01:02:34pm, Sunday, May 05, 2024
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Would LLSS work in Midwest area?
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Posts: 376 |
With the popularity of this class in the Ohio, Kentucky, and Indiana area I was wondering if it would work in the Iowa, Wisconsin, and Minnesota areas? This class looks to have decent wheel speed and lots of color. Anyone know how much HP these are making? |
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Re: Would LLSS work in Midwest area?
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Anonymous User
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I sure think it would work anywhere in the midwest. Wisconsin has it. Outlaws even has it to an extent. |
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Re: Would LLSS work in Midwest area?
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Posts: 376 |
Do they allow alcohol tractors in Wisconsin? |
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Re: Would LLSS work in Midwest area?
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pulled
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HAAAA! Thats FUNNY. |
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Re: Would LLSS work in Midwest area?
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Diesel fan
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As much as I like the alcohol tractors I don't think it's funny that some don't allow alcohol in their rules.It's wrecked other classes so why even go there.I don't see too many diesels in orvtpa anymore.There's a reason for that.Gordyville the diesels get the best of them but I think it would be different outside.I'd rather watch a full class of Badger State tractors over orv.They all run. |
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Re: Would LLSS work in Midwest area?
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Registered: 03/25/2008 Posts: 2,526 |
Rivalry between fuels is one of the things that makes the class great. I love watching the fuels battle it out, there are people who love one fuel and hate the other and vise versa and that’s what puts fans in seats. One of the most talked about and most interesting tractors this summer was Red Line Fever Lite. The fuel rivalry was awesome to watch in the NTPA LSS class. Rivalry is a good thing and ORVTPA has an excellent set of rules that allow for some great rivalry between fuels.
I personally believe that the diesels have a slight advantage in ORVTPA LLSS but the alcohol tractors have more numbers. I think the ORVTPA rules would/will work in every region in this country. The ORVTPA LLSS is one of the hottest classes going anywhere. Jake Morgan Owner, PULLOFF.COM Independent Pulling News This page is a free service. The cost is covered out of my pocket. It takes a great deal of time and a fair amount of money to keep this website going. Donations for: photos, classified ads, forum discussion, etc... are appreciated. Side Note: We are no longer accepting PayPal donations. They have changed their terms of service and stated they would fine PayPal users for spreading "misinformation" and "hate, violence, racial or other forms of intolerance that is discriminatory". PayPal did not provide definitions for some of these vague terms. Woke corporate policies regarding "misinformation" could result in an automatic fine of $2,500 which would have been removed directly from the customer’s PayPal account. PayPal did backdown from some of their policies but quietly implemented portions of them in later terms of service. A financial institute has no right to monitor social media accounts or speech. This is unacceptable and I'll no longer do business with PayPal. |
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Re: Would LLSS work in Midwest area?
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Anonymous User
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I agree with you 100% Jake. That class is one that would be really cool to watch up here in WI, but I don't think the Badger State guy's like the taste of alcohol..... Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/23/2010 03:24AM by 3 Brothers. |
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Re: Would LLSS work in Midwest area?
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Anonymous User
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I might be a little bias, but I LOVE eci-badger state rules. Jake, we have rivalrys they aren't fuel,but they are turbos. We allow 410 single 3x4, 315 and under twin chargers 3x4. And the rules couldn't be more perfect! I have never seen a class where you have two different rules that work so close together. The class could be won be anyone any nite! I agree that alcohol has ruined other classes and I would hate to see that happen to this one. I like the fact we do not allow de-cubeing it brings in different motors that you won't see in any other class! I also like the 24.5 tires, they just look like they belong on the tractor. Just my two cents, but I pull in the class and wouldn't change a thing! And I think many of my competitors feel the same. |
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Re: Would LLSS work in Midwest area?
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llss 2
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West central wisconsin has a llss class that runs badger and orvtpa rules with 24.5 limit. Championship pulling series |
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Re: Would LLSS work in Midwest area?
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Registered: 03/26/2008 Posts: 214 |
Jake ,how do you figure that the Diesels have an advantage? Out of somewhere close to 60 hooks this season in ORVTPA, Battle of Bluegrass and KTPA. I can only remrmber 5 wins with the diesels. Maybe Esdon should build one and show us How to do it . Right now the diesels are running hard enough that they aren't staying together. I'm not wanting to change anything, just don't see where you think they have an advantage based on this years performances. |
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Re: Would LLSS work in Midwest area?
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Anonymous User
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llss wheel speed is ranging from 85 to 100 mph we run alc on a power track alc is good on atorky track desiel tkes over mosy of the time |
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Re: Would LLSS work in Midwest area?
