My question - does “electronic fuel injection” help or hurt the sport November 11, 2013 09:48AM
There is a topic that has not been addressed very much, yet could have a huge impact on the sport. The topic I am referring to is the “electronic fuel injection” [efi] that is now appearing on some tractors. I am not well versed on the subject to have an opinion, rather I would like to hear the pro's and con's of the issue.

I am never one to stop the technological advancements of the sport, yet I wonder if this is a move in the right direction. Does the use of efi make the class/classes more or less competitive,

Link to opinion Electronic Fuel Injection article


Dick Morgan

www.PULLOFF.com
Independent Pulling News
Reply Quote

Re: My question - does “electronic fuel injection” help or hurt the sport November 11, 2013 11:03AM
Manual fuel injection no problem electronic different story. I like the hands on approach of tractor pullin were the mechanic has to do the thinkin and not a laptop!! The electronic engine of today took away gear heads and turn em into geeks... Let it happen to gas motors the diesels are soon to follow..LETS GET BACK TO THE NUTS AND BOLTS OF OLE SCHOOL PULLIN....
Reply Quote

Re: My question - does “electronic fuel injection” help or hurt the sport November 11, 2013 10:14PM
I think your comment about a labtop is kind of funny. Correct me if I am wrong, but I believe almost everyone is running some form of a data logger.
Reply Quote

Re: My question - does “electronic fuel injection” help or hurt the sport November 12, 2013 01:13PM
Dick,
I think this is a great topic. It looks as though we got the typical response of, "things are fine the way they are", and we also have heard that some are very in favor of embracing new technology. Having been to less than a handful of events this year, it seems that nothing has changed in more than a decade. Tractor pullers are a flock of sheep with little or no idea how there tractors work. They usually try to copy someone else or buy someone else's problems. Most have a hard enough time getting their engines to run and usually put little or no effort into setting up their tractor. On one side it might help the guys who rarely make it past 200 feet, but also might put the better competitors even further ahead. Bottom line, you can't turn poor mechanics and competitors into better ones by allowing in new technology. The very worst scenario is giving an advantage to alcohol tractors that diesel tractors can't make use of.

Changing the rules should be done to make competition more even, cheaper or because someone has an unreasonable advantage. This could be a great improvement, but when their are so many other problems that need addressed on most vehicles, why ask anyone to invest in new fuel system technology?
Reply Quote

Re: My question - does “electronic fuel injection” help or hurt the sport November 14, 2013 02:02PM
DATALOGGER... A item that tells you how the motor ran... It not running it...
Reply Quote

Re: My question - does “electronic fuel injection” help or hurt the sport November 11, 2013 01:14PM
dick,isnt efi already allowed on a diesel if it only hooks in the uss class.i think its been legal for a good while but nobody has tried it
Reply Quote

Re: My question - does “electronic fuel injection” help or hurt the sport November 11, 2013 02:40PM
Dick, to answer some of your questions in your article, I guess I would want to know which classes you are referring to.
Reply Quote

Re: My question - does “electronic fuel injection” help or hurt the sport November 11, 2013 03:50PM
The diesel truck classes have had successful electronic motors running for over 15 years now. Tractor pullers tend to be much more backwards and don't want to embrace technology, after all intercoolers are still a big no no for many classes even though they save parts, make more power and have been around commonly on farm tractors for almost 50 years. They would rather spend $6000-10000 on a trick turbo or pump than to embrace anything else that can be a benefit. If you look at TRUE farmstock pulling the electronic motors dominate the heavyweight classes. Deere 8R's pull like crazy and they don't smoke a drop . Of course they are technological marvels compared to most pulling tractors as they have electronic engine and transmission controls, intercoolers, fuel coolers, variable geometry and even twin turbos, all stock!!! It is kind of sad to me that farm tractors are way more advanced than pulling tractors. I think it is high time many of these classes got out of the 1960's and started using technology to build better performing machines.
Reply Quote

Re: My question - does “electronic fuel injection” help or hurt the sport November 12, 2013 01:25AM
Just a quick question, Have you done any figuring on what it costs to build one of these outdated 1960's era pulling tractors? A lot of classes are already limited by the cost of building one of them, so lets go change everything so we can spend even more!
Reply Quote

Re: My question - does “electronic fuel injection” help or hurt the sport November 12, 2013 01:37AM
I was thinking primarily of the alcohol Super Stocks. I guess another question I have is how much more advantage is the electronic fuel injection for alcohol than diesel, if there is an advantage.


