Innovative designs over the years June 15, 2023 06:40AM
What are some of your favorite out-of-the-box idea over the years?

Some that come to mind- City Slicker chain drive. Wheeler Rittinger's last tractor (didn't he put driveshafts for each motor), and when Art Arfons tried a totally different tread pattern. Ralph Banter moving the driver around and even mounting an engine between the back tires. Milt Bergman's 6 engine tractor where he sat on the front end.
Even if they didn't work as hoped, it was neat to see guys trying something different.

For Super stocks, was Brent Long the first to come up with the idea of a hemi style head?
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Re: Innovative designs over the years June 15, 2023 07:05AM
Good to mention Bergman, not only sitting on the front end, which was iconic and even decades after quite rare to see at other vehicle, but also putting engines above of each other.

A few months ago I stumbled about a pic of a turbine powered mini rod, maybe of around 1980, with a row-crop style front end (single wheel), the guy in the seat wearing ear caps only, NO helmet, NO cage!

Art Arfons putting the turbines in totally unconventional direction (shafts and crossbox towards front) on the chassis.

People which combine totally different types of engines on a mod, e.g. V12 aero and V8 automotive, or turbocharged Inline 6 with blown V8s (e.g. Nelson).

There was a coverage in the mid 80s in the Pulling Power mag about a Continental V1790 powered mod using TWO (8-71s or 10-71s?) blowers.

Tim Arfons and his Starfire, the probably only one turbine powered 2wd ever.
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Re: Innovative designs over the years June 15, 2023 07:47AM
I would love to see some pictures of the above if anyone can share thanks
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Re: Innovative designs over the years June 15, 2023 08:10PM
Or people introducing new materials.
Using shatter blankets instead of steel for shielding.
Re-casting planetary housings with magnesium alloys.
Building fenders out of glass fibre reinforced plastics, or even carbon fibre.
Using carbon fibre tubes inside of chrome moly tubes for additional strength (Tedder?).
Introducing front end spring suspension axle to reducing bumpy rides (Banter in early '80s?).
Trying mid-offset mounted draw bars on multi engine mods.
Using pre-tensioned steel cable or diagonal struts to compensate chassis twist under increasing reaction torque.
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Re: Innovative designs over the years June 16, 2023 04:12AM
I have been watching videos from the past ( thanks Dan Mayer) and I believe that the present day sleds are the biggest improvement. The pan that drops midway down the track, the reliability, and sleds settings are drastically improved


Dick Morgan

www.PULLOFF.com
Independent Pulling News
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Re: Innovative designs over the years June 16, 2023 07:08AM
Talking about sleds maybe also worth to mention the pan design using a concave shaped surface.
But also every safety related contribution on them, alike box movement control etc.
Maybe one day they will carry on a boom at the pans front end some kind of HI-FOG extinguisher, able to fight fires at the pulling vehicle on demand.
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Re: Innovative designs over the years June 18, 2023 08:44PM
Still thinking about sleds, a while ago I've seen pics of the Australian Mini Rod sled. Looks totally different from everything else. Really compact design. Is it a true wheight transfer machine like most other known sleds? Or is it more a principle of deadweight, supported by axles and they lift up with increased travel distance? If so, really distances controlled via the wheels, or time controlled?

And in general maybe interasting questions:
- Who used as first an Allison V1710 on a mod tractor?
- Highest number of Allison V12s on one mod tractor?
- Regarding the turbo Allisons, has someone ever tried a compound setup, using turbo on the first and the original supercharger in second stage?
- Who used as first a turbine?
- Who had the highest num of turbines?
- Which kind of turbine used Arfons on his first tractor and how much hp it had, regarding curious numbers in past about the first Green Monster tractor, eg. in arcticles etc.
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Re: Innovative designs over the years June 18, 2023 10:05PM
"Highest number of Allison V12s on one mod tractor?"

Four - Holden and the Green Monster Team ran 4 in the 90s

"Regarding the turbo Allisons, has someone ever tried a compound setup, using turbo on the first and the original supercharger in the second stage?"

Yes - quite a few actually. Longnecker e.g. (not sure he was the first?)
Helps torque quite a bit, but the actual maximal throughput through the supercharger isn't really increasing due to its limitation in airspeed/stall speed.
Matter of fact - that's how the Allison was set up in the Lightning. But they used this system for altitude compensation and not so much for extra boost / power.


Floating Finish - the German Tractor Pulling Web Show and EU Live Streams: [www.youtube.com]



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 06/18/2023 10:07PM by Sascha.
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Re: Innovative designs over the years June 20, 2023 02:48PM
Some ideas that were outside the box:


According to one of his family members, they could swap out the engine behind the driver in 9 minutes.

Who can guess what type of engines these are and who drove the tractor?

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Re: Innovative designs over the years June 26, 2023 11:55AM
Brent Long's first head had 4 valves per cylinder. Larry Richwine made the comment that 'the last thing that little tractor needs is more power.' After the 4-valve head became illegal, he made a 2-valve head that worked even better.

