11:45:09pm, Monday, April 29, 2024
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? for pullers& officials (test puller)
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Moderator Registered: 07/06/2008 Posts: 1,347 |
Hi all. One thing that's a part of the sport, but is horrible when it happens, is the test puller has a monster pass, blows it way out the end, and they reset the sled and he cannot come back.
My ? Is: If you're the test puller, and you can feel you're on a monster pass, would you have the presence of mind to realize they're probably going to reset, do you shut it down early to save from damage, and hopefully talk to the officials into resetting? At least then there is a better chance the guy could come back. As a fan in the stands, I can often tell by 200' on the test pull if it's going to be a full pull/reset... and hope the vehicle is able to come back after the reset. On a related note- Would it be inappropriate for the flag man to wave off a test pull with really fast groundspeed, if the flagman has the presence of mind early in the run that the sled will likely be reset? Would pullers be annoyed or thankful in this situation? Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 04/04/2024 07:13AM by The Original Michael. |
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Re: ? for pullers& officials (test puller)
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Registered: 03/17/2009 Posts: 461 |
With today's modern sleds, every vehicle looks like they are going to go right by you while you're flagging. You have to let the first puller make the full pass unless they get out past 350 or so. It's a judgement call to flag them early and whether you do or don't someone will always not like the call. Just my two cents |
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Re: ? for pullers& officials (test puller)
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Registered: 04/04/2008 Posts: 631 |
Often times a puller will make, a monster pass at some point during a show occasionally it will the test hook. If I am the test hook and make a pass that I know is very strong I really hope for them to look, a one more tractor before making a change, then they will have a better idea if it was a "monster" pass or not. As a driver I can usually tell if it was a really good pass even if it's only 295'. One year at the Enderle I made a pass that wasn't very long, my crew chief wanted me to turn it down, I said nope that was a really good pass and should hold up, as it turned out it did. So you never know just by how long a pass is, it's more of a seat of the pants kind of thing for a driver.
I have even gone to an official after a test pass to tell them to not judge much from that pass as it wasnt a good pass. S'no Farmer |
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Re: ? for pullers& officials (test puller)
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Registered: 08/16/2023 Posts: 1 |
This is such catch 22. I have been at pulls where you are limited on space and if you go past max track length you have to have a pull off. I have heard it said by multiple competitors that if we’re going to pull it off they want to know up front. Others use phrase “ I’m not getting paid to run twice!” There was an instance where I was flagging and the first tractor was past the max length for that event. The next vehicle went past the max length by 40 feet!! We had to reset and I told the owner of the first vehicle I hate to do this to you but we have to reset it. His statement was. “If I can’t build my junk to make two passes in a night I need to get better parts!” There was a second time where the event manager didn’t realize the 2 of the 5 vehicles in the class had scratched. The sled operator miss the setting and we had the other three past the max track length of 350 for that night. All three decided to split the points and money and not come back. I red flagged all three when I knew they were well past 350. And the shortest was 360 and the longest was 375 and I got chewed out for letting them run. So which do you want? Never throw the red flag and the vehicles run 400 feet? Or throw the flag and then someone doesn’t make it in the pull off? |
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Re: ? for pullers& officials (test puller)
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Registered: 04/04/2008 Posts: 1,522 |
2 wheelers could solve this easily,but the entire class would have to agree to do so..
Every entry hooks and drops tp the bottom,it's legal,and your option on a less than 100 ft hpok.every entry does a sled bump and drop to bottom.throw the sanctioning body under the bus,makes a 30 hook class into a 60 hook class,legally.the add tow off time.the sanctioning body would learn real quick the fans and pullers run the entire show.weve all hooked and bump dropped to get a hook later in the evening in a big class.if ya wanto pull the sled the furthest it's the smart thing to do,track changes due to weather minute by minute.lessen the chances of error ,legally |
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Re: ? for pullers& officials (test puller)
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Badgerfan
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That's part of what's wrong with our sport. We build them for one run and done. Listening to an interview with Bill Vories and some other guys, he hit the nail on the head. Back in the day with pull offs you knew there was a possibility of coming back and knew how hard you had to run to make the pull off so you didn't have to run on kill and if you didn't run hard enough to make it that's your fault you try again at the next one. Then in the pull off you wicked it up.