Dick Morgan

www.PULLOFF.com
Independent Pulling News
Reply Quote

Re: My question - does “electronic fuel injection” help or hurt the sport November 12, 2013 01:11PM
Dick, First who is currently running it? alkey or diesel in SS classes, i would like to see them run sometime maybe!., but EFI for diesel or alkeys could help in some areas!! and will for sure Hurt the Sport! maybe another class (all goes unlimited) lol, all the people with alot of $$ and if parts were readly avalible and its proven somewhat, it would sell like hotcakes, and IF its outrunning everone currently,it may dominate over time, goes back to if you have the$$ to run.NTPA go nuts,but that leaves the locals out by at least 50+ percent of current tractor owners not being able to switch over and to compete in there classes!! your parts off ntpa ALWAYS find there way local and anymore unless they spend$$, alot of current owners won't stay in,is my guess. This is another rule type stretching thing that will hurt certain classes AND loose more pullers, this reminds me of another class killing idea, like (not real) way to hi-- cube limits aimed Against certain brands not able(no more block) and Helping other brands with all kinds of meat to go huge!!,thats a class killing bad rule and it is currently killing our local ss-diesel class now,and are being overrun by real good running alkeys and big cube diesel JD's... its gotten out of control a bit here, ALL needs leveled out- so all brands are equaled more fair for all colors to be able to compete fairly and keep it all cost effective!! more pullers+ more crowd+more cash for all involved...
Reply Quote

Re: My question - does “electronic fuel injection” help or hurt the sport November 13, 2013 04:36AM
[www.facebook.com]

Cornhusker Deere II has efi on board. Duane is playing with it yet.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/13/2013 04:38AM by brianfuhr.
Reply Quote

Re: My question - does “electronic fuel injection” help or hurt the sport November 15, 2013 12:57AM
Brian.. I believe Neb Busch pullers gave the OK for EFI in their Mod class.. It will be interesting to see what next season brings..

The ability to automatically control the mixture.. Boost controller, timing control would be nice.. RPM limiter for drivetrain breakage.. If you saved one engine I would think you would have padded for the system..



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/15/2013 01:02AM by JDGnut.
Reply Quote

Re: My question - does “electronic fuel injection” help or hurt the sport November 16, 2013 12:40PM
Quote
Dick Morgan
I was thinking primarily of the alcohol Super Stocks. I guess another question I have is how much more advantage is the electronic fuel injection for alcohol than diesel, if there is an advantage.

Dick,
I was told today by a fellow puller that I got myself in a hornets nest here by asking what class you were referring to. lol Thanks for your response to my question though. Now what I am going to say is my opinion and that's all it is, an opinion. fwiw. I myself don't believe in traction control at all. It takes away from the driver's skill as a driver. As far as efi on an alcohol motor, yes I can see some advantage to a computer tuning a motor as it is pulling BUT what more do we give an alcohol motor? And I run alcohol. As a fan and competitor, I am missing the diesels pull with the alcohols. So let the diesels have it, more power to them if they can get it to work. This is what the 2 organizations that I pull with(ISP and ITPA) have allowed. EFI diesel only. I am not sure if any diesel superstock tractors in the 2 orgs. have tried it yet. But, the option is there. I do not have a dog in the fight with PPL. And Mike Sandefur is a friend of mine. I don't fault him for trying something new that was allowed because no rule said he couldn't. But, everyone needs to step back and look at the whole picture AND future. What my concern is, in the future efi on alcohol could hurt the class because fans might get tired of seeing the same tractor, person, or clear fuel win. Fans still want to see smoke. Now, that being said, how can traction control be policed on a diesel? I myself have no idea.
Reply Quote

