10:42:25pm, Sunday, April 28, 2024
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Outlaws is toast!
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Pull junkie
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Well nice surprise in my mailbox when I got off work today. Finally the truth comes about Outlaws! $1,566,000. Nuff said |
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Re: Outlaws is toast!
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Outlaw puller
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I really don't that is anybody busy about the money except for the owner
Kurt does a great job and it is a great series to pull with Then you always idiots like self to make comments than have nothing to do with you |
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Re: Outlaws is toast!
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Another oitlaw puller
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They are distributing the newsletter at Rock Valley. Took awhile to get through mine, but all I can say is Doug put up with more than I ever would have. |
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Re: Outlaws is toast!
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Major Crank
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So does anyone know who owns the Outlaws and who owns the debt? Is this the opening for PPL western series to take over. And do the special Outlaws rules come back to hurt them. |
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Re: Outlaws is toast!
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Gone
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After reading Doug's letter wouldn't be surprised if that not on the works awhile back. If not I doubt the are going to pay nothing and just let the wheels fall off the wagon and pick up the pieces. I bet they get 5 to 10 Outlaw pulls next year. |
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Re: Outlaws is toast!
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What does newsletter say ? |
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Re: Outlaws is toast!
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To everyone in the rest if the country, there is only the big two. Outlaws isn't on the same level as PPL and NTPA. |
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Re: Outlaws in Rock Valley this weekend.
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Posts: 744 |
Don't believe everything you read. Doug did a lot of great things. This step is the first in the right direction.
There is a plan and 2nd side if you bother to talk to the correct people and members. The actual facts will not be found on here. Outlaws future success is based on their many loyal members not an owner. COO for OTTPA www.outlawpulling.com www.truck-specialties.com Schaeffer Oil Representative [www.schaefferoil.com] Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 07/08/2017 12:15PM by AV. |
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Re: Outlaws is toast!
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Randy Becker
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Well said A.V. |
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Re: Outlaws is toast!
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Anonymous User
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Here's my question. How does a tractor pulling association get into that much debt?
Someone please explain |
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Re: Outlaws is toast!
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Bystander
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One thing about Doug Roberts is he does it by the book. He will call a spade a spade, you cheat you pay the price, no free passes. When Outlaws does good ever letter he has put on here always ended with the same way, safety & fair competition and credited the pullers and the promoters for making Outlaws what it is today. He is the only one out of the three big associations that will get on here and explain things and back it up with facts and figures. If he got to the point he had to put a newsletter out to set the record straight it must be bad and he had had enough. I am sure he backed it up with facts to prove just like he does on here. Doug will be missed by Outlaws and on this site to. Enjoyed his post and a lot of people learned a lot on here from his post over the years, including me. Thanks |
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Re: Outlaws is toast!
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Kurt vb
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I used to own three pulling tractors then went down to two and then to one when we went to the limited pro class and definitely only wanted one once we became a diesel superstock competitor ,ended up buying one back from a fellow puller who needed to get out from under it so I helped him out the tractor is for sale, |
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Re: Outlaws is toast!
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????
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Question is are Doug's acquisitions true in his 10 page letter? |
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Re: Outlaws is toast!
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True
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Yep, in typical Roberts fashion another 10 pages with the letter of documents backing up the letter. Even a copy of the two checks that bounced for $130 grand. |
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Re: Outlaws is toast!
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Austin
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Still....what does it all mean? No one has come out and said what the heck is going on other than little bits and pieces. Its like dangling a ribeye in front of a rottweiler and never giving him a bite!!!!! |
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Re: Outlaws is toast!
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Anonymous User
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It sounds like a gigantic mess to me. Obviously they didn't have have the right people overseeing the financials for the Outlaw association.
I'm still not sure how you can get in that much debt. That's pretty hard to do, if the number of 1.5 million is true. How can you write checks out, knowing that there's a really good chance of it bouncing. If all of this is true. They have problems. A lot of them to put it mildly. |
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Re: Outlaws
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Posts: 744 |
It means nothing. Doug gave his side of things, some of which is false. Kurt and the board have a plan in place and are moving forward to grow the Outlaws.
If you are truly worried call Kurt or a board member and have a discussion. The rest is just an attempt to create drama where there doesn't need to be any. What impressed me was once the letter was brought out Kurt made copies and distributed it. That showed me he had nothing to hide. We had a great time in Rock Valley this weekend and thanks to those guys for the hospitality. COO for OTTPA www.outlawpulling.com www.truck-specialties.com Schaeffer Oil Representative [www.schaefferoil.com] |
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Re: Outlaws is toast!
