Allis Chalmers Hot Farm Explodes At Southern Invitational
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Spectator
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Can someone clarify what failed? Would allowing billet and recast blocks be beneficial in the hot farm class? |
Re: Allis Chalmers Hot Farm Explodes At Southern Invitational
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Registered: 03/25/2008 Posts: 2,590 |
I guess it depend on how we define "beneficial". Billet blocks and recast block are definitely stronger. One of them will eventually come apart in a dramatic fashion just like the "Jus Blowin Cash" AC Hot Farm (Thanks to Thurston Pulling Photos for the great video) but we haven't seen that yet. On the other hand those blocks are not cheap. Allowing them could become a huge financial hurdle for many pullers. Not to mention that having one-off aftermarket blocks is an even higher financial hurdle for off-brands and newer blocks. Whether it would help a class like Hot Farm is a highly debatable. Jake Morgan Owner, PULLOFF.COM Independent Pulling News This page is a free service. The cost is covered out of my pocket. It takes a great deal of time and a fair amount of money to keep this website going. Donations for: photos, classified ads, forum discussion, etc... are appreciated. Side Note: We are no longer accepting PayPal donations. They have changed their terms of service and stated they would fine PayPal users for spreading "misinformation" and "hate, violence, racial or other forms of intolerance that is discriminatory". PayPal did not provide definitions for some of these vague terms. Woke corporate policies regarding "misinformation" could result in an automatic fine of $2,500 which would have been removed directly from the customer’s PayPal account. PayPal did backdown from some of their policies but quietly implemented portions of them in later terms of service. A financial institute has no right to monitor social media accounts or speech. This is unacceptable and I'll no longer do business with PayPal. |
Re: Allis Chalmers Hot Farm Explodes At Southern Invitational
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Spectator
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I don't really see how billet or recast blocks would be a performance advantage as long as there not made out of aluminum, aluminum blocks allow for more movable weight. Billet or recast blocks would eliminate the risk of an explosion like this to ever happen again in hot farm. Not saying all hot farm pullers need to have billet or recast block but if a puller were to start over like the Jus Blowin Cash Team I would feel like it would be best to start with a billet or recast block knowing that this wouldn't happen again. |
Re: Allis Chalmers Hot Farm Explodes At Southern Invitational
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Registered: 03/25/2008 Posts: 2,590 |
Agreed. I'm not worried about performance. I'm worried about driving up the cost of the classes even more.
Disagree. As I said aftermarket blocks should be much stronger and lower the risk significantly but there will always be failures in everything. As some point a recast or billet block will fail. We've seen component chassis failures despite them being much safer overall.
I totally agree that we need to find out the cause of the failure before the sky is falling. Was it a weak spot in the casting? A previously unknown/preexisting/old crack? This isn't a common failure in Hot Farm so is the added cost worth it for the class? Jake Morgan Owner, PULLOFF.COM Independent Pulling News This page is a free service. The cost is covered out of my pocket. It takes a great deal of time and a fair amount of money to keep this website going. Donations for: photos, classified ads, forum discussion, etc... are appreciated. Side Note: We are no longer accepting PayPal donations. They have changed their terms of service and stated they would fine PayPal users for spreading "misinformation" and "hate, violence, racial or other forms of intolerance that is discriminatory". PayPal did not provide definitions for some of these vague terms. Woke corporate policies regarding "misinformation" could result in an automatic fine of $2,500 which would have been removed directly from the customer’s PayPal account. PayPal did backdown from some of their policies but quietly implemented portions of them in later terms of service. A financial institute has no right to monitor social media accounts or speech. This is unacceptable and I'll no longer do business with PayPal. |
Re: Allis Chalmers Hot Farm Explodes At Southern Invitational
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Registered: 11/15/2010 Posts: 35 |
To back up Brian And Daniel This tractor is 100% Legal and owned and operated by one of the best Families in the Sport and has been competing in the Hot Farm Class probly longer than any other Family in the class! I along with everybody else in the class feel like it’s a privilege to know a compete with the Elpers Family! Parts fail in this sport and it just so happen to be there unlucky time Safety Equipment did its job and NoBody got hurt is the only thing that matters and tractors can be fixed They will be back!