Re: My question - does “electronic fuel injection” help or hurt the sport November 12, 2013 02:13AM
Who knows? Where will it go? Only where we allow it to. I don't want to change this subject although it will go hand in hand with the discussion and that is cost. With new technology comes additional cost, will the cost of the new technology add to the overall savings in the long haul? We need to embrace changes that will save competitors money in the long run. The cost of our sport needs to flatten out rather than be on a never ending climb. What we allow and where, will always be a tough answer. My guess is it will be shunned by many as we tend to be a somewhat bullheaded crowd.
Reply Quote

Re: My question - does “electronic fuel injection” help or hurt the sport November 12, 2013 03:57AM
Its a lot easier to cheat with electronics , newer farm tractors boost fuel imput electronically as the rpms drop to keep it to the limit its set ,as in tractors I personally think keep the electronics to data loggers as they are valuable tool but no efi at all on the engine and performance
Reply Quote

Re: My question - does “electronic fuel injection” help or hurt the sport November 12, 2013 04:50AM
Great topic Dick! From a fan and mechanic point of view here's my 2 cents. As some have metioned in this topic, going electronic takes away some of the true R+D and tuning aspecs for the old school wrenchers out there but in todays day and age, every thing motorized has been in a way updated to electronic technologie for both eficiency and reliability reason... heck even lawn tractors you buy at your local home and garden center have EFI. Today's "tunning" is done with laptops by "geeks" its just where we are as a far as our technological evolution goes. Now dose it belong in pulling is an intresting question. I depends on how we as pulling fans and builders view our sport. Is our sport about having the most advanced piece of equipment on the planet like say F1 racing... i would say not. Its more like Nascar were we strive to reach a pinnacle under a certain set of rules based more on safety than engine technologie. Is this the correct path to take is anyones guess. Would electronics be more economical in the long run for builders than the current way of doing thing? probably not as the ability to make power would push the HP cap even higher causing more engine failures than we see now. Then again if the eletronics are used in a smart way to help prevent engine detonation tought oil pressure engine temerature boost control etc.. there could very well be benefits. Will we see this happen tomorrow... i dont think so. probably the best place for this technologie to infiltraite the hooded classes is though the USS alky tractors. I doubt anybody will be ready to retrofit their current machines just yet until some one has the B@lls to try it and do a bunch of exibition pulling for a couple years to prove the effort. If anything i would love the hear from the street Diesel truck guys who had access to electronics from the get go an let them tell us if they could live without their electronic goodies. I think as the youger generation of gearhead/geeks start taking over daddy's hobbies we will see more and more push for the electronic goodies. Will the current lact of technological evolution hurt the sport in the long? in my opinion it will ...just not for a while anyway.


2 poor 2 pull :-(
Reply Quote

Re: My question - does “electronic fuel injection” help or hurt the sport November 12, 2013 10:51AM
I think the guys at PPL think that the next generation of pullers are the kids that love messing with there rice burners or are the guys that love diesel truck pulling...well it isn't ..when those guys figure out that pulling is hot, dirty, dusty and your dragin a sled at 30 MPH or less for little or no money they will have nothing to do with the sport,,, pulling, was ,is and always will be a sport for rural farm America,,,kiss,,,keep it simple stupid!!
Reply Quote