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Kurt vb
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I usually do not go on pull off to do business ,everybody that knows me knows that ,but I will defend myself on the $130000 worth of checks that did not bounce , they were returned because Portions of the contract were not completed by Doug, he knew what he had to do to complete the contract, as of today Doug has had all of his money for over a week and has still not completed his portion of the contract completely, if anyone has any questions please call me next week , Bank statements will not lie as to when the money left my account, so just to be clear the checks did not bounce because of insufficient funds they were returned because the contract was not completed and is still not completed today but all the money is in Doug's hands |
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Re: Outlaws
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Posts: 744 |
I was just giving my opinion of first hand conversations in Rock Valley.
We joined outlaws this year because I wanted to support their dss class especially since Vanbeeks joined the class. Also my in-laws pull outlaws and it's enjoyable to take the kids where grandma and grandpa go. You are welcome to believe what you wish. Not sure the reason to attack someone anonymously. I choose to see the positives in things others may look at it differently. Give me a call anytime (seven one two) 8871151 or stop by the trailer if you have any other questions. COO for OTTPA www.outlawpulling.com www.truck-specialties.com Schaeffer Oil Representative [www.schaefferoil.com] |
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Outlaws is toast!
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If the Outlaws are toast as some are suggesting because of a debt and new people, it was not apparent at the shows I have been to in Iowa so far this year. Probably as good of shows as have ever been to since I started watching pulling. Granted the weather was good at all 3 places, but, the shows started on time, good competition, fast paced, and I didn't have to stay till midnight to see a good class. Was headed home at 10:30 - 11 and felt like I got my monies worth. So, a letter, a debt, people in or out, trouble brewing, what ever, was not apparent by the way the shows were ran. Thank You for that. Hopefully if there are issues of what ever kind they get them resolved before it shows or hurts their shows. |
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Re: Outlaws is toast!
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Maybe we all should worry about our selves instead of everyone else. I was always brought up if you can't say something nice don't say anything at all. We all need to start acting our age and be thankful we are one of the few that get to do a sport we love. We need to quit bashing people, because just like you they also have feelings. We need to work together to make Pulling the best that it can be.
Loren Paulsen........not afraid to sign my name |
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Re: Outlaws is toast!
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Registered: 01/31/2012 Posts: 99 |
Good post Loren. Look at all the positive Outlawa are doing. If you don't like going someplace that has hundreds or thousands of spectators, a nice track, lots of safety people, a big screen, get paid well if you do well. I have a big wheel loader you could come and hook to and pull on a dirt road if you want. I'll only charge you $20. |
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Re: Outlaws will be just fine!
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Registered: 09/16/2014 Posts: 153 |
Well, you would think Kurt would learn his lesson and stay off here. The reason I put the letter out there to Outlaw members only in hard copy was it was meant for Outlaw members only and not on here. I have the only electronic copy and wanted to keep it that way. The reason for the letter was his lack of professionalism, confidentiality, truthfulness and the personal information that should have been between two owners only, yet he had been leaking it out for 18 months. I was fine when we did the deal and he picked up everything and received my checks. I received 3 checks and the first one made out to my in laws for the big screen was right, but the other two were made out wrong, and had to wait for new ones to replace them, yet I went ahead and let him take everything home. The in laws cashed theirs and it went through. When I get my new checks, he said his banker was on vacation and could I wait till Monday to cash. I waited till Tuesday to deposit both checks. Then we left for vacation and on Thursday before Ravenna he calls and tells me he didn’t have enough money to cover both checks and one was coming back. When I get back from my 10 day vacation both of the $65,000 checks had bounced. Then his narrative changed to well the bank wouldn’t loan me the money because one title wasn’t signed. So if the bank wouldn’t lend him the $130,000 over a title for a $23,000 truck I was starting to get worried. The 15 passenger van was in the deal also and was the only vehicle that had a lien on it as $17,000 is still owed on it. Everything else from 2 trucks, 3 trailers all had clear titles. The license bureau would not let me transfer the title on the van to him till he paid it off and the lien was released. Kurt said there wasn’t any equity in it and he didn’t have the money to pay it off now and it was holding up the deal, so as a favor to him I told him I would just keep it. Then since Outlaws had been receiving the statements for the last 18 months when I get the first statement a payment hadn’t been made since April 28th and two payments were due plus late fees. Then the Masters Entertainment