Darren Bommer |
Re: Allis Chalmers Hot Farm Explodes At Southern Invitational
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Registered: 04/04/2008 Posts: 1,630 |
The same combo would make more power in a recast. |
Re: Allis Chalmers Hot Farm Explodes At Southern Invitational
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Probably be a wiser idea to determine the root cause of the failure before “needing” billet/recast options. OEM blocks have held a lot more power and torque than a hot farm makes. |
Re: Allis Chalmers Hot Farm Explodes At Southern Invitational
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Registered: 03/25/2008 Posts: 2,590 |
Here's another view from Adam Wilson of Built Diesel Mafia... https://fb.watch/xufBiAC03k/ Jake Morgan Owner, PULLOFF.COM Independent Pulling News This page is a free service. The cost is covered out of my pocket. It takes a great deal of time and a fair amount of money to keep this website going. Donations for: photos, classified ads, forum discussion, etc... are appreciated. Side Note: We are no longer accepting PayPal donations. They have changed their terms of service and stated they would fine PayPal users for spreading "misinformation" and "hate, violence, racial or other forms of intolerance that is discriminatory". PayPal did not provide definitions for some of these vague terms. Woke corporate policies regarding "misinformation" could result in an automatic fine of $2,500 which would have been removed directly from the customer’s PayPal account. PayPal did backdown from some of their policies but quietly implemented portions of them in later terms of service. A financial institute has no right to monitor social media accounts or speech. This is unacceptable and I'll no longer do business with PayPal. |
Re: Allis Chalmers Hot Farm Explodes At Southern Invitational
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Registered: 02/08/2014 Posts: 433 |
I'm going for popcorn now. Every time something like this happens there is a knee jerk reaction. |
Re: Allis Chalmers Hot Farm Explodes At Southern Invitational
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Registered: 04/04/2008 Posts: 1,630 |
I agtee,a very beautiful a-c.always reminds me of "one of the best" pro stock 220s from the 80s |
Re: Allis Chalmers Hot Farm Explodes At Southern Invitational
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Shell Answer Man
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Another vote for making sure of the cause of the failure.
Excess load of nitrous, or nitromethane?? |
Re: Allis Chalmers Hot Farm Explodes At Southern Invitational
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Registered: 12/26/2019 Posts: 86 |
Get a life! ![]() |
Re: Allis Chalmers Hot Farm Explodes At Southern Invitational
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Registered: 10/08/2010 Posts: 19 |
You sir are a dumba$$ ....I will put every dollar I have on the tractor being 100 percent legal ..But clowns like you hide behind your keyboard and stir sh#+ ..We are using blocks that was meant for 160hp not what we are making ..It happens plain and simple sucks but it does ..Can we just we happy no one was injured (driver) or spectators..All the safety equipment did its job .. We build them to last but we do find weak links .. Brian Carrington Endless Hot Farm competitor not a keyboard warrior Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/02/2025 11:18AM by Jake Morgan. |
Re: Allis Chalmers Hot Farm Explodes At Southern Invitational
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Moderator Registered: 03/19/2018 Posts: 707 |
I'm with Brian on this one. Safety equipment all did what it was supposed to. I'd leave it alone and chalk it up to a racing accident. Hope they fix it and come back out, that thing was/is gorgeous.
CP |
Re: Allis Chalmers Hot Farm Explodes At Southern Invitational
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Registered: 01/07/2016 Posts: 9 |
I pull against this tractor almost every weekend in two different associations. They are a top notch family and fierce competitors. I would bet the farm on the fact that this incident happened due to a mechanical failure. To assume or insist that there was any kind of “foul play” or “funny business” is quite comical and considerably ignorant. We all run our tractors as hard as we can, for large amounts of hooks. Sometimes there isn’t any other explanation other than equipment can and will eventually fail. I’m just relieved that no one was hurt. I was standing right beside it when they took it outside and the safety equipment functioned exactly like it should. They are good people and I hated to see it happen to them. Look forward to them getting it back together and competing this summer. It sure is a beautiful AC. |
Re: Allis Chalmers Hot Farm Explodes At Southern Invitational
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Registered: 04/03/2016 Posts: 779 |
I totally agree Charles. |
Re: Allis Chalmers Hot Farm Explodes At Southern Invitational
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Easy Brian, that’s a pretty common assumption as over the years the aforementioned have caused several spectacular displays of pulling tractor devastation. It is not in the least common for a 160 hp block as you say pitch itself at that low of a power level so you’re going to get a lot of critical speculation on the cause of it. Now I don’t know the owners of this machine but watching this video that was my initial thought as well. I assume you know them well and from your response it’s clear that you believe they are on the up and up which is great to hear. Possibly it was stress cracked from freezing in a past life, maybe a water nozzle blew apart and hydrauliced a cylinder. There’s a slight few other possibilities that would cause it at your level. Maybe next time don’t be so harsh and just say you are certain that wasn’t the case here. |
Re: Allis Chalmers Hot Farm Explodes At Southern Invitational
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Registered: 10/08/2010 Posts: 19 |