Re: My question - does “electronic fuel injection” help or hurt the sport November 12, 2013 02:56PM
Its not the wrong crowd, the problem is the non progressive farmer mentallity that most tractor pullers carry. What would you think if you seen a class of alky supers where 90% made a good pull instead of 20%? Would you think less of the class if a tractor didn't detonate & blow the intake off of it or put a plug out & washed a cylinder down or stopped up a nozzle & melted a piston? EFI would solve 90% of these problems. As with anything, it would take some learning because most of the current tuners have not experienced 100lbs of boost. But that is just a curve. The benifits will out weigh the costs in better drivability & breakage. I know Sandefur has tried it, but that is just one experimenter. EFI is proven & there are systems out there that are capapble of running an alky tractor. It will create a better show for the fans & reduce the maintence nightmares that Alky tractors have become. Some will argue the cost factor, but honestly... when these guys are giving nearly $30k for a Bamber head, what is $10K for a fuel sytem to keep form burning a hole in it? It will bevome a tuner's game once again instead whoever can afford to rebuild their engines every week & have a couple spare long blocks sitting around. EFI will come.
Reply Quote

Re: My question - does “electronic fuel injection” help or hurt the sport November 12, 2013 11:48PM
EFI isn't the problem, TRACTION CONTROL is the problem! And Big Stuff 3 is all about Traction Control. I don't always do the best job, and like everybody else I have those events were I didn't figure out something quick enough and I cant make a pass, but if you noticed even the Chizek/Blackbourn camp had a somewhat trying year! But I can tune my tractor with mechanical fuel injection and it doesn't detonate, and I take pride in the fact that I can drive my rig, from leaving the line on a poor track to on the wheelie bars at the best tracks, if I get beat because another competitor did a better job that night or just out horsepowered me I can deal with that, but losing because somebody checked a box on their laptop or picked a better timing curve than me, has zero interest to me! If this allowed to run as is I will not run PPL in 2014.
Reply Quote

Re: My question - does “electronic fuel injection” help or hurt the sport November 13, 2013 02:24AM
There I$ more to thi$ $tory than meet$ the eye...$eems like the power$ to be really want thi$...the real que$tion I$ why!!!!
Reply Quote

Re: My question - does “electronic fuel injection” help or hurt the sport November 13, 2013 03:38AM
This is mainly about tractors and trucks, but I will tell you this--if I had the option of putting EFI on the "Evil Twin Too", it would happen in a heartbeat. No more melted turbine wheels, no more burned pistons, no more holes in heads, etc. And I am not a computer geek--hell, I don't even own a cell phone! JW
Reply Quote

Re: My question - does “electronic fuel injection” help or hurt the sport November 13, 2013 04:19AM
As far as efi on a diesel, what does a billet sigma, lines, and nozzles run? I thought someone had said at one time that a billet sigma was $25K alone? EFI would HAVE to be less expensive than that!! I really think efi would be cheaper across the board in the long run, as the ecm could keep you at the edge, but not go over it. The allison's in Europe have been having alot of success with an efi system built in Missouri of all places!
Reply Quote

Re: My question - does “electronic fuel injection” help or hurt the sport November 13, 2013 04:56AM
Thanks for all the great feedback on this topic.
I think one the of the issues that no one has talked about is if, PPL allows the electronic fuel injection and NTPA and other state and local associations do not where does that put the pullers that have installed it. Will the NFMS allow it or not? Does it limit the number of hooks that the electronic fuel injection equipped tractors can attend? Does it limit the resale value of the tractor? Is this one of those rules that needs everyone to follow to make it viable? Seems like there are a lot of questions that need more time and honest dialog before this rule can be implemented.


Dick Morgan

www.PULLOFF.com
Independent Pulling News
Reply Quote

Re: My question - does “electronic fuel injection” help or hurt the sport November 13, 2013 04:27AM
In the diesel classes the efi will not have the fueling capabilities of a sigma or cyclone pump, the real gains would be seen in the classes limited by injection pump size.

