Re: A puller responds

A puller responds November 16, 2009 02:54AM

frenchie

The reason we, the "Red Parade" wanted to eliminate the "Big Green Monster" John Deere is because he is way over the cubic inch; he is twice as much as what we have at 540; I don't think it's fair for the rest of us. Besides the issue with the cubic inch we have to give him an extra 500 lbs, and that's too heavy for the 10,500 lb class. We thought between 8,500 and 10,500; 1 ton of weights will be easier to handle and the same between 10,500 and 12,500. We put a limit at 540 in the prostock class because we did not want some 600 cubic inch or more to come and pull with us; and we should have done the same thing in the altered stock.It's not because we're cry babies or whiners, but that John Deere tractor came with 531 c.i. or 619 c.i. and it should have been left alone. Of course we lost the vote at the meeting; you guys brought a whole damn bus full of people to vote for you; most of them were not members, and shouldn't have been allowed to vote. The green tractors are made for working on the farm and the red tractors are made for pulling.So just leave the big green monster behind the barn where it belongs; we don't need boxing gloves or alcohol to settle this matter; what's fair is fair. You guys are way too tall for us; you would have beat us anyway without the gloves; the same as with your "Big Green Monster!!!"

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Re: A puller responds November 16, 2009 03:29AM

Bill R.

Registered: 05/05/2008
Posts: 124

let me start by saying I am not in your club... You make some good points Frenchy. We have a wildabeast of a 6030 down here that is it's own animal. hard to find a spot for it. personally I recommend it be limited to 12,500 class and above in the hot stock. don't want to turn it away, but no chance of anyone competing with it except another big cube tractor. we run 3000 rpm which makes it even worse. still, do not want to turn anyone out.

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Re: A puller responds November 16, 2009 09:36AM

red owner

how can a tractor be over on cubic inch when there was no limit? as i remember the wieght issue was talked about because of the addition of the mandatory rops last year. anyone with a clue knows the big deere can and has been beaten,i know of a red one that did at several events and it still pulls with atpa.as for the non members that did the voting ,you must have some knowledge that the board in command doesnt have because they asked for a show of hands on friday to see who was yearly voting members and that would have been the time for you to speak up,but of course you may have been wrong. there was alot of support on friday for the big deere and the owner,but that should tell you and the club where most of the tractors reside.you cant change cubic inch rules without grandfarthering the one that has been pulling for as long as it has, it would be the begining of the end for that club as a whole{remember where all the tractors are from}.two years ago i asked about running a cage on an altered tractor and was shot down big time, but now one can only guess that 2 red ones and 2 deeres will be running in the new class and the altered thats why the allowing of cages is ok now.so with 4 tractors that cant get ahead of the big deere cant compete with prostocks they are going to run with are you going to change there rules as well.your going to have to spend some money anyway you look at it.always easier to pick someone else apart than to spend the time on your own.i was at the meeting when the motion was made to lower the wieght and the comment that followed was he was running heavy for seven years,but that was denied when he was asked directly about it later on.the club may not take notes at the meetings but i do.and most people could see the two with biggest issuse's passing notes back and forth all night. i also wrote down who made the motion on the sfi clutch and flywheel and he denied it friday after the meeting as well.stan was certainly wrong in what he did ,but he called a spade a spade.he did not hide behind the key board.

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Re: A puller responds November 17, 2009 04:13AM