Group that did our TV shows calls and needed my help since I had done business with them for 10 years. Even though they hadn’t talked to me in over a year and a half they had not been paid $66,000 for the contract Kurt had signed last year. Then I started getting calls from Outlaw members about Kurt wanting members to buy shares for $1000 in Outlaws and every share they bought they would get one vote on rules etc. Well that was it for me, here I have friends calling me on advice to invest in Outlaws and am sitting here knowing all his misdeeds that no one else knows because I believed in confidentiality. So if they invested and it didn’t work out well like it did with me and it came out later that I knew all this stuff and didn’t tell them, what kind of friend would I be. I am sure he didn’t mention the two bad checks from the day before and TV money owed when he gave that speech at Ravenna. So on Monday, July 3rd I write the letter as the membership needed to know what was going on. At that time neither check had cleared the bank. To maybe help my chances I deposited one on Thursday and the other on Friday, June 30th instead of both the same day. When you deposit checks that had already been returned once for non-sufficient funds that throws up red flags and they automatically put a 5 day hold on them. On Thursday before Rock Valley when I took the letters to Dave Yarick neither check had cleared and been released to my account. Maybe because 4th of July was a holiday, not for sure. I called the bank on Thursday and they said there is no way to know if they would clear or not and the hold was still on. Well on Friday afternoon after letter is out Kurt sends me 4 texts in about 5 minutes that the checks had cleared the week before and more than likely some of the board members believed it. He was telling the board the checks clearing his bank before I even had deposited the last one in my bank. On the close of business on Friday the 1st check was released and glad to say the 2nd check cleared yesterday. So a month later I finally got my money. Thanks Kurt for finally making them good. As far as Adam Vaske, not sure why he is getting in the middle of this as I think I have talked to him only one time in my life and that was last year on turbo limits for the Diesel Super Stock class. If Adam and Kurt want to settle all this Outlaw stuff on Pull-off, so be it.
When it comes to Outlaws the association will be just fine. The Outlaw brand is so good after these last 20 years and with all the dedicated competitors, workers, announcers, etc. they will continue to put on great shows for our promoters and be the number one association in the Midwest. You see this in the shows Outlaws is putting on this year. The Outlaw members will make this happen no matter who owns it. I was hoping the letter was a wakeup call to Kurt to be more professional and truthful but after reading his post on here it hasn’t took yet, but maybe he will get there someday. Kurt has dug himself a big hole with all this debt he ran up, but I think he can dig out of it. He is has made a lot of mistakes and is still learning and after 22 years I still make mistakes and I am still learning. Kurt has my full support and so does the Outlaw board. I will give them advice if they want it and what they do with that is there business. I will not work against Outlaws and signed a non-compete and had no problem with that because if I wanted to continue to work in pulling it would be with Outlaws. I just finished Schlueter’s new tractor and they took it home before I went on vacation this year and it may still make it out this year. I am building myself a new tractor and it will be next year before it makes it out and my first choice to pull at will be Outlaw events. I took on another tractor to build for a guy this fall, so I am busy yet can work my hours around my family. I just mailed a check to Susan for an ad in the book yesterday that came in last week and also forward both Kurt & Susan an email from someone wanting to rent the big screen in September. So Outlaws will be just fine and the members and board needs to support Kurt just like they have me these past 20 years and Kurt needs to listen to the board when it comes to rules, etc. Outlaws will lose some pulls and also gain some pulls next year, that is just the way it is in this business. I just received an email last week from a venue wanting an Outlaw event in 2018, plus I think 2 venues that I almost signed last year will sign in 2018. So business will carry on as usual. Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/11/2017 02:55AM by Doug Roberts. |
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Re: Outlaws will be just fine!
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Posts: 744 |
Doug best of luck to you and thanks for all you have done in the sport of pulling.
If you reread the posts I was merely sticking up for Outlaws the organization (which you built). I even gave you a compliment. Once the letter came out and announced on pulloff, all members were involved. I am an Outlaw member paid in full. Any other posts were to respond to personal attacks to me. I never brought any details on here. I have nothing against you at all and wish you the best of luck with whatever you decide to do in the future. As for me, I committed to Outlaw points before this all went down and will honor my pre-commitment. I hope you both can find peace in this whole deal as you have put several decades of time into it and it would be tough for anyone to make this type of change. This is my last post on this subject, see you all in Britt, Dubuque, and Sac City. COO for OTTPA www.outlawpulling.com www.truck-specialties.com Schaeffer Oil Representative [www.schaefferoil.com] |
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Re: Outlaws will be just fine!