I think the idea that on the alchohol tractors there would be no tuning is not correct, there will have to be someone that is able to tune the program to work properly in certain situations, ideally you could have multiple tunes for different weather scenarios and even ones that are more ideal for track conditions.
Reply Quote

Re: My question - does “electronic fuel injection” help or hurt the sport November 13, 2013 04:20PM
It is not difficult at all to build a common rail system that can outflow and do it in less degrees of crank travel than any sigma style pump. The limiting factor is how fast the injectors can respond, some of the older style injectors can't cycle much faster than 4500rpm effectively. The top notch Piezo ones like used in the Audii R10 tdi can work effectively at the rpms that diesels pull at.
Reply Quote

Re: My question - does “electronic fuel injection” help or hurt the sport November 14, 2013 08:30AM
The problem I see as it applies to the Light Super class is that it is suppose to be a driver's class and if you allow EFI you are allowing traction control. Instead of shoving a rule threw without full knowledge of it's impact why not educate all of us on the benefits and how it will be policed by tech officials to know what is legal and illegal. I agree with Stormy, if the rule is implemented with PPL, you will not see me at any of there events. I know this may not seem like a big loss as I only pulled 1 national event on there schedule, but I have debating since the season ended on trying to follow PPL or NTPA complete national schedule, if this rule is implemented I guess it will make my decision easy. Another rule to further divide a class that needs numbers is not good for the sport.
Reply Quote

Re: My question - does “electronic fuel injection” help or hurt the sport November 14, 2013 09:07AM
Very well said "Commander" and "Stormy"! Excellent points, at least from a LSS perspective.
Reply Quote

Re: My question - does “electronic fuel injection” help or hurt the sport November 14, 2013 10:20AM
I agree 100% with Bob and Jason on the traction control part that this will open up and I believe that will hurt the class more than the efi would help the class
Reply Quote

Re: My question - does “electronic fuel injection” help or hurt the sport November 14, 2013 11:10AM
I also agree with Bob and Jason. I will not be pulling with PPL if E.F.I. is allowed in the class.
Reply Quote

Re: My question - does “electronic fuel injection” help or hurt the sport November 15, 2013 12:22AM
First let me say I am a proponent of technology advancements in our sport. This said the advantage of traction control would not be healthy for competition and the show. Thus if electronic fuel injection incorporates a traction control advantage, I agree with Mike, Jason, and Bob.
Reply Quote

Re: My question - does “electronic fuel injection” help or hurt the sport November 15, 2013 02:59PM
Would someone please clarify" Traction Control" for me? Correct me if I am wrong as I am trying to figure this thing out but Just because an ECM is being used, it doesn't mean traction control is being used, does it? My thought on traction control would be when you are using a wheel speed sensor and at the same time using a real time, ground speed sensor, whether it be a GPS signal or a radar signal and sending these two inputs to an ECM where the ECM deciphers percentage of wheel slip , then it makes adjustments to Boost, fuel, ignition,etc. in order to bring the ground speed and wheel speed together for a more manageable ratio. If these two inputs are not introduced to the ECM, how do you get "Traction Control"? As expensive as parts are getting, it looks as though EFI would eliminate a lot of the trial and error and save a lot of parts and eliminate down time. Don't claim to know anything about this topic, just would like some clarification on it from someone that knows. Thanks
Reply Quote

Re: My question - does “electronic fuel injection” help or hurt the sport November 15, 2013 04:05PM
I am also against traction control. Yes the big stuff is capable of it, but so is virtually every data logging system available on the market. The only way to eliminate the possibility of traction control is to eliminate data recorders and go back to a points type ignition system. I'm not saying that is the right thing to do, but in the past experimenting with new things was just part of the game. Even nascar is allowing efi and it is quickly becoming the way of the world. All I'm asking is that people keep an open mind and learn about some of the benefits before quickly deciding to ban something that if given the chance will make pulling easier, less expensive, and more competitive. It's easy to dislike change if your constantly winning. That all be in said I am more that willing to answer any questions ( respectfully conveyed) about my experiences with efi.
Reply Quote

Re: My question - does “electronic fuel injection” help or hurt the sport November 16, 2013 03:33AM
From a fans point of view I am all for a better show. But I took from most of the pullers that posted about this, that efi is something that is not fully understood or that the ability to be cheated would be increased and not really have a way of policing it. Maybe it is a rule that needs to be looked at closer before a final decision is made. If mr. Sandefur is already using it maybe he can continue for a said amount of time to further educate others on efi. Also people from Big 3 should be willing to put on a seminar or something for pullers to attend so that it can be understood by all. I am not an expert nor do I have a dog in the fight. But I am a huge fan and would prefer to see pullers and there governing bodies work together to make tractor pulling better. This doesn't need to turn into a pissing match accusing people of whining.
Reply Quote