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Color Man
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Midwest allready has it with ECI, Twin States, and Badger State. They compete very well at Gordyville every year. No alky burners that I now of, but very good 410 C.I. diesels. Check the stats on Klints page. |
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Re: Would LLSS work in Midwest area?
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Prostock Puller
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Why not just put limits on the classes you have now instead of starting all over? Example LPS the prostock class built up and allowed more then what most are willing to build, so they start a new class and now the Pro class is hurting for numbers. Start a llss class and loose more lss. The trend needs to move some of the classes back some or restrick them now instead of starting new classes and letting the others drop tell they have 3-4 tractors and finally just drop the class. Some midwest clubs have 504 and 466 limited classes now and really the only difference is the weight. So why start a new class that really has the same horse power just lighter? For some it will be alot easier to find iron that will fit a heavy class and cheaper then to try and lighten some of the others. Just my to cent I'm on board to fix what we have now instead of starting all over. |
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Re: Would LLSS work in Midwest area?
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Face in crowd
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I agree with you. Restrict the classes a bit in order to build up the numbers. Trouble is, that's a tough sell for the big money guys to accept. Roberts has tried limits on some classes and you know how well that has gone over with some... |
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Re: Would LLSS work in Midwest area?
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not close to outlaws
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Outlaws has the same engine 504 cubic inch limits as the other light super classes accross the country such as NTPA. They just do not allow components. Limited light supers such as ORVTPA has 360 cubic inch limited on alcohol and 460 cubic inch on diesels. Outlaws do allow up to 640 cubic inch and a single 4.1 turbo also in the class. |
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LLSS not in Ohio, yet....
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Currently there is no organization that I am aware of within the borders of Ohio that sanction a LLSS class. However, I think it would be well accepted if somebody like COTPA would pick it up. I believe that there are a few tractors in Southern Ohio that run ORVTPA and a few pulls here and there but no. I for one am hoping that they come to the Buckeye state soon under ORVTPA rules. |
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Re: LLSS not in Ohio, yet....
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I WOULD ALSO LIKE TO SEE THE LLSS CLASS WITH ORVTPA RULES IN OHIO. WE STARTED THE LLSS CLASS IN MICHIGAN A FEW YEARS AGO AND NOW HAVE 6 PLUS TRACTORS AND ALOT MORE INTERESTED IN BUILDING FOR THE CLASS.
WE HAVE WENT TO KENTUCKY AND PULLED WITH ORVTPA AND THE BATTLE OF THE BLUEGRASS AND THINK IT IS A AWESOME CLASS. IF WE COULD GET SOME PULLS IN OHIO WE WOULD GO THERE MORE OFTEN BECAUSE OF THE CLOSE PROXIMITY. IT WOULD BE GREAT TO HAVE THE CLASS AVAILABLE IN ALL MIDWEST STATES INCLUDING INDIANA, OHIO, ILLINOIS, ETC. AS FAR AS DIESEL VS. ALCOHOL GOES, WE NEED TO KEEP THEM IN THE SAME CLASS, AND ADJUST AS NECESSARY. IT WORKS WELL IN KENTUCKY, IT JUST SEEMS LIKE THE ALCOHOL HAS THE ADVANTAGE BECAUSE THERE IS 5 ALCOHOL TRACTORS TO EVERY 1 DIESEL. THERE IS ALMOST ALWAYS 1 OR 2 DIESEL TRACTORS IN THE TOP FIVE. WE DO NOT NEED ANOTHER ALL DIESEL CLASS WITH ALL RED AND GREEN TRACTORS, MAYBE AN OCCASIONAL OFF COLOR TRACTOR. THE ORVTPA LLSS CLASS HAS THE MOST COLOR AND BRANDS OF ANY CLASS IN THE NATION.WHAT OTHER CLASS DO YOU SEE THE FOLLOWING BRANDS ALL TOGETHER: FORD, JOHN DEERE, ALLIS CHALMERS, INTERNATIONAL, MINNEAPOLIS MOLINE, MASSEY FERGUSON, OLIVER, COCKSHUTT, CASE, DEUTZ AND WHITE. |
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Re: LLSS not in Ohio, yet....
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Anonymous User
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If u want to see some LLSS run in Ohio some of the ORV guys have been talking about going to georgetown oh next weekend and running in the LSS class should be a good show |
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badger st llss rules are welcome in ky
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llssrr
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Its not official yet but orvtpa was willing to allow tractors under badger states llss rules to compete at 6000ibs with them for a limited number of hooks this past season. it would be a very wise move to make it official being there is hardly any class where a diesel motor under 470 cid has a chance at being competitive. it would help the diesel numbers and bring alot of color and old diesel supers out of the barn. if theres any ky llss pullers that appose this merger of rules, please speak up and voice your opinion. |
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Re: badger st llss rules are welcome in ky
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Anonymous User
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if orvtpa would allow the 410ci and under twin charger rule id start changing mine to a llss for sure .... i can do 410 ci but cant do 470ci |
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Re: LLSS not in Ohio, yet....