Rich Miller had a copy of a Chrysler Hemi on Pegasus when it came out in the 1984.
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Re: Innovative designs over the years June 26, 2023 08:03PM
Richard Millers Pegasus, was that beautiful FORD or?

Thinking about 4valve versus 2valve technology, it reminds me to some similar development history at other high power applications, alike top fuel dragsters. Some people tried 4valve tech a few decades ago, lead to the result that they learnt the effort (system complexity and reliability) isn't worth for the minor benefit in airflow or cyl filling capabilities. For every turbo- or supercharged engine, so to say with a significant forced charge instead of n/a, 2valve tech is absolute best choice. Rule of thumb, 4valve in high power application makes only sense for n/a engines.

To stay with 4valve tech in pulling. Who had the first inline6 agritech or truckbased engine as a diesel or alky with a modified oem 4valve head?
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Re: Innovative designs over the years June 28, 2023 11:16AM
Jake used 4 valve heads on thier Miller beer truck in the late 80s
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Re: Innovative designs over the years June 30, 2023 10:27PM
Seems alot of the above questions still open. Throw another in, about the carbs on old Allison V12, seen on many pictures from the early 80s. Some of them use up to 4 carbs on one engine. What manufacturer/model are these things of?
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Re: Innovative designs over the years July 04, 2023 06:00PM
Regarding, who had the highest num of turbines on a mod, there were several out with 4. Even in EU there had been a few of them, and I'm not 100% sure, but I thought there had been one with 5 of these tiny RR Gnome engines. Another one, who actually ran 4, was originally planned and designed to carry 7 of the Klimov/Isotov TV2-117 engines. That would have been an orchestra of suction cleaners.
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Re: Innovative designs over the years July 05, 2023 12:41AM
Early 2000s version of Barga's Judge ran 5 versions of T53s in GN/CT trim.

CP
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Planned but never built July 05, 2023 01:03AM
Sometimes pullers make plans but rules change or life happens and the plans fall through.

Does anyone know if pullers were planning on building something innovative but fell through? For example, I thought somebody posted that Mike Holden was planning on building a 5 allison tractor, but after 1991 NTPA lowered the weight. Did Banters ever have any designs for an 8-engine mod?

More recently, several years back there was discussion of allowing v8's in the light super class. I believe some guys like Ron Bultemeier had planned to build one but NTPA nixed the idea. Someone can confirm that but I believe it was discussed on here.

I'd love to see someone give pro chargers another try. The GALOT Team tried one in a mini but I'd love to see one in a modified.

My ? for the pulloff board is what innovations were discussed or even planned, but for whatever reason never happened (could be a chassis design, engine combo, tires, anything).



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 07/05/2023 01:05AM by The Original Michael.
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Re: Planned but never built July 05, 2023 03:17AM
I'm not sure, but heard 20 years ago that the Wittinghams (BTPA) thought about a triple RR Griffon mod, but obviously skipped it because of the similar weight downgrade of the European heavy mod class back then.
In the mid to late 90s there was in EU a mod with 3 turbocharged Rover Meteor engines. Although on carbs instead injection, this thing ran really nice.

Also heard about Garden Pullers, loud thinking about trying rotary engines.

What kind of different starter principles have been observed beside the classy electric starter motor?
Beside pressurized air starters, I've also seen hydraulic motors, e.g. driven by a 4-banger.
Has there ever been somebody with a cartridge starter (e.g. Coffman)?
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Re: Innovative designs over the years July 05, 2023 07:43AM
I really like the Gater tractor over in Europe, running the twin V-12 engines with roots blowers. I think they are the only ones doing that anywhere. When it makes a strong pass it sounds awesome, nothing else like it.

S'no Farmer
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Re: Innovative designs over the years July 05, 2023 09:07AM
Yes, Gator is using the finest ever seen blower boosted Meteors.
But there were also a couple of years some Mini Rods with blown Meteors, as well as turbocharged.
Most of them quit because of increasing disadvantages compared to all others Mini Rods with V8, especially COG, insufficient chassis flex etc.
At least for the blower boosted Meteor Minis I must agree, they had an amazing sound, really angry.
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Re: Innovative designs over the years July 06, 2023 08:08AM
There is a light mod (5500lb) getting built in Scotland with 4 Rolls Royce Gem turbines now, should make its first run next month hopefully.
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Re: Innovative designs over the years July 06, 2023 07:27PM
Glad to hear that there's something new in the shed waiting to enter the track.
And god bless that in EU Garden Pulling turbines aren't allowed. Otherwise somebody would already has taken one of this tiny suction cleaner to terrorize the tracks.
I remember a British mod (dark green fenders) with RR Gnome, have seen it with 2 in the light mod, but not sure if it was capable to carry more in a heavier class.
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Re: Innovative designs over the years July 07, 2023 11:17AM
Good ideas
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Re: Innovative designs over the years July 13, 2023 06:23PM
Maybe also nice to recap, which were the major brands beside Firestone, for use of combine tires on pulling tractors, and which of them have tried once and never again. I remember e.g. B.F.Goodrich as well, at several occasions.
Beside that, does somebody also tried, instead of combine tires, wheels of loader?
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