Re: My question - does “electronic fuel injection” help or hurt the sport November 15, 2013 07:56AM
I am gonna agree with Jason, Jason, Bob, And even Wilhite on this. Traction control has no place in our sport. If this is allowed we mite as well have monkeys drive them (no offense Mr.Madge lol) It will turn the light class into a super farm type class Nothing against super farms just Boreing to watch.
Reply Quote

Re: My question - does “electronic fuel injection” help or hurt the sport November 15, 2013 01:24AM
Well for my sake, I hope PPL does allow EFI, would make the NTPA LLS the best we have seen in years. It might get more vehicles than 6 at each event. I would love to see 20 LSS at Tomah again back when PPL didn't have LSS and the RN guys ran most if not the entire GN circuit (Rocket and Bomb)
Reply Quote

Re: My question - does “electronic fuel injection” help or hurt the sport November 15, 2013 02:04AM
Why is EFI the only thing that can be used for traction control? Wasn't there a big traction control controversy in the TWD class that was ignition related? The core of either of these problems is all of our ignorance f how it actually works. A competitor does not need EFI to have traction control. It is allegedly on vehicles that don't even have EFI. Does anyone even know what to look for? How does it work? Everyone in the sport needs to be a a little more educated on the technology and how to police it before we start burning witches at the stake again.

So we need billet blocks in LSS but not EFI?
Reply Quote

Re: My question - does “electronic fuel injection” help or hurt the sport November 15, 2013 11:18AM
I had a Big Stuff 3 on a few drag cars with traction control, all it will do is cover up a little problem, it will not make a bad guy look good, believe me. Most of the PPL alcohol tractors I see need some help in the fuel department, and this may help put on a better show, as most of them don't run very well, and they go thru a lot of parts as of really bad tune ups. Not a very exciting class right now, but could be.
Reply Quote

Re: My question - does “electronic fuel injection” help or hurt the sport November 16, 2013 02:47AM
When Sandifur put efi on hs tractor it made the PPL class more interesting. Its no fun seeing the same whiny people on top all the time. Its time for change. Efi is the way of the future. If you going to leave a great group like PPL (or at least threaten to leave) just cause one guy tries something new, shame on you. Sore winners and sore losers.it gets lonely at the top. Sandifur works hard on his stuff just like any other. That computer diesnt tell him how much air to keep in his tires, where to put sled, how much boost to use, how much weight to move, where he is in line, weather conditions, how well the driver drives. Shame on the haters who don't have open minds. And the nfms is allowing efi btw. I heard sandifur got in.
Reply Quote

Re: My question - does “electronic fuel injection” help or hurt the sport November 16, 2013 03:01AM
You think no one else works hard on their tractors. It took years for Wilhite to get his tractor to where it is now. I know because I have been helping him for 11 of those years. Lots of time and money and upgrades got him to where he is today. As stated above, E.F.I. is not the issue. It is the traction control that is the issue. Until there is a good reliable way to police it, it shouldn't be allowed. I also think that the cubic inch size should be checked on a regular basis. In all of the year's I have been involved, I have never seen a tractor in the light class checked. When pullers do things that push the rules to limits, they lose a lot of respect from their fellow pullers.
Reply Quote

Re: My question - does “electronic fuel injection” help or hurt the sport November 16, 2013 03:51AM
Wilhite has always been a guy that wud be willing to try new things and take risk to try to make his tractor ans the class better. Never afraid to push the envelope. So my question is why is he so against this? He afraid he cudnt learn how to use it? Its the way of the world now. Like Sandefur said, its already evolved into nascar and quickly becoming seen in drag racing. I too agree that maybe the pullers shud take the time to learn about it. What it will or wont do.
Reply Quote