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Realy?
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Who has the deutzs and olivers in orv?All the diesels left.Looks to me alcohol has taken over that class to. |
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410 cid and under diesels
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llssrr
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There is no deutzs or oliver diesels in orv. thats the point i am making. yeah it would be great to have them. the number of spark plug tractors in ky's llss classes has gotten bigger because this is one of only a few classes in the U.S. that allows them to compete. kinda like badger state has alot of small cube diesels , hence the fact that it is one of only a few classes that a diesel engine under 410 cid has a place to compete. |
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Re: LLSS not in Ohio, yet....
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JUST PULLED AGAINST A OLIVER 1800 AT SHELBYVILLE LAST WEEKEND. ORVTPA HOOK.
HAVE NOT SEEN A DEUTZ YET, BUT IT IS JUST A MATTER OF TIME. |
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Re: LLSS not in Ohio, yet....
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HOW MANY MORE DIESEL ONLY CLASSES DOES THIS COUNTRY NEED?????
THERE HAS TO BE 20 OR 30 DIESEL TRACTORS FOR EVERY 1 ALCOHOL TRACTOR IN THIS COUNTRY. THE NTPA CURRENTLY HAS 5 DIESEL ONLY CLASSES, 1 ALCOHOL ONLY, AND 1 CLASS THAT YOU CAN RUN BOTH. |
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Re: LLSS not in Ohio, yet....
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Registered: 03/25/2008 Posts: 2,526 |
Technically you can run Diesel in both the Open Super and the Light Super although nobody seems willing to spend 3/4 of a million to build a 650 CID Diesel 903 Cummins with 4 giant chargers and EFI to pull in the Open Super, but I digress.
I personally like the little twin charger diesels in Badger State. I know most ORVTPA pullers will jump and yell and break a blood vessel in their foreheads when someone mentions twin-chargers, but I think the addition of the small twin-charger diesels would really be an interesting addition to their already excellent LLSS class. I believe ORVTPA has the best rules for the LLSS, but the small twins in Badger state put on an excellent show as well. I also personally favor the 24.5 tires on a LLSS but that’s just a personal preference thing. The LLSS will continue to grow nationally, and hopefully the rules will gradually become more unified. My advice for any club looking to pick up this class: Adopt the ORVTPA rules, add the Badger State rules that allow twin-chargers under 315 CID and you’ll have an excellent class. We almost have that in NY, but they decided to tweak the rules and not allow conversion of a diesel head, no decubing, and they gave the alcohol tractors more cubes… my advice is don’t mess too much with a good thing: ORVTPA + 1/2 Badger State = Great variety and absolutely everything in a LLSS class. "MH49" should be getting that Cockshutt ready for this class because hopefully it will come to Ohio soon. Hopefully COTPA will use the ORVTPA + 1/2 Badger State recipe with no other tweaks. Jake Morgan Owner, PULLOFF.COM Independent Pulling News This page is a free service. The cost is covered out of my pocket. It takes a great deal of time and a fair amount of money to keep this website going. Donations for: photos, classified ads, forum discussion, etc... are appreciated. Side Note: We are no longer accepting PayPal donations. They have changed their terms of service and stated they would fine PayPal users for spreading "misinformation" and "hate, violence, racial or other forms of intolerance that is discriminatory". PayPal did not provide definitions for some of these vague terms. Woke corporate policies regarding "misinformation" could result in an automatic fine of $2,500 which would have been removed directly from the customer’s PayPal account. PayPal did backdown from some of their policies but quietly implemented portions of them in later terms of service. A financial institute has no right to monitor social media accounts or speech. This is unacceptable and I'll no longer do business with PayPal. |
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Re: LLSS not in Ohio, yet....
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WELL SAID JAKE.
I LIKE THE 2 TURBO RULE AS WELL. WE ALLOW THAT UP HERE IN MICHIGAN. I WOULD LIKE TO SEE A 2 TURBO RULE FOR THE ALKY TRACTORS AS WELL, SOME OF THE LITTLE TRACTORS HAVE A HARD TIME STAYING TOGETHER WHEN THEY GET ABOVE 300 CUBES. MAYBE MAKE IT 270 CUBIC INCH LIMIT WITH 2 TURBOS FOR ALKY. THE COCKSHUTT WILL BE READY!! |
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Re: LLSS not in Ohio, yet....
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Color Man
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Jake I agree with your twin turbo - less than 315 C.I. idea, but why not also include the 410 C.I. with a single turbo? If you watch the Badger State group from week to week the twin 315 vs. single 410 is a toss up as far as who beats who.
