Hercules 478 v.s Cummins 8.3 May 06, 2011 09:42AM
Im looking to build a tractor for a 466 cubic inch class with 3x4 turbo and unlimited rpms. Im building an oliver so i have two options the hercules 478 or cummins 8.3. Which is better. which has more potential. More reliable more air flow, better parts so on and so on. Can a 478 hercules compete? I want to know which one would overall be better and any other help on building an oliver puller. Rearend, gears, parts, knowledge, hints...... Thanks alot
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Re: Hercules 478 v.s Cummins 8.3 May 06, 2011 11:03AM
If its for a 466 class then they are both over cubic inch. Start with a 6.7 Cummins and go from there if it were mine. Alot of performance parts for the 5.9/ 6.7 on the shelf
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Re: Hercules 478 v.s Cummins 8.3 May 06, 2011 12:24PM
I would sleeve the 8.3 and get a set of pistons made, more stroke = more tq. j.m.o.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/06/2011 12:29PM by hogtown puller.
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Re: Hercules 478 v.s Cummins 8.3 May 06, 2011 02:14PM
Geronimo is absolutely right they are both over your cube limit. I also agree on using cummings for a 466 class. There is a 8.3 decubed to 466 in my area and its been nothing but a headache. Cracked sleeves is an issue. If you want to use 8.3 or the 478 maybe a mod.turbo class.
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Re: Hercules 478 v.s Cummins 8.3 May 06, 2011 06:23PM
If im not mistakin some of the military versions of the 478 hercules were i think 465 cid. They were the exact same block as the 478 just smaller sleeves. I believe the 478 is 4.562" bore and 4.875" stroke. The 465 is 4.5" bore and 4.875" stroke. If you could find a set of 465 sleeves and pistons they will go right in the 478 block. That will take care of the cubic inch problem. The hercules engines are very well built and I think it would be the best option. Just my opinion, but on the down side you probably wont have much luck finding off the shelf bolt on high performance parts for this engine. But this will more than likely be a problem on the 8.3 cummins also. You will have to figure some things out along the way and have some custom parts made. But thats half the fun of building a real green tractor!
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Re: Hercules 478 v.s Cummins 8.3 May 07, 2011 12:54AM
The military hercules engines were ld-465 but the cubic inches was still 478. The "L" stood for liquid cooled , the D stood for diesel, the 4 stood for four stroke, the 6 stood for six cylinders and I can't remember what the 5 stood for. A few military ld-427 engines were built but they were 4.312 bore x 4.875 stroke. All of the ld-465 engines were 478 inches but some came with turbos and some without.