Re: My question - does “electronic fuel injection” help or hurt the sport November 16, 2013 05:01AM
I don't think that E.F.I. is the issue as I said before. But the ability to easily apply traction control that is not policed or easily detected is the main concern. More research and information would be very helpful.
Reply Quote

Re: My question - does “electronic fuel injection” help or hurt the sport November 16, 2013 05:30AM
Anyone can apply "traction control" to any msd ignition. Shud that be outlawed too?
Reply Quote

Re: My question - does “electronic fuel injection” help or hurt the sport November 16, 2013 05:54AM
I'm not going to get into a passing match with anyone. Everyone has a right to their own opinion. I just don't want the class to become extinct. But the fact of the matter is that I don't have any money invested, just a lot of time. But why would you implement this rule when so many are against it? I guess the sanctioning body will have to decide if they want it or not.
Reply Quote

Ppl has always allowed EFI as well as traction control November 16, 2013 08:11AM
Some of the common misconceptions seem to be that EFI is automatically traction control. This is false. Traction control is an available option at an additional cost. At out Rules discussion in Indianapolis it was decided to allow EFI for another year if and only if the ignition system was removed from the EFI systems control. Since our meeting, PPL tech officials have been to my shop and inspected my tractor and fuel system. While they were here i showed them how the ignition system can easily be separated from the the fuel system. By doing so it makes my ignition EXACTLY the same as my fellow LSS competitors. As i said previously I am against traction control for all the same reasons as everyone else but EFI is not traction control. I do not want to outlaw Msd type ignitions. I do not want to outlaw data recorders. At our 2012 rules meeting I brought up the subject of EFI in both the LSS and USS discussions with little to no opposition. At this time i also contacted PPL and NTPA officials. NTPA has a written rule that plainly states NO EFI. PPL officials on the other hand assured me that there were no rules against EFI. That being said this is not a rule that anyone is trying to push through or shove down anyones throat. EFI has always been allowed in PPL. I am not the first to have EFI in pulling, a gentleman in Nebraska has been running EFI on his Super stock tractor for several years in a PPL organization. I am not asking for a rule change. I am not asking for special favors. I believe that everyone who runs a superstock tractor has worked hard to get to where they are. I will be glad to help answer any questions i can about how EFI works and the benefits i believe it can bring to our class
Reply Quote

Re: My question - does “electronic fuel injection” help or hurt the sport November 16, 2013 06:09AM
No it should not outlaw MSD ignitions, that's why we have Tech Guys who should know what to look for and check it regular! So let me get this right, if a guy pushes the throttle wide open and waits for something to stick, is his style of driving which regularly tears his engine up and then he installs Big Stuff 3 and now when he does that the Tractor has to fight to get power up to leave the line, which solves his inability to drive his rig how is that fair to those in the sport who know what their doing and pride themselves on that fact? LSS is a drivers class its a thrill ride! This eliminates that, and my interest and many others in the class, so when several of us quit how did that make the class better? When you for the most part take the drivers skill out of the class, how is that good? What then is the advantage of being say Esdohn Lehn or Kevin Lynn or Mike Willhite and many other of the very best in the sport, that is earned by many years of pounding the highways putting on your shows out of their back pockets and not being with their families and businesses, they have earned the right to beat someone who isn't a good Puller.

BB
Reply Quote

Re: My question - does “electronic fuel injection” help or hurt the sport November 16, 2013 07:21AM
Bob, your argument can be applied to the EFI. If the tech guys can look at an MSD set up with multiple modules, rev limiters, boost controllers and AM/FM cassette attachments and determine that it is not connected to some sort of traction control device why can't the very same qualified people look at an EFI set up and make the same determination?