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Kurt vb
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Hey wow and really because I believe you're the same person instead of getting on here and bashing someone you don't know ,come up and introduce yourself some time I think you'll find out I'm a hard-working trustworthy good guy who just did something that I thought would help save the outlaws Doug and I had a good partnership for two years he even told me more than once how much he appreciated me as a partner Doug decided to go his own way for family reasons which I respect him for I would love to get to meet you either give me a call or come up and introduce yourself and you'll find out I'm not the dumbass you keep calling me I'm actually a pretty good guy |
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Re: Outlaws will be just fine!
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Anonymous User
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Sounds to me like Kurt got caught in a few lies.
I'm not sure that's who you want leading an organization. Just saying |
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Re: Outlaws will be just fine!
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300' Puller
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I will say that all these post generate a lot of interest in the pulling world and in the Outlaws as an association. This will drive fans to the track. People love and thrive on this stuff. It sucks that everyone had to learn about the personal conversations and issues within an association this way. Airing all the laundry out over the internet though is nothing new these days. It's more of a normal. It's called Facebook. That company has built quite the empire off people wanting to post stuff about themselves, opinions, and disrespectful stuff towards others. It's the new normal. People love controversy and pay good money to see a good show. NASCAR had a lot more success when they had all kinds of it back in the 70's, 80's and even 90's. Slowly they have sweep it under the rug over the years or buried it before it was ever news, now look at how exciting it is to watch that sport. Golf generated a ton of money during the Tiger Woods controversy and now golf has been quiet for years missing controversy and look how much interest it's loosing. People need a good issue to debate. It just drives us as humans to voice our opinions.We all thrive on it. Boards like this give us that opportunity. Outlaws in the pulling world rarely disappoint on this board. Sometimes it may seem like things are coming unraveled and the heat is turned up awful high on them. Somehow they survive. I agree with Kurt this isn't the place to take the trash out, but at the same time it's generating a much larger interest from all over. I have watched Outlaw crowds grow and grow over the years and to some degree I think its because of stuff like this. People read and read all week and then decide they want to go see it first hand. Doug I think has known this for a while. People love being in front except in church. While I know this crap is ugly at times and wrong, it's the modern day way to tell it your way with out facing anyone face to face. Your audience is large and you know people will read it. Then commit on it, read it and recommit. I think its great marketing for the sport to a point. Jake has explained that point many times. I hope they don't go away because it's what keeps me interested in the sport. If all we had to talk about is the who the winners are night in and night out, I don't think this board would survive long. It appears Outlaws has a huge hole to dig out of and that is very serious. The core group I know will survive and make the right decisions to keep it going. Hopefully, they will continue to post, because lol it's just too much fun for all of us. I can't imagine what pulloff would be like with out their post. |
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Re: Outlaws is toast!
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Registered: 03/28/2010 Posts: 44 |
I agree, How does spreading of any rumors help the sport of tractor pulling.
Brad Lundell Kiron, Iowa |
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Re: Outlaws is toast!
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did you forget
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It was not that long ago when NTPA was in financial trouble and WPI had to save it. |
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Re: Outlaws is toast!
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That's been almost 30 years ago. |
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Re: Outlaws is toast!
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You tell it !
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Jake , if you deleted mine, I suggest you keep reading and deleting, I simply suggested we also move on ... |
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OTTPA Financial Situation
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Registered: 03/25/2008 Posts: 2,526 |
First, I am deleting some of the garbage on this thread. I'm also deleting posts from the thread that don't actually add anything to the conversation... (like your first post and the one right above this one that you posted)
Second, if you want people to stop talking about it and to stop posting on it... Then take your own advice and STOP POSTING ON IT. Every time YOU post on the topic it brings it back to the top of the page. To me that seems a little... Let's just say... counterproductive. Third, if YOU are sick of talking about it and reading about it then don't read this thread. Simply resist the urge to click on the thread with your mouse.. I know it's hard but pull that mouse hand back and don't click. Problem solved! Fourth, don't tell people to "move on". You're not the arbiter of what people should and shouldn't be interested in. This topic (like all topics) will run it's natural course and people will stop talking about it when THEY are ready. ******************************************************************************************* Yes the Outlaws are in a difficult spot right now. Unfortunately whether we like it or not this is huge news in our sport and it's a story that continues to develop. We can't bury our heads in the sand and we can't simple pretend like everything's alright. This is a topic that is not simply deserving of some minor discussion, but rather it demands discussion. This wasn't just two guys selling a boat to each other on Craigslist or Ebay, this regards the transaction and the management of one of the larger entities in our sport, and the largest pulling entity West of the Mississippi. This is a developing story that either has the potential to change the dynamics of pulling in the Midwest or it may simply be an expensive lesson in organizational management. Time will tell. I know pullers, promoters, and fans all have tons of questions and concerns and it's natural to want immediate answers. I'm hoping that a plan to rectify this situation will be continually developed and refined and I also hope that with time some of those difficult questions get answered. Organizations have a tendency to want to stop talking about the problems and wish them away. Really smart organizations either hire a PR firm or have some PR savvy and they get out infront of the story. They share facts and information. They become as transparent as possible, using all information platforms and social media. Nothing puts out the fires of rumor and speculation quicker than honesty and facts. It's never the approach anyone wants to take but it's always the approach that works. I hope that when the dust settles the facts make the Outlaws and pulling in general much stronger. Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/11/2017 03:30PM by Jake Morgan. |
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Re: OTTPA Financial Situation
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Thank you , but...