I think we should all pay attention to the 6400 and 7000 lbs LLSS classes Klint has set up for Gordyville this year as opposed to just one weight of 6700lbs. In my mind the outcome of the ORVTPA tractors vs Badger State / ECI / Twin States tractors will be interesting - that is, will a wieght difference running the same tractors on the same track have any effect on the outcome. My guess is that it will. Yes I realize it is an indoor, shorter track but it still should give us more info on "blending" the different groups together - which I am not all in favor of just yet, but it is interesting discussion if nothing else. |
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Re: LLSS not in Ohio, yet....
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Um
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This class needs to stay at 6000. 6400 or more is not a lite class. It's not hard to build a tractor and keep it under 6000. |
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Re: LLSS not in Ohio, yet....
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llssrr
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nothing sez super stock class better than a pair of 30's |
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Re: LLSS not in Ohio, yet....
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Anonymous User
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Nothing says LITE like 7000lbs! if your going to run a lite class make it lite...a LLSS class sholdnt weigh more then a LSS come on guys! and i do like the small cube twin chrger diesel rule...but if your going to build one to 410 why not just go to 470...I think ORV has the best set of LLSS rules out there, the 2 chager smokers could bring alittle more color to the class along w smoke, thats what the class is all about!! |
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Re: LLSS not in Ohio, yet....
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Anonymous User
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The idea behind 410 is to include 401, 404, 407, all three colors (diesel) and not have anyone try to decube a 1066 and get it in to the 6,500lb. class, or less. that was ECMTPA thinking in the LLTS. Safety also plays into that in not gutting a big tractor to make it light. that was also when the only alcohol tractors were in the SS class. I think 470 opens up a whole new can of worms, with all due respect to what's working. :} The A/C and Oliver guys can due the 315 with 2 3x4's. There's 5 colors at a competetive level. That was our original mindset. |
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Re: LLSS not in Ohio, yet....DT 408 ?
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EFV
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So a DT 408 IH wouldn't be legal ? Or is 410 rule really no 400 series IH
rule ? Given that the International Harvester agricultural line no longer exists after 1985 shouldn't a truck engine be a legal factory replacement ? |
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Re: LLSS not in Ohio, yet....DT 408 ?
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pulled
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That is exactly what they do not want. A cheap competitive IH. But it is OK for a Deere to decube a 466 because it is not red. |
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Re: LLSS not in Ohio, yet....DT 408 ?
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Posts: 347 |
Yes, it would surely make sense to decube a JD 466 with about a billion JD 404's to chose from. |
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Re: LLSS not in Ohio, yet....DT 408 ?
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Anonymous User
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I was telling only the intent then. Right or wrong there are decubed 414's in the class in east central. 408 was short lived I think. I thought the 408 was a 300 sized truck block that I don't believe is available anymore, but it's been years since I have checked. Look, I was only giving a mindset on reasoning at the time, not giving an opinion or expressing a feeling. If it's 410, I don't care what it is. If it is 410. I do think there are plus's when the overall casting size is larger, such as in the head flow(300 versus 400),but I'm not here to debate this. Do whatever your assoc. allows and good luck.
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Re: LLSS not in Ohio, yet....DT 408 ?
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TomO
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Navistar "408" (from the family of 408-466-530 early to mid 1990's) was never used in any farm tractor that I am aware of.... AGCO used the 466 and 530 versions but not the 408. |
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Re: LLSS not in Ohio, yet....DT 408 ?
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?
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What is the Alkie limit there? |
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Re: LLSS not in Ohio, yet....DT 408 ?
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llss fan
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370 cubes 3x3 charger |
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Re: LLSS not in Ohio, yet....DT 408 ?
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Anonymous User
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Please don't forget that most of the colors in this class, whatever the version, faded away years ago. You are correct, at least IH had a truck motor to fall back on in some form. Unless you run a Cummins it's more than likely late 80's -early 90's or older, depending on brand I think.
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Re: LLSS not in Ohio, yet....DT 408 ?
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wondering
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What would a Cummins be leagal in? |
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COATPA will never adopt it.....as long as.....
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COATPA Puller
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Cronkleton runs the show. He hates anything with alcohol. Plus that would take him back to his light super years when he couldn't whip himself out of a wet paper bag. Cronkleton is as bad as any other leader in the sport today, his way or no way. So don't look for COATPA to be adding it any time in the near future. Plus that class would out grow his Classis Super Sucks class and mean less hooks for him. |
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Re: LLSS not in Ohio, yet....
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I think there is room for both the 470 diesels and the 410 diesels.
Just allow the 470's like ORV and also allow the 410's like Badger. Just allow the 410's to use intercoolers and the 470's cannot. It is a good equalizer that allows both. |
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