Fan in the stands

Frenchie, I'm not positively sure who you are but I have a pretty good idea based on your comments about the "Big Green Monster", if I'm not mistaken I believe that you are probably the owner of the "Red Horse" or maybe "Scotty's Toy" or "Mr. Frustration" but if you are the owner of the "Red Horse" the previous owner of the tractor ran a 540 in this class he was neck in neck with that 6030, Spencer won some and Chief won some, neither one dominated the other. I hate to tell you what to do but your tractor would place better if you pulled the two heavier classes than it will in the 8500 lbs class. Maybe you should ask Spencer to drive it for you. Chief is a great guy, and of course he wants to win, but did you ever see him crying and whining when he was getting beat, he works his ass off to get his tractors to all of the events but he also works on a few others and he always makes sure everyone else is ready to go before he finishes getting his own ready to go, he takes no compensation for all the work that he does, he just wants to see as many competitors out at the pulls that he can, this tractor pulling sport needs some more people like Chief. This sport is about having fun, ATPA has 4-5 events a year and only three of them run with ATPA rules, and I know Chief goes to 15 or so a year and it would be 20 if there wasn't so much breakage, I'm quite sure he pulls his altered tractor a lot more than any of the others from our area, we as fans love to watch that tractor run, he puts people in the seats and that it what its all about, without the spectators we wouldn't have tractor pulling to enjoy. This past year he really had that tractor dialed in, and he won alot, but I know he has paid his dues. Remember when ATPA only had three tractors in the altered class for a few few years it was Chief, Joe and Spencer, and the class has now grown to be a good sized class in this area and of the three that originally kept this class going Chief is the one who is still out there competing. All you critics should just shut up and put up, the ATPA altered class would not even be there anymore if it wasn't for the guys from VT, you would have a class like the single engine mods, and the Pro stocks, no one to compete against, check out there competition list on the website. Kudos to "Red Owner", great post.

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	Re: A puller responds November 17, 2009 05:30AM
WIZ	need to bring the 24.5 tires back into the picture that would add more competiors. still can't win even when you added the20.8 tire rule a couple of years ago. now its cubic inch this class will be farm stock when your done. Reply Quote

	Re: A puller responds November 17, 2009 06:03AM
chief6030 Registered: 05/02/2008 Posts: 79	You are obviously not much of a "WIZ" becasue you are allowed to run 24.5 uncut, and it has been that way as long as I've been apart of the club which is nine or ten years. Right from the rule book. ALTERED STOCK RULES CONTINUED: 6. Maximum rear tire width: 6,500lb--18.4, 8,500lb--20.8, 10,500LB--24.5, and 12,500lb--24.5. Reply Quote

	Re: A puller responds November 17, 2009 06:20AM
LowBudgetPuller Registered: 01/27/2009 Posts: 48	WIZ Run your 24.5s chief will still put 60ft on you with the Big Green Monster Reply Quote

	Re: A puller responds November 17, 2009 08:29AM
WIZ	your right mis print I met cut tires I dont see many enhanced tractors with uncut 24.5 this is just letting the playing field have more players the ones that wont take the 24.5 off " CUT" instead putting them in a prostock class or only having a 20.8 or 24.5 uncut class Reply Quote

Re: A puller responds November 27, 2009 02:33PM

ACLLSS puller

Registered: 09/24/2008
Posts: 176

As an outsider looking in this is what i can deduce . the 6030 needs 855 cubes to stay in front of a 540-600 ci IH and that ih got beat at another pull by a 505 ih with a 3x3 on a power track(do some homework) . You guys are your own worst enemies. come on here its tractor pulling for gods sake and in the spirit of competition grow a set and play nice together. Heres a thought; the 12500 class can stay unlimited and the 10500 could be 540(or any realistic cubic inch-lets face it here boys how many other places(states) allow open cubes.The 6030 can still pull and its been proven he can be beat, correct.As far as your voting goes your bylaws should only allow one vote per tractor on rules that affect individual classes.This is a simple solution to a class that is probably going to sink if you dont become more realistic(history proves this). If you cant agree on on that try a 3000rpm limit on anything over 600 ci vs open rpm under 600 , it does even the playing field a little. Now about the safety ; sfi flywheels are a must ,its your own asses on the line here,like to know who insures you without them!!!! Just a few thoughts from another puller who has seen it before.