I don't mind being test puller, if I really screw up I have a chance to fix it and come back. Most of the time you know if it was a good pass or not, what gets you is if the track changes during the class. The hard part is if you have that great pass that no one will touch and they decide to reset then you have to come back and try to duplicate it. The part that sucks is if you think the sled isn't set right and you back out hoping they change it and they don't you just shot yourself in the foot. Look at Louisville for example there are several examples of this here. Guys try to save killing the sand pile and back out thinking they are in the pull off and they fall short. or if you follow the flag man who flags you off and you fall short. Your depending on someone who makes the decisions to realize you backed out or backed off early to save your equipment, With no pull offs or no full pull mark set until half way through the class you have to run it on kill every pass you make for the win. Sled resets really hurt when this is the way you have to run and when we build for only one pass. JMO if you want to add excitement and make them live for more than 1 pass bring back pull offs. The events I go to with pull offs the fans are more involved and get pretty excited when it comes down to 2 or 3 vehicles coming back for a final shoot out. Plus then you limit the 400 ft passes back to a more reasonable distance, less distance, less heat, less fear of running out of fuel, and the crowd gets just as excited as someone gets past the full pull mark as they do for the guy who blows one out 400 feet. Your big classes that are harder to stop set it at 350. Your smaller classes set it at 300 to 320. Then there is also a difference for the fans in the stands between the higher and lower horse power classes to. |
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Re: ? for pullers& officials (test puller)
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Registered: 04/04/2008 Posts: 1,522 |
I got an old vhs tape from fonda years ago shotgun red had to make the pulloff,300 ft,then the pulloff run 300 ft,another pulloff run 300 feet,then another pulloff run.
Total of 4 hooks as hard as it could run with no breaks..that's exciting for a fans view. |
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Re: ? for pullers& officials (test puller)
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day later
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You can not tell at 200' if sled is set wrong, you may at 295'. Over the years my 1st pass was going to be the best effort, if they reset the sled the 2nd pass probly won't surpass the 1st! And pulloffs maybe fun to watch, not so fun if you are running 1 of the passes for free! |
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Re: ? for pullers& officials (test puller)
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NYS tractor puller
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Simple solution.
The head track official sets the sled distance in the drivers meeting for the classes . It shouldn't be we will let you know what it is after we run 3 or 5 . Meaning. We are running the track tonight at 320 for what ever the class is . So if your flying down the track at 300 and you run out to 330 . There is no sense . You know there going to reset regardless because on the drivers meeting they already told you it's a 320' track I could never figure out why they don't set the track distance for each class in the drivers meeting. That would be to hard . Plus , it would eliminate the mess Instead there going to run 3-5 tractors and then set it . If you actually know. It still could be a floating finish. |
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Re: ? for pullers& officials (test puller)
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Moderator Registered: 03/19/2018 Posts: 664 |
So if it is a hard 320, is that just for the test hook? He goes 321. Sled reset 1 time and that's it? What if 2, 3, 4 keep doing it? What if #26 in a class of 30 does it?
CP |
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Re: ? for pullers& officials (test puller)
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NYS tractor puller
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If the first tractor goes past the predetermined track length on test hook . If track is set at 320 . Then yes . The head track official better be resetting the sled . You better take 30' out of the sled , and talk to the sled operator. Most variance best to worst is 30' between good and bad tractors . Within reason.
Everyone one wants to float . This causes the issue. But, the problem is the head track official gets to determine what the float is at every pull . So what's in his mind for a number tonight ? Nobody knows until they run tractors . Then, where is the full pull mark ? Is it float or pull off . Or , did the head track official set is so far out that there is no pulloff. I'm betting that's the case so they don't have to deal with a pull off . It's sounds contradictory, but it's not . Put in a predetermined track length in at the drivers meeting. It's case closed . That way ,Every one knows the deal . Rules are rules . 321 doesn't mean anything. You went over . You have to set the ground rules somewhere. It's just like tires or anything. My tread width is 25" can I run 3" over . No . |
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Re: ? for pullers& officials (test puller)
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Moderator Registered: 03/19/2018 Posts: 664 |
Uhmm... what?
