Pro Stocks vs Super Stocks? March 20, 2023 05:48AM
I was going to title this Pro Stocks vs Unlimited Super Stocks, but since there is enough data that diesel or alcohol are basically equal, we'll include both.

A few years ago, Badger State let some of the alky SS pull in their class like Hulls. I think the uss ran at their normal 8000lb weight.

Since then, allowing for tech and tire advances, can a 10000 PS and 8000 SS run together and be about equal on the track?

Re: Pro Stocks vs Super Stocks? March 21, 2023 12:41PM
I think the Pro would win most of the time.

Re: Pro Stocks vs Super Stocks? March 21, 2023 02:58PM
Depends what caliber of super stock you are talking about, they do it out East and they seem to work decent together but I wouldn’t call most of those GN caliber tractors, I’ve seen a good running pros attempt to compete with SSD tractors in a GN setting and have yet to see them threaten the leader or even the top 3.

Re: Pro Stocks vs Super Stocks? March 21, 2023 11:03PM
I'm not talking about Cain @ nearly same weight or East Coast where it's 9500 vs 10000 but not GN caliber Supers.

What I'm asking is a PS like Schmucker, Simon, or Conny @ 10000 lbs against Blackbourn, GALOT, Ross, Bone Twister etc. at 8000 lbs.

Re: Pro Stocks vs Super Stocks? March 21, 2023 11:36PM
Do they ever use the same sled settings and pull back to back on the same track?

Re: Pro Stocks vs Super Stocks? March 22, 2023 12:19AM
At 10,000 lbs the PS would win every time. 2000 lbs is way to much of an advantage.

Re: Pro Stocks vs Super Stocks? March 22, 2023 05:32AM
I didn’t realize you were cherry picking select tractors, but yes the supers would still win.

Re: Pro Stocks vs Super Stocks? March 24, 2023 12:06AM
Quote
Team one
I didn’t realize you were cherry picking select tractors, but yes the supers would still win.

He's not cherry picking select tractors... he's simply saying the top tractors in one class against the top tractors in another class pulling the same sled at each classes respective weight. Not cherry picking as you put it, just top against top.

I'd put my money on the Pros at 10,000 lbs.



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Re: Pro Stocks vs Super Stocks? March 26, 2023 12:16PM
Last time I checked that’s exactly what cherry picking means in this context, but you own the place so whatever you say !

Re: Pro Stocks vs Super Stocks? March 26, 2023 02:01PM
Cherry Picking would be saying SPECIFIC tractors. Cherry Picking would be a way to try to control the outcome by picking certain tractors to go against a select group of other tractors to control the outcome. That is not what The Original Michael said... he used the word "like"... as in similar... or as in tractors at the top tier of their respective classes. Top Super Stocks against top Pro Stocks. That should always be the metric we use for comparisons. What good would it be to compare top tier verse second tier or class fillers?
(unless of course, someone wanted to bias the results)

So no... he's NOT Cherry Picking tractors, just looking for a fair comparison of the class based on the best of the best on any given night. You can disagree on his list of the best of the best, but his context seems pretty clear.



Jake Morgan
Owner, PULLOFF.COM
Independent Pulling News



This page is a free service. The cost is covered out of my pocket. It takes a great deal of time and a fair amount of money to keep this website going. Donations for: photos, classified ads, forum discussion, etc... are appreciated.

Side Note: We are no longer accepting PayPal donations. They have changed their terms of service and stated they would fine PayPal users for spreading "misinformation" and "hate, violence, racial or other forms of intolerance that is discriminatory". PayPal did not provide definitions for some of these vague terms. Woke corporate policies regarding "misinformation" could result in an automatic fine of $2,500 which would have been removed directly from the customer’s PayPal account. PayPal did backdown from some of their policies but quietly implemented portions of them in later terms of service. A financial institute has no right to monitor social media accounts or speech. This is unacceptable and I'll no longer do business with PayPal.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/26/2023 02:10PM by Jake Morgan.

Re: Pro Stocks vs Super Stocks? March 21, 2023 01:04PM
Can someone give insight for Cain’s PS that I believe ran with Super Stocks last year? Results, what rules he was following weight wise, etc

I could be totally off in left field but might be something to look at for answering your question

Re: Pro Stocks vs Super Stocks? March 21, 2023 01:16PM
Chris ran with the DSS rules 8000 lbs.

Re: Pro Stocks vs Super Stocks? March 21, 2023 01:26PM
Quote
Chris P Bacon
Chris ran with the DSS rules 8000 lbs.

But what changes other than losing some pounds? Did he run 24.5-32's or 30.5-32's? Different turbo setup? etc?...

Re: Pro Stocks vs Super Stocks? March 21, 2023 08:51PM
Chris ran a pro stock legal tractor at 8200lbs so 680ci 24.5-32 etc. it is in the NTPA rule book for a PS to run SS you just can’t put big tires on it

Re: Pro Stocks vs Super Stocks? March 22, 2023 02:31AM
I thought Badger State limited the Supers when they ran in the pro stock class. I thought it was weight (they couldn't run 10k not sure if they were limited to 8K) but I can't remember its been a while since Aaron jumped in that class. They don't have there rules online that I could find. I have seen Aaron run a few times with the pros and he never ran away with it. If I remember he over powered the set up most times with the handicap or had mechanical issues. I don't think Aaron is at the level that Blackburns, Ross, or Galot are at though (nothing against Arron the Hulls are great), he can run with them on a good day but those guys are on an entire different level from most.