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Dear Frenchie November 17, 2009 06:48AM

Scoob Van De Weert

Frenchie, you may want to check yor memory because the 6030 has been beaten several times by IH's and even an AC. We run 3 tractors with ATPA consistently because we work on them countless hours. The 6030 runs the way it does because we have been tuning it in for 7 years now. We do this for fun and love doing it. It's pretty ridiculous when you feel the need to try and eliminate the tractor you can't beat. Go 640 with your IH it will be very competative. The only reason you want a limited is so we have to build another motor for the 6030 and you don't have to get your hands dirty or reach in your pockets to build another one. Oh yeah, all the people that came up from Vermont were actually members that voted. I only recall you tractor coming out a couple times this year when we had ours at atleast 15 despite exploding clutches, trashing blocks, spinning rod bearings, atc. My brothers and I love this sport and do every thing we can to keep our tractors and others together and pulling, maybe you should start speaking some english and try to do the same.

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	Re: Dear Frenchie November 17, 2009 09:15AM
BDH	As a red puller i agree with you. I feel you are the kind of guy this sport needs more of. If a guy thinks he won't have to keep upgrading and improving his tractor to compete he needs to find a new hobby. Also its a hobby! If a guy gets beat he should take that as a challange to improve his tractor or driving skill. Reply Quote

Re: Dear Frenchie November 17, 2009 09:24AM

All JD

I think all you guys make good points. Frenchy too. No doubt it's hard to compete with those cubes, but it also is no ones fault they never set a limit and now is not the time to do that if a guy is a big presence in the class. all you good old boys that are pulling up there are very competitive. None of you seem to be complainers, just stating the facts Mam as some one used to say. My suggestion is that guys think carefully before they decide they want to trun in that class, cause it ain't gonna be cheap to beat the 6030, no matter what you brung... green red, whatever. A real good high cube more efficient small block will be in the hunt, but you're still gonna be 200 cubes or more behind, so better hope you have a good combination working for you. I here about them vanderweerts way down south.. !!!

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Re: Dear Frenchie November 17, 2009 11:19AM

Anonymous User

the red vs. green battle has been going on since tractor pulling was started. Why is it in motorsports that when one consistantly beats the the rest that the competition is so quick to criticize them. I wonder frenchy, if your IH was at the front all summer would you have been at the meeting friday night crying about chiefs 6030. Makes a difference don't it. It's not his fault that there is NO CUBIC INCH limit in the class and that nobody else chooses to run a big block deere. I know of a couple guys running IH's and one in particular that can run with cheif so why can't anyone else accomplish this feat. Seems funny that the red horse ran neck and neck with cheif when spencer owned it even at a cube disadvantage. Maybe you should get him to pilot it again. As for the "bus load" that came out to support the Van de Werts friday night, we ARE club members. Some are freinds, some are competition, but they all came over not only to support cheif but to discuss rules in their own respective classes as well. You've all got to admit that the 6030 is a crowd pleaser. The Van de wert family like it or not are major players in this sport. The dues have been paid and it's cheifs turn to sit at the top just like others have in the past. Who knows maybe next year someone else will be dominating the class but for now hats off to cheif and his 6030 for a great season.

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	Re: Dear Frenchie November 17, 2009 01:49PM
Anonymous User	I spoke with the Vt guys at Boonville N.Y. last july, seemed like a good bunch of guys to me, and if I remember correctly 1 of the Deeres had to be towed back on the truck to go home. Anybody that does the amount of traveling that those guys do, just to have fun and play in the dirt, are O.K. by my acount. Reply Quote