Everyone should also realize that there are different types pf EFI also. There are closed loop systems and Live systems, etc; Why not allow a closed loop system? A person is still tuning by putting in different parameters and those parameters are followed in fuel delivery based on input of the physical conditions that are produced bt the engine. The mechanical systems are the same. You put in a fuel pill or set your timing with a wrench before you go down the track and you live with the consequences of that tuning decision The person with EFI makes the same adjustments and deal with the same consequences only they used the laptop to set it up.

It is no different than anyone with a mechanical system that uses the array of MSD products that changes timing in their ignition that takes a reading from manifold boost.

I would be just as if not more concerned with the ability of a person who came from the drag car world and is familiar with how to implement all the ignition timers and tie that in with the boost controllers and then combine all that with a clutch cannon, etc; That guy is using everything that you yourself are using and has the greater potential of having a true traction control system.

I am not trying to support the EFI tractor directly but there are a lot of smoke and mirror one sided arguments against it that aren't adding up when you guys are presenting them.

And I don't think that Sandefur started pulling yesterday and came in and just started whippn you guys. He has taken his lumps and wrecks over the last several years and has logged the miles like everyone else.
Reply Quote

Re: My question - does “electronic fuel injection” help or hurt the sport November 16, 2013 01:36PM
If it's allowed, it's allowed for everyone. Which means the moaners here could put it on, too. But "just in case" it might dominate, let's ban it like the V-8's in the LSS class...
Reply Quote

Re: My question - does “electronic fuel injection” help or hurt the sport November 17, 2013 02:55AM
In conversation about EFI. We don't want to deprive ourselves of the potential advantages of a very tunable fuel system by being afraid of traction control coming with it. Maybe the place for it to be given a try would be in the Unlimited SS class. By the very definition of it's name it's a less regulated class. So policing EFI traction control issues may be a good class to start. It's primarily an alcohol class with limited numbers of competitors to check.
Reply Quote

Re: My question - does “electronic fuel injection” help or hurt the sport November 17, 2013 03:21AM
lot of talk about EFI and Mechanical Fuel Injection, and I am assuming most of the discussion is how it applies to the LSS class. (which I have had, and am in the process of finishing another). Someone with the correct knowledge please lay out the COST comparison of the 2 systems, and in this comparison please assume that the competitor wants the BEST of each type of system. Curious to see the $ comparison of the 2. Thanks.
Reply Quote

Re: My question - does “electronic fuel injection” help or hurt the sport November 17, 2013 03:33AM
Have been told between 8 to 10k for the efi set up.... But hey what's ANOTHERE $10,000?? Seems like the guys that know how to set up a fuel system do just fine without it!
Reply Quote

Re: My question - does “electronic fuel injection” help or hurt the sport November 17, 2013 05:24AM
There really isn't much diffence in price. It all depends on what system you go with.
Reply Quote

Re: My question - does “electronic fuel injection” help or hurt the sport November 18, 2013 01:23AM
You can get an EFI set up for less than $3k. It works awesome, smooth as glass. If there was no PPL rule against it, you have no business outlawing it just because you didn't think of doing it. I know it happens in pulling all the time, but it's a crappy way of doing things.
Reply Quote

efi diesel November 16, 2013 09:47AM
How hard is it to put EFI on a 400 series DIESEL IH?

and cost
Reply Quote

Re: efi diesel November 17, 2013 12:26PM
Put a common rail 5.9 Cummins in a 706 out of a Dodge Truck. Competed in the farm classes, couldn't control the rpms though, ran about 3500 down the track. I see no reason to outlaw electronic injection in the diesels. Common Rails compete just fine with the mechanically injected trucks in the diesel trucks.

video: [www.youtube.com]
Reply Quote

Newer Topic Older Topic

Author:

Your Email:


Subject:
Spam prevention:
Please, enter the code that you see below in the input field. This is for blocking bots that try to post this form automatically. If the code is hard to read, then just try to guess it right. If you enter the wrong code, a new image is created and you get another chance to enter it right.
Message:
Website Statistics
Global: Topics: 38,625, Posts: 229,687, Members: 3,325.
This forum: Topics: 37,067, Posts: 225,899.

Our newest member JD_8520