Rolls Royce October 11, 2023 02:48PM
Back in the 80s, I seem to recall a couple of modified tractors that utilized Rolls Royce Merlin engines for power. In airplanes, this was a much superior engine than the Allison. How come they never became as popular as the Allison? Was it a weight issue or durability? I would like to see something different in the modified/unlimited class, and something like this would be pretty cool.
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Re: Rolls Royce October 11, 2023 03:51PM
A lot of the difference in aircraft was because the Merlin had a much better supercharger that gave it more hp and helped it perform better at higher altitudes. I don’t think there’s a whole lot of difference between the two besides the charger. Allison’s are supposedly easier to work on. Getting parts is probably easier for an Allison. I think there are tractors in Europe that still run both. Maybe Sasha will chime in, he’d probably know more about it.
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Re: Rolls Royce October 11, 2023 06:50PM
Allison were plentiful and cheap, years ago, Rolls royce were more scarce and more expensive!
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Re: Rolls Royce October 11, 2023 09:26PM
In a nutshell, the Merlin had the more advanced supercharger, with higher efficiency (and less heat), but that's pretty much all of the advance.
In my opinion the head/valve design of the Allison is nicer (angles!), the auxiliary gears are stronger, the bearings are more reliable.
Amongst the european competition it showed that the Merlins only had a chance to beat the Allison if they were exactly tuned on the right setting.
Most of the used RR Merlins in euro pulling were out of british production and had been equipped with the single stage supercharger only. Most of them used even the original SU or Bendix carb.
Only one of them used a Packard built 1650-7 or -9 with a two stage supercharger and Holley carb. Which ran pretty well if the setting where right, but the team couldn't hold reliability as long as other teams that used Allisons etc.
Another weak point with Merlins is, that especially the ones out of british production, used a lot of different manufacturing methods and changed item properties frequently. That leads to the situation that it's in many cases not just possible to interchange components or item amongst the many different sub-series or models. You can't rely on that e.g. the same bolts of the supercharger gearbox of a 20series engine will fit into a series 100 and so on. Very often they changed the screw threads at many locations across the engine etc. During some years it leads to the impression that each mounted engine was a unique handmade product.
This matter has also been reported from some of the Griffon pullers as well.
Fortunately this had been worked over at the Packard built Merlin engines, where you can rely on that every bolt threads are the same, all parts are interchangeable.
Another interesting point is that some people thought that a Rover built Rolls Royce Meteor (n/a version of Merlin), equipped with turbos should run on the same level as e.g. a Packard built Merlin or an Allison.
At least for some seconds this will work fine, but most internals of the Rover are made of different materials than the older Merlin, so it's expected that things are going off, eating up its bearings etc.
Some even tried to mix both engines, taking either a Meteor with Merlin internals, or using a Merlin, equipped with the better roller rockerarm valvetrain of the Meteor, and turbos instead of the orig Merlin supercharger.
So far for the design aspects.
Strategically, the Allison seems by far to have more universal parts amongst all models and series, so there is more interchangeable stuff inside. Furthermore it seems that the production went some years longer or overall had been made more units. Anyway, there are today still more Allison engines remaining than Merlins. The poor availability of Merlins and its parts, and the pretty high demand e.g. by air racers (mostly Mustangs) leads to astronomical prices within the last 3 decades. I would guess, an overhauled Packard Merlin will cost roughly 3-4 times of an equivalent Allison, and 4-6 times of a Griffon engine.
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Re: Rolls Royce October 15, 2023 11:51PM
The Merlin wasn't really used much compared to the Rolls Royce Griffons which are still on tracks in Europe although not as much. The Whittingham family in England run 2 twin Griffon machines, one on AV-Gas and the other on methanol. The Av-Gas machine runs in the 7700lb (3500kg) class but is allowed to run at 7936lb (3600kg) I believe. The methanol twin Griffon runs in the heavier class, not sure if it would make it down to 7700lb though. Literally no other engine is pulling has the sound or vibrations or a Rolls Royce Griffon!

[youtu.be]
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Re: Rolls Royce October 17, 2023 06:03AM
Griffon sound and vibrations gives goose bumps for sure.

Yes, comparing both, Merlin and Griffon, there were much more Griffons than Merlins around.
As far as I know, in North America, there only had been two Merlins around, one was Canadian Frank&Mary Verheyen (Gold Digger), which had been sold to Europe in the early 80s, equipped with that fine Packard Merlin. The other one was the (also Canadian?) 'Nightmare', which even part time was a combo of Merlin V12 and blown Chevy BB.