To Red Puller November 17, 2009 02:53PM

Travis McKnight

I read through your response and would like you to know that a few of your statements are not true and you should get your facts straight before you comment on them. First I cannot speak for the 2 red tractors that might be moving up to the superfarm class but I can for the 2 green ones. One of the green ones is myself and the other is a friend of mine. Neither of us are choosing to go superfarm because we can't deal with chiefs 6030, its because we would like to be able to compete with NYTPA and like the superfarm class. I will not be running the altered stock class either. We don't plan on changing all the rules for the pro-stock class . We tried to come up with a class that could give the pro's more tractors to play with and be fair to both parties involved. All of the interested superfarms and exsisting pro's had a prior meeting to discuss rules that we think might work. Why don't you try to build a good running superfarm and compete with us? You will soon find out that just a good built engine for a superfarm cost alot more money than it cost to build a whole altered stock tractor. It is not just a scape goat class as you think it is, As for the SFI flywheel and clutch motion, I was the origanal one that came up with the idea and made the motion last month, and made sure it was voted on this month. Whats the big deal? If you can't afford at most $4500 (wet deeres are more money) then park it! I figured i would catch alot of flack about it but it is what is best for the club and all the members. Why take something that could injure or kill someone and not do something about it. Do and internet search on other clubs around the USA and see how many have a class over 3000 rpm and dont have SFI rules. We all like to pull and have fun so lets keep it safe for everyone involved. Last but not least I like to see all the VT guys come to NY to pull. They give the classes size and have some nice pulls in VT. They also have the too hot to farm class which is a nice addition. The Chiefs crew is a heck of a good bunch of guys and I dont want to see them leave. Maybe instead of pointing your finger at everyone else for hiding behind the keyboard, you can post your REAL name, but thats ok I have a pretty good idea who you are anyway!

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	Re: To Red Puller November 17, 2009 03:35PM
Moline Oliver Cockshutt Registered: 01/17/2009 Posts: 207	The SFI rule is the only way to go above 3000RPM, unless they`re trying to get people killed. I saw a tractor explode the flywhhel in the 70`s and it wasn`t pretty. Reply Quote

	Re: To Red Puller November 18, 2009 09:15AM
pullerdeerejohn	Maybe Gayton should bring his five super stocks so he only pulls against himself. Reply Quote

	Re: To Red Puller November 19, 2009 02:40AM
followme1086 Registered: 03/13/2009 Posts: 89	Travis, Is this new class in addition to the prostock class or a combination of the existing prostock class? I did not see a cube limit in the rule book for the pros. If I understand correctly altered tractors can run a cage now and must have non cut tires as always. thanks in advance By the way I to think the VT boys are a class act! Reply Quote

Re: To followme1086 November 19, 2009 05:50AM

Travis

It is a combination light pro / superfarm class. With only a few pro's and a few new superfarms we figured it would be best for now to try and run one class. The rules are following the new NTPA light pro. 540 cu.in. any turbo, p-pump, any manifolds, stock head 8500lbs. Superfarms will follow ESP rules, 9300 lbs 640 cu.in 3x3 with an intercooler. Maybe this class will not match up, we tried to pick a place to start. It was also left the class can be changed throughout the season if needed by the pullers in the class. Altered stock is still no cube limit, now need sfi clutch and flywheel, no cut tires and you can run a roll cage if you want. If no roll cage must have the ROPS. Hope this maybe clears it up for you.

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	Re: To followme1086 November 19, 2009 10:05AM
followme1086 Registered: 03/13/2009 Posts: 89	Thanks, that clears up everything, sounds like the begining of a good class. Are you running the 44 in superfarm? Reply Quote

	Re: To followme1086 November 19, 2009 10:13AM
Travis	No the 44 is staying the same. New tractor in the shop for the superfarm. Reply Quote

	Re: To Red Puller November 19, 2009 06:27AM
jerr	nytpa runs this class simliar now besides the p pump. and I know when there was a good limited pro no superfarm tractor is going to beat them and that was running the A pump like capital punishment now a P pump changes to favor them more just a thought but always looking for more hooks. Reply Quote

Re: A puller responds November 17, 2009 02:18PM

RB1466

Its too bad to see a couple of crybabies out there trying to stir up trouble over getting beat!! Being a one year member of the club and going to the pulls,its very easy to see that the Van De Weerts are first class pullers and they also bring the the FANS!!! Sure we all get beat at some point,but the opportunity is the same for everyone in the sport.So suck it up boys/frenchie and get your hands dirty like the Van De Weerts do,and go pulling not whining!! (GO BOYS GO)

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	Re: A puller responds November 18, 2009 08:32AM
BIGSTUFF	samething Reply Quote