Exactly why don't you show your info .and I don't care what you think is harsh .. When you know facts you don't care about hurting some nameless shi+ Stirrer ..and I believe 1000% the block just let go and not because of any illegal wrong doing .. Pressure on the block and head every pass would eventually weaken it |
Re: Allis Chalmers Hot Farm Explodes At Southern Invitational
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To answer your question: Because I don’t have to….. Heat and pressure cycles take a toll over time however this power level isn’t within the normal threshold of this type of failure. Quite frankly I don’t care if they put a whole bottle of Nitrous in it or if they could only afford an old cracked prostock block and it left the chat. My concern is that they determine the cause and squelch the recast need for this low of a level class. |
Re: Allis Chalmers Hot Farm Explodes At Southern Invitational
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Wondering
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Was the block girdled? |
Re: Allis Chalmers Hot Farm Explodes At Southern Invitational
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Registered: 03/26/2008 Posts: 521 |
Not for or against Shell Answer Man's comment, but will there be an analysis of the fuel and water by the sanctioning group? That way any suspicions would be put to rest. We see this numerous times, but I am not aware of any sanctioning body doing a thorough forensic analysis of the incident. Maybe it is done and no one releases the results. Most times it is just a couple of people looking at stuff and making what is a "knee jerk" rule modification. We have all seen that many many times, then later rescinded. |
Re: Allis Chalmers Hot Farm Explodes At Southern Invitational
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some questions
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Was this tractor running an Allis 426 block? If so that would have to be the leading consideration since it's a known weak block. No they don't normally fail at hot farm power levels but still the most obvious reason it would seem. If not (I have no idea what their hot farm rules allow for motor substitutions) then you'd have to think this is a freak thing that happened. Either way this is always a bad thing to see happen. The safety stuff did its job but a puller has to start over on a motor and sheet metal at an enormous cost plus they probably get to sit out this season waiting on parts. |
Re: Allis Chalmers Hot Farm Explodes At Southern Invitational
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Registered: 08/16/2023 Posts: 9 |
By looking at the second video I would say they are running a 40 series Detroit. The pump is on the left hand side. The 426 the pump is on the right hand side. And at hot farm it’s not likely to be the AC 516 because of the cubic inch limit. All that to say it’s a bummer that parts failed and hard earned money is now gone. It is a beautiful piece of equipment and I wish them all the best in rebuilding and very thankful that the safety equipment did it’s job and nobody was hurt!!!! |
Re: Allis Chalmers Hot Farm Explodes At Southern Invitational
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Registered: 03/17/2019 Posts: 73 |
How about a tubular universal cage to go over the engine and fasten to the frame rails. |
Re: Allis Chalmers Hot Farm Explodes At Southern Invitational
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Registered: 11/16/2011 Posts: 78 |
Just a couple facts.
Elpers pulling team are a true example of what pulling is all about. God and Family first. Very good people that will go over the top to help anybody in need. And a very good competitor. Tractor runs a 40 series engine. Tractor is 100% legal Engine had been in tractor sense 2008. All current safety equipment was installed and worked as it should. Thank God no one got hurt. That tractor will be back out. Rusty Oeth Playin with Fire Hot Farm |
Re: Allis Chalmers Hot Farm Explodes At Southern Invitational
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Any pass in pulling can be the last pass on engine from first pass to 20, it can happen to anyone don’t kid yourself ! |
Re: Allis Chalmers Hot Farm Explodes At Southern Invitational
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Registered: 03/27/2008 Posts: 29 |
Hair line cracks develop in any brand of block over time and depending on the severity they can be very difficult to see/find. Almost any block will fail eventually when stressed above its design limits.
We discovered multiple hair line cracks in Hurricane Allis' pro stock block (Detroit 40 Series) many years ago and luckily in time before it totally let go. We discovered that our tie down system bolts were loosening after a run. This was due to the extreme stress being put on them during a pass which caused the tie bars to stretch. After a pass and once the engine cooled, the tie bars relaxed/contracted and the bolts were no longer at the proper torque (loose). We didn't have a second block machined and ready to go; therefore, we re-torqued the tie-downs and then did it after every pass. This method worked for us and we were able to limp this cracked block along for another six passes or so. Once we had this damaged block out of the tractor we found even more cracks externally and internally. It was just a matter of time before it let go. Tie-down systems seem like overkill for the lower horsepower classes but in these days with all classes making more HP than even five years ago, they would be cheap insurance to add to any engine combination in my opinion. Hoods and side panels are not cheap, let alone the cost of a new engine. |
Re: Allis Chalmers Hot Farm Explodes At Southern Invitational
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Lwatermann
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Cracked the block in the 5000. Wouldn’t have noticed if for not having pump off. Went from pump to starter. |
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