In Europe, beside the above mentioned, there were 3 single Merlin in the Netherlands around (Klostermann, Dijkstra, Groenstein), where one of them had been extended for a short period to a twin, and disappeared in the mid/late 90s (replaced by a rare Isotta Fraschini W18 engine).

Beside that, all across EU, over the decades there had been at least a dozen single Griffons around, where almost all of them were Mk58, except one, which was a Mk101 (Sea Griffon). All of them were operated either with carb and AV-gas or methanol injected, using the original supercharger, except one which tried to run with turbos. Furthermore, beside all of the singles, there had been roughly 6 twin Griffons.

Many years ago, the mentioned Wittingham Team purchased the 'Chariot-Of-Fire' of Mike Lawrence, which was a well running twin Griffon vehicle in the early/mid 90s, running in 9000 and 11000lbs Mod. By design, back in the day, it was already supposed to enter the 7200lbs, due to a lightweight Engler tube chassis.
Also, some of the last teams, using Griffon engines, and also one of the most remarkable, is the 'Judge' Team of the Netherlands, running a really competitive twin on AV-gas in the 7200lbs Mod.
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Re: Rolls Royce October 17, 2023 06:57AM
Quote

the 7200lbs Mod.
- it's 7700 lbs Winking


Floating Finish - the German Tractor Pulling Web Show and EU Live Streams: [www.youtube.com]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/17/2023 06:58AM by Sascha.
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Re: Rolls Royce October 17, 2023 10:32PM
Doesn't Dan Dechant run Merlins on his Radical Ranger modified?
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Re: Rolls Royce October 18, 2023 12:47AM
770ci Rangers with Prochargers.

CP
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Re: Rolls Royce October 18, 2023 01:12PM
Quote
Carllson
The other one was the (also Canadian?) 'Nightmare', which even part time was a combo of Merlin V12 and blown Chevy BB.

That was "Mother's Nightmare" of Norm & Mrs. Hodgins. They were great friends with Verheyen's and lived and farmed only a few miles from one another, in southwestern Ontario, between Kerwood and Parkhill, an excellent farming region.

When the TWD debuted, Hodgins installed a Merlin in a dark brown ' 55 Ford pickup with his handmade wood flatbed with side racks.
And Hodgins' and Verheyen's other great Modified pulling friend, Art Helm, installed an Allison in an International Loadstar dark blue steel hauler cab truck.
They were very unique TWD's! But after one pulling season, NTPA rules outlawed them.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/19/2023 07:29AM by Jake Morgan.
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Re: Rolls Royce October 19, 2023 05:49AM
Never heard about the both TWDs with the V12s, are there some pictures somewhere?!
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Re: Rolls Royce October 20, 2023 02:14AM
I have them. I have photographed tractor & truck pulling for 51 years in 13 states plus Ontario and Quebec.
And written lots of NTPA event coverage stories and was the only author of NTPA's "the Puller" magazine "Legends" series stories for a decade.
On my website, scroll back to 2 locations which are 2 different years, where the '70's and '80's photos are.
I'm quite certain those 2 unique V-12 powered trucks are there.
www.DaveDannPhotos.com
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Re: Rolls Royce October 20, 2023 06:28AM
Thanks for the links Dave!
I tried to find them but had no luck. What I've had found instead, are pics of the Helms, Verheyens and Hodgins Mods, as well as one (to me) unknown Merlin powered Mod.


Bowling Green '81:
[davedannphotos.photoreflect.com]
[davedannphotos.photoreflect.com]

Owen Sound '81:
[davedannphotos.photoreflect.com]
[davedannphotos.photoreflect.com]
[davedannphotos.photoreflect.com]
[davedannphotos.photoreflect.com]
[davedannphotos.photoreflect.com]

Bowling Green '82:
[davedannphotos.photoreflect.com]
[davedannphotos.photoreflect.com]
[davedannphotos.photoreflect.com]

Unknown at Horseheads '86:
[davedannphotos.photoreflect.com]
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Re: Rolls Royce October 20, 2023 07:00AM
The Challenger is Bob Dabrowski.

CP
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Re: Rolls Royce October 20, 2023 09:22AM
Aah, interesting, that's the guy who started also around '86 with the twin Allison 'Stinger' , right?
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Re: Rolls Royce October 20, 2023 09:40AM
Yep, that's they guy.

CP
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Re: Rolls Royce October 23, 2023 02:38AM
Doug Voth in Texas is running a Griffon still in his Mod "Griffon Growl" (Formerly Wayne Longnecker's River Rat).
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Re: Rolls Royce December 08, 2023 10:27AM
[www.facebook.com]

[youtu.be]
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Re: Rolls Royce December 09, 2023 05:50AM
real nice run. keep it alive!
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