The military blocks were real similar to the tractor blocks but they were not identical. The tractor block had more holes drilled and tapped for mounting the water pump and the block was machined differently for the oil pressure regulator.
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Re: Hercules 478 v.s Cummins 8.3 May 07, 2011 02:11AM
5.32 stroke sure does look good in the 8.3 , stroke = tq. , that is what we need in this class
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Re: Hercules 478 v.s Cummins 8.3 May 07, 2011 03:02AM
I no that im over cubed but there were alot of cummins 5.9 engines built for this class and they just couldnt compete so now everyone that was running the 5.9 cummins went up to a 8.3 and de stroked it. I no stroke equals torque but when your running 5000 rpms the long stroke does nothing. Everyone is destrokeing it to keep the bore as big as possiable that way they can get more airflow and turn more rpms. Im just wondering if the hercules could compete. The hercules would have a bigger bore but it is not a crossflow head and the cummins is. How much difference would that make. Thanks
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Re: Hercules 478 v.s Cummins 8.3 May 07, 2011 06:08AM
i would think if the herc could compete in any diesel class,it would be on the track competeing now.to me the herc has been out for almost 40 yrs and surely by now it has been tried at some point,and deemed not a good option.same for the cat diesel too.
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Re: Hercules 478 v.s Cummins 8.3 October 17, 2011 11:46AM
wn oliver just won the superstock class here with a 478 herc on alcohol!!!! im building a 2150 for limited pro here with a herc 478 if u need info on gears or motor work give me a shout i will build u one as for destroking a 478 i wouldnt i found its always better to stay the same or go bigger the 5.9 can be a real screamer but u need to do the proper head work and have the bottom end done right going with cheaper parts is not the way to go when it comes to pulling what r u building for a tractor? can u run a class that is atleast 478 cubes? i would do that if possible the only downside to a 478 herc is the rear cylinder in the top of the block seems to be a very popular weekspot there are pics and posts on this a few months back on here look up eddy kerr or cody agent on here if u want 8.3 info
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Re: Hercules 478 v.s Cummins 8.3 May 07, 2011 11:26AM
You got lots to learn if ya think your gonna turn 5 grand with a 3 inch charger(maybe on the line) use the 8.3 make it 4.310 bore then you can run with all them red ones
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Re: Hercules 478 v.s Cummins 8.3 May 07, 2011 11:06PM
My Cummins started life as a 359 ci Cummins and now has 444 ci. I like it, alot more torque.
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Re: Hercules 478 v.s Cummins 8.3 May 07, 2011 11:42PM
Marshall Watkins has run the big Herc in the Light Limited turbo classes in PA. I don't have contact info but he could be a resource to speak with. From the Troy area i believe.
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Re: Hercules 478 v.s Cummins 8.3 May 08, 2011 03:07AM
A herc could be built to compete, but VERY expensive! Alot of custom machining. A cummins 5.9 stroked or de-stroked 8.3 to get cubes would be much simpler, and cost effective. Head flow on the old hercules just will be difficult to match what a cummins could potentially accomplish. I personally would love to see some 478's out pull the competition. good luck!
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Re: Hercules 478 v.s Cummins 8.3 May 08, 2011 05:13AM
You haven't looked at the heads on a herc if you think the cummins will out flow it. The only way to make the cummins flow is cut the side out of it so you can find the ports. As far as custom parts they are way ahead of the cummins with stock parts. They have a much stonger crank rods and bottom end. Have seen a few crack beside the head bolts but that probably wouldn't be an issue with small bore.
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Re: Hercules 478 v.s Cummins 8.3 May 08, 2011 06:10AM
I would look at the 5.9 cummins with a 30 over bore job and the Destroker stroker crank. With a little machine work taking the intake manifold off the 5.9 head you can get to the intake ports and really open them up. The other big plus is parts are cheep and easy to find.
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Re: Hercules 478 v.s Cummins 8.3 May 09, 2011 03:26AM
I was wondering if there was there is a diference in an ag herc block and a military block. I have heard both ways and just wondering
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Re: Hercules 478 v.s Cummins 8.3 November 24, 2023 02:05AM
The 8.3 works good at 505 cubic inch but problem
Is getting air to the heads can only open ports so much due to injectors only way to get them to flow really good is switch injectors to other side and change injector angle then you can make serious power or run recast heads very expensive with stock intake and manifold can only get about 4000 rpm out of them
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Re: Hercules 478 v.s Cummins 8.3 December 03, 2023 02:32AM
What tractor or farm equipment did the 478 come in. I know a guy who has one complete that I think was on some kind of power unit?
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Re: Hercules 478 v.s Cummins 8.3 December 03, 2023 08:53PM
Oliver 2050 n.a
Oliver 2150 turbocharged
White 2-135 turbocharged
I forget the white model that was n.a



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/03/2023 11:16PM by mh49.
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Re: Hercules 478 v.s Cummins 8.3 December 03, 2023 11:18PM
The White 2-155 also had the big Herc. and there was an Oliver self-propelled chopper that used it as well.

Patches, are you thinking of the 2-150 which had a NA 585 Moline in it? I can't recall any other big Whites that were NA.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 12/05/2023 11:38PM by mh49.
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Re: Hercules 478 v.s Cummins 8.3 December 05, 2023 03:11PM
Thanks
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