Single Port water injection March 08, 2023 05:07AM
Hello and Good afternoon, I am looking for multiple opinions (not an argument) on single port water injection. Specifically one single port in the cross over tube.
1) Does this add horse power and if so how much?
2) Does this add significant cooling to the engine, in all cylinders or are there cooler and warmer cylinders?
3) Would a two port system be more beneficial in the cross over tube?
4) Is there anything you may know that I am not asking.

As always thank you for your time and thank you for the space on pulloff to ask questions.
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Re: Single Port water injection March 08, 2023 05:50AM
It is not a very good idea because:
Water is heavier than air and will be "thrown" to the last cylinder, which then gets great knock protection / cooling - which others won't.
Water injection in front of the turbo will help with temperatures and efficiency of the turbo - but that doesn't take a lot.
After the turbo, individual port nozzles is the way to go.
[youtu.be] this explains it pretty well, even though they are using methanol - water is even worse in atomizing.


Floating Finish - the German Tractor Pulling Web Show and EU Live Streams: [www.youtube.com]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/09/2023 01:34AM by Sascha.
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Re: Single Port water injection March 08, 2023 08:22AM
I would have questions for the video people. What pressure are you using to inject the methyl and water, have you dialed the amount injected, at what pressure to start to inject? IMO that high pressure (1500 psi) plus with smallest nozzles opening you can run and control your EGTs will help with atomization. I would recommend talking to a diesel engine builder that builds pulling motor for starting suggestion.
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Re: Single Port water injection March 08, 2023 10:13AM
we are running 2 ports in the cross over. My best advise would be to call Fair Valley Performance. They can answer any and all questions you might have. We did see a gain in Torque over not running water. Also all of our cylinders are fairly close in EGTs.
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Re: Single Port water injection March 08, 2023 11:57AM
Agree with what is said above. Use 2 to 3 ports spaced several inches apart and preferably clocked to different places in the tube. Mist the front of the charger (use a longer horn so it can mix before meeting the wheel). You may see better cooling with fewer ccs of water this way where it is atomized more vs trying to fire-hose it through one nozzle and not getting adequate mixing.

CP
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Re: Single Port water injection March 08, 2023 11:44AM
I run two in my cross pipe and one pre charger. The two in the cross pipe do most of the water I'd say about 95%. The one pre charger in there just to keep compressor wheel cooler. I run about 60oz in 15 seconds at about 920psi all my cylinder Temps are within 30 degree. My crosspipe in about 3ft long has one nozzle about6 inches from charger and one about 6 inches from intake. Front feed intake never had problem with cylinder Temps varying much. I also say call fvp they will answer any questions and hook you up with a good solution. I run a fvp system on mine would never look back spend the money once and don't worry about eggs again. To get it set up good best to do it on the dyno.
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Re: Single Port water injection March 08, 2023 12:00PM
How many can you run
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Re: Single Port water injection March 09, 2023 02:02AM
The group can only run ONE in the cross over tube, that is the only location. Thanks IH466
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Re: Single Port water injection March 09, 2023 02:38AM
Call FVP for the setup. Run the nozzle as close to the turbo as possible for best atomization for even cooling. If they allow it, I would take advantage of it.
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Re: Single Port water injection March 09, 2023 09:05AM
It makes a difference. Putting even 1 nozzle will make it run quite a bit better.
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Re: Single Port water injection March 10, 2023 03:38AM
IH466, I am looking for some numbers. I would really like a consensus of yes one port makes 50hp and lowers all cylinders by 200 degrees. Or no, it does not add much power and is very difficult to dial in, from pass to pass. I appreciate every ones opinion and all the info i have gotten so far.
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Re: Single Port water injection March 10, 2023 03:50AM
As long as you can get it all vaporized and use the latent heat (google the definition of this term) of the water, it helps to lower inlet temperatures and egts.
This depends on your nozzle, the amount of water you add, and the inlet temperature you have (which then depends on your turbo efficiency, inlet ports, camshaft, ....).
If some of it enters the cylinders in liquid form (and if it stays liquid you will have a distribution problem), it will "boil" on the piston / in the cylinder and take out heat (energy) there, preventing knock, lower egts, and (depending on the amount) slowing down the temperature build up in the cylinder before and after combustion. Too much and it will lower the temperatures to a point where you don't have combustion and only lots of white smoke from unburnt diesel.

This is so complex to calculate, that even with data you need a master's in physics to give you an exact answer.
Measure with a datalogger and do some trial and error. It saves you 4 years at university...


Floating Finish - the German Tractor Pulling Web Show and EU Live Streams: [www.youtube.com]



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 03/10/2023 03:52AM by Sascha.
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Re: Single Port water injection March 11, 2023 07:15AM
Put it on and go dyno. Then you will know the number
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Re: Single Port water injection March 11, 2023 07:44AM
A clever way to look at water injection rate is to look at oz/sec (Oz of water consumed divided by seconds in run). 3 would be a good starting place.
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Re: Single Port water injection March 10, 2023 12:33AM
We ran a single port water injection setup for years. Brush pull stuff and water injection wasn’t strictly prohibited, but I didn’t want other pullers knowing it was on there so it was hidden very well. Used s single short enderle nozzle in the turbo compressor housing. Didn’t have a crossover on a JD, kinda farm stockish at the time. We were running about 35 ounce in 15 seconds at 900 psi, not a lot but enough to make a difference.

Like others have said, closer to the turbo the better, longer cross over helps a little to a point.

Who comes up with rules like this? They tell you how long the cross over has to be too?

I’d stick in it in the compressor housing, but I do have trouble reading sometimes.

Don’t be afraid to try different nozzle styles. You’ll find certain ones will work better than others on a single nozzle setup.
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Re: Single Port water injection March 10, 2023 03:45AM
Curious, the association close to me made the rule for one port. They are tying to keep the money spent on the class down. Don't want 100k tractors for this association, but i am curious if the water adds 100 or 10hp. Some associations in Illinois are allowing water in farm classes (hot or altered or whatever they call it) and it has been one or two in the crossover tube. The cross over tubes are usually factory or shortest distance, by rule. Hope this helps you to understand what and where I am coming from. Thank you.
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Re: Single Port water injection March 10, 2023 06:06AM
would help if we knew the turbo and cubic inch and rpm you are allowed, but yes water will help, regardless of how many nozzles you can have.(one is better than none) you will have to play with the volume of water to find the happy point, but theoretically you could take 400 degree air and reduce it to close to 200 degrees. doing so increases the air density inside the manifold which will in turn, produce more torque, longer crossover tubes help with cooling as well, but if i had a dog in the fight, i would definitely have water
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Re: Single Port water injection March 10, 2023 06:00AM
This previous season I ran one nozzle in my crossover pipe. Roughly 40 ounces/ pass.
510 Cube, open rpm 3x3.5 turbo. Had an issue with my water system and attempted two passes without it. Power was cut significantly.
Can’t say an exact hp# lost/gained. I’m sure every setup is different, but with my setup, I wouldn’t be surprised if the difference with and without water is in the hundreds of horsepower. Not able to give an EGT comparison because couldn’t even make a complete pass without the water.
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