CP |
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Re: ? for pullers& officials (test puller)
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NYS tractor puller
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It does matter CPR .
Either way, it will never change trying to explain the predetermined track length idea. I've been pulling for a long time , to long I guess. We absolutely have no say on anything as a competitor anyway . Just wasting my energy. If you ever get a chance to watch nytpa . One night we will be pulling 330s The next pull will be 290s It's easier just to blame the sled operator for the variance in distance. Its also easier just to blame the track Conditions also . One thing , let's just define and remember what a test puller is . Maybe TEST puller isn't self explanatory . |
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Re: ? for pullers& officials (test puller)
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What I’d like to see
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I’ve always thought we should have all the pull offs come back at the end of the show instead of right after their respective classes. That would give everyone plenty of time to cool down in most cases. |
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Re: ? for pullers& officials (test puller)
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FansOnly
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This is why pulling is going nowhere in a hurry. There's such a gap between what the leaders of the organizations want or do, and what the fans would like to see.
Pulling motors 25-30 or even 40 years ago, They made 100 runs a season before being torn down. Today we are swapping rods after 25 passes and going through everything with a comb. Either this sport needs to make a change on the competition end, or on the fan experience end. No side wins, as it is going to only cost more to do so. Make tickets to the events $50 ea, force the promoter and organization to pay a higher purse and you will see your sacred pulloffs more often. Or you won't because of the length of the show is already too long. |
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Re: ? for pullers& officials (test puller)
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Badgerfan
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The comment about making a second run for free is a bit irritating. For one who is making money on any pass? For two we spend thousands or hundreds of thousands of dollars for 1, 11 second pass. Why wouldn't you want a second pass? You wouldn't because of my earlier comment, they are built for one pass and run on kill. What is the difference in the second pass when you take out the possibility damage? A few more gallons of alcohol or diesel and a possible oil change? We've already paid the major expense of getting there and having the tractor or truck.
If we had pull offs we would have to build reliability back into the tractors or trucks. If winning a points championship depended on a pull off would any of us go nah I am not going to make the second pass because it cost too much or say lets flip a coin? No, every one of us would hop in and give it all we had to win that points championship because that's all were fighting for is bragging rights, most would do it even if we knew there was an issue with our tractor or truck hoping it would make that one last pass to win. And that is what brings excitement to the show and fans! |
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Re: ? for pullers& officials (test puller)
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Truth
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Pulloffs are key to fixing the sport. Four-step plan: Cost-conscious build restrictions (increases number of competitors, favors driver talent). Make pullers qualify for the biggest pulls (keeps class sizes manageable, makes the show better, makes regional pulls matter). Pulloffs (fans love it). Better announcing and marketing (fans benefit, increases interest).
Not all of those will work in practice. But some combination of them will. And I think any successful combination will involve pulloffs. |
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Re: ? for pullers& officials (test puller)
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Registered: 06/15/2021 Posts: 18 |
I had an experience last summer that directly relates to this topic. We have a 466 pro farm tractor without a radiator, so I'm always worried about being test puller because it's hard to cool down and I won't want to come back. In fact, this made me want to put a radiator back in.
Went to a pull with a short track, they told everyone at the drivers meeting that anything over 300ft they will be resetting the sled. I'm second puller so I'm happy.... First tractor is a good one, he laid down a monster pass that went 320. I'm thinking thank God I wasn't first. They back the sled up, put another weight in it. I hook on and make a nice run that goes 309. They reset AGAIN. SOAB! lol Luckily, we had a fan and generator with us, so we immediately start cooling. (14 tractors in the class). The third tractor goes 250 and turns down his run. From there everyone was going 250-265. Tractors were getting hammered and not putting on a good show. By the time it gets back to me it's cooled down well enough, so we give it a shot. The lead is 265, I go 270 and win the class. Started out frustrating but ended alright. If I had a radiator in the thing, I wouldn't think twice about resets or pulloffs but I hate leaks..... No right answer here... |
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