All that said the Badger State pro stock class has come a long way in the last couple years. Can't wait for Baraboo to see them run at the Children's Hospital Benefit Pull.

Re: Pro Stocks vs Super Stocks? March 22, 2023 05:40AM
This may give some idea, yes it’s 8000# but it is considered by me at least to be a fairly stout running pro stock and it was fairly recent.
[youtu.be]

Re: Pro Stocks vs Super Stocks? March 22, 2023 12:10PM
A top DSS has 5500hp and around 8500ftlb on torque
A top Pro stock has 4500hp an 6500ftlb on torque
So put a pro motor in a super chassis and you won’t be in the top 5

Re: Pro Stocks vs Super Stocks? March 22, 2023 01:24PM
There are more pro at 5000 plus than supers at 5500 and I think your 8500 ft lbs is a stretch

Re: Pro Stocks vs Super Stocks? March 22, 2023 02:34PM
I think that there are more pros that are 5000+ but I think the supers are around 6500 (the top of the line grand-national tractors)
No matter what numbers you may believe to be true, the fact is that at this horsepower its more about getting it to the ground
Pro stock has the weight advantage at 10k but disadvantage with the tires at 24.5ishWinking
The supers have the wider tire at 30.5 but less weight
I would venture to say that the prostocks actually have the grip advantage but not by much.
But for the slight grip advantage that they have, the supers are able to make up it with more power (on average)
Just my 0.02.... and just throwing it out there, there's only one way to really find out

Re: Pro Stocks vs Super Stocks? March 23, 2023 05:31AM
Quote
Puller 1066
I think that there are more pros that are 5000+ but I think the supers are around 6500 (the top of the line grand-national tractors)
No matter what numbers you may believe to be true, the fact is that at this horsepower its more about getting it to the ground
Pro stock has the weight advantage at 10k but disadvantage with the tires at 24.5ishWinking
The supers have the wider tire at 30.5 but less weight
I would venture to say that the prostocks actually have the grip advantage but not by much.
But for the slight grip advantage that they have, the supers are able to make up it with more power (on average)
Just my 0.02.... and just throwing it out there, there's only one way to really find out


"The force due to friction is generally independent of the contact area between the two surfaces. This means that even if you have two heavy objects of the same mass, where one is half as long and twice as high as the other one, they still experience the same frictional force when you drag them over the ground. This makes sense, because if the area of contact doubles, you may think that you should get twice as much friction. But when you double the length of an object, you halve the force on each square centimeter, because less weight is above it to push down. Note that this relationship breaks down when the surface area gets too small, since then the coefficient of friction increases because the object may begin to dig into the surface."

2000 pounds is a huge advantage for only a 12" wide difference.

Re: Pro Stocks vs Super Stocks? March 23, 2023 05:21AM
Quote
The Original Michael
I was going to title this Pro Stocks vs Unlimited Super Stocks, but since there is enough data that diesel or alcohol are basically equal, we'll include both.

A few years ago, Badger State let some of the alky SS pull in their class like Hulls. I think the uss ran at their normal 8000lb weight.

Since then, allowing for tech and tire advances, can a 10000 PS and 8000 SS run together and be about equal on the track?

I don't think so. If so, where would it have been? They ran a USS class at Monroe, WI GCFN a few years ago, but i don't ever remember them mixing the pro stocks and super stocks.

Re: Pro Stocks vs Super Stocks? March 23, 2023 05:21PM
Cain was running a PS that wasn’t on the ragged edge in a DSS class that the top competitors are on the edge blowing things apart quite frequently. More or less playing the Don Deane game: show up to EVERY event, put it away not broken, service, repeat. Never placed above 4th place in an event, yet finished 3rd in points. I’m not sure how much part availability factored into that scenario. Might have been a fluke, but impressive nonetheless. Now throw say Simon’s or conneys’ PS in that scenario I think you could sneak a win or 2 in certain conditions. Do not think they would win a championship though.
I would like to see more PS pull in the DSS class honestly though because it’s frustrating watching a class of only 7 Badass power tractors then having to endure watching a class of 20+ SF. I don’t hate super farm but they seem to multiply like rabbits.

Re: Pro Stocks vs Super Stocks? March 24, 2023 02:30PM
Quote
Jerkmychain
Cain was running a PS that wasn’t on the ragged edge in a DSS class that the top competitors are on the edge blowing things apart quite frequently. More or less playing the Don Deane game: show up to EVERY event, put it away not broken, service, repeat. Never placed above 4th place in an event, yet finished 3rd in points. I’m not sure how much part availability factored into that scenario. Might have been a fluke, but impressive nonetheless. Now throw say Simon’s or conneys’ PS in that scenario I think you could sneak a win or 2 in certain conditions. Do not think they would win a championship though.
I would like to see more PS pull in the DSS class honestly though because it’s frustrating watching a class of only 7 Badass power tractors then having to endure watching a class of 20+ SF. I don’t hate super farm but they seem to multiply like rabbits.

The thing is, the way the original question was asked it said 10K Pros vs 8K supers.

In my opinion, if you send Simon’s or Masterson or Schmuckers out there at 10K ............ they will win......the supers will not be able to overcome the extra weight.

Re: Pro Stocks vs Super Stocks? March 25, 2023 03:02PM
^agreed^

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