cubic inch until a protest is brought forward. Teching is 90% safety check over. Randomly fuel, water, or turbo.

Re: 466; to Oly March 10, 2023 09:45AM
I am going to agree with Oly on his comment. If you want a cubic inch check , you put up the 500 dollars. This is what I was told.

David Runkle class rep for Badger State LLSS class. 815-821-4686

Re: 466; to Oly March 10, 2023 11:09AM
Finally answered the question.
NTPA has checked whole classes of small tire stuff in the tech line at Tomah.
No protest.
Haven't seen grease burners teched for cubic inch ever.
The competitors were expecting them to be checked without a protest.

Re: 466; to Oly March 10, 2023 11:20AM
One thing is that if your caught after a 500 protest, your out a year and 10 days. With a 5000 reinstatement fee.

Re: 466; to Oly March 11, 2023 01:27PM
You have never been a tech. A lot of checking is done preseason in pullers shops. Trust me

Re: 466 March 10, 2023 03:18AM
There isn't such thing as a "tech process" with BSTP, that is my point. No pumping engines for cubic inch and sealing the oil pan, nothing like that.

Re: 466 March 10, 2023 03:30AM
Revert to my previous comment.

Re: 466 March 10, 2023 03:38AM
Oly, - I have seen whatTL says most of the time at most pulls.Period,not much if any tech.

Re: 466 March 10, 2023 04:05AM
Revert to previous comment

Re: 466 March 10, 2023 12:38PM
Cubic inches should be teched once a year by every organization every class that has a cubic inch limit class rules should not be under protest the organization that is operating as a buisness should guarantee a level playing field ive seen one check in 30 years the puller shouldnt be 100 percent responsible for a level playing field

Re: 466 March 10, 2023 12:48PM
That would be impossible. Do you realize how many tractors get put together the night before the first pull. It's a great rule for really small clubs, but wouldn't work for most large groups.

Re: 466 March 10, 2023 01:16PM
Klint i agree it would be for your pull because tractors come from all over but not for ntpa ppl bstp or any other such like organization no need in having any rule in any class if theres know possibility of being checked an organization puts on a pull the puller should be guaranteed fairness befor driving 500 miles .A few random checks would go a long way anounce the day se who dont show up get um next time

Re: 466 March 11, 2023 03:17AM
Exactly, great points. Majority of the pulling organizations don't have the help or time to do full checks on classes. Alot of the responsibility is put on the pullers to manage each other on class rules. Pulls like Tomah, Hillsboro or Wisner for example where the competitors are on the ground for multiple days give better opportunity to check things like cubic inch if it's brought up, but there isn't enough help or time at 90% of pulling events (regardless of organization or level of pulling) to achieve that level of teching. Could it be better? Sure, it can always be better, but it will never be perfect. All we can do is put on the most exciting and safest events that we can to try and keep the sport alive and growing!

Re: BSTP 466 questions March 12, 2023 03:02AM
Badger state guys wouldnt go to enderle even if they could. Badger dont travel

Re: BSTP 466 questions March 12, 2023 06:04AM
A 510c.i. 3×3.5 slotted is making a substantial amount more h.p. than a 3x3 Smooth. With that being said.
A 3x3 slotted is picking up a good amount of H.P. with the cover but are "in the range of" 100 hp ISH short of a great running Pro Pulling League 510 tractor. The " Badger" rules will run with the PPL tractors but it's at a disadvantage. Just being honest

Now that we are on the subject it's my opinion that the 9000 Super Farm Class at Ship really isn't on a level playing field anymore. The 24.5 Pro Pullers changed the game down there this winter. The 20.8s are just at a disadvantage now in my opinion.

Things are ever evolving and maybe some of the mixed classes need to be thought about. Maybe it's time to split up the 3 flights and run a set of rules for each flight.

I just like a lot of people really want to see who is the HOT FARM/SUPER FARM CHAMION OF THE UNIVERSE is!!!!But maybe we need to be on diffrent space ships to the there. LOL

Now this was just my 2 cents just being honest with what ive learned over the years.

And in the words of Tony Reed Have a shitty day.
Road Gear Deere.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/12/2023 06:05AM by Hotsmallblock.


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