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Well I apologize for my suggestions, but again with all do respect keep reading, yes it is an important topic and there is some good info here but there is also some negitive lingering garbage, but hey it's your page! Just seems when people talk badly about this organization "productive or not" almost anything goes it's not often someone calls another a dumbass on here and gets away with it . |
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Re: OTTPA Financial Situation
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Registered: 03/25/2008 Posts: 2,526 |
Show me the posts that seem inappropriate to you and I'll look at them. Contrary to popular belief I'm not on the internet 24 hours a day, 7 days a week and because of that sometimes posts stay up longer than I'd like. Myself along with all the page moderators will have differing opinions on what's appropriate. Calling someone an A-hole is pretty easy to moderate and agree upon. Difficult discussions about an organization are a much more tricky topic to come to agreement on. Again, show me the posts and I'll look at them. The Outlaws get treated no different on here than the NTPA, PPL, the East Coast Series, or any other organization. They all get equal treatment. I've been accused of being Pro-NTPA and anti PPL and I've been accused of being Pro-PPL and Anti-NTPA. I've been told that the page has too much Outlaw content on it and that I favor the Outlaws too much I've been told that I'm too mean to the Outlaws. The truth is I don't care one bit who's name is on the banner at a pull. It means absolutely nothing to me. I care about the sport as a whole and to me that's way more important than any single organization. When organizations do the right thing I'll happily praise them, and conversely when things go wrong I'll treat them justly. No favoritism, and no dislike of any club. I will say this about the Outlaws, they've used social media much, much, much better than ANY other organization. Kurt and Doug have both been good about sharing information or ideas. I applaud them both for that and I appreciate what they've done to keep pulling vibrant in the midwest. |
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Re: OTTPA Financial Situation
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You tell it
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Well since my last post it appears you you have done some more house cleaning thanks! |
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Re: OTTPA Financial Situation
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Full Pull Steve
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I agree with Jake on nothing puts out fires, rumors and speculations than facts and I think that is why everyone looks at Doug's post because you can pretty much take it to the bank. No pun intended! I have always enjoyed his posts because no matter the topic you feel like you learned something. Rules, events, schedules, hitches, rule infractions, controversy, he tells it like it is and always goes into great details to explain it. No telling how many people know more on the light super class after all those papers that he put on here than they did before. I for one did. Measuring, weight, front end weight and on and on with diagrams and examples. Then to put another measuring chart on here without the Outlaw logo on it so other associations can use it. He will be missed by Outlaws, the pulling world and on this page. Then you get a couple of guys on here calling Doug out on his checks and letter, telling checks didn't bounce and then here is Roberts with the facts. Makes you wonder what future Outlaw has with there new leader. |
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Re: OTTPA Financial Situation
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Outlaw fan
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First off I might not always agree with the decisions Doug made for the outlaws but from the information he posted on here you could tell he always did his homework and everything was what he thought was best for the outlaws and tractor pulling in general which I can respect.
However he said the letter was only for outlaws pullers which seems like a double standard when he posts a copy of the checks but not the letter. I'm pretty sure Kurt only intended those checks to be seen by Doug and a few random bank employees. |
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Re: OTTPA Financial Situation
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Registered: 03/17/2009 Posts: 461 |
Yes but once the member only info was released by Kurt, why hide the rest that Doug has. Hes just trying to straighten out the mess made by opinions on pulloff. |
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Re: OTTPA Financial Situation
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The Truth will set you free
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The way I see it when Kurt came on here and said let's be clear the checks did not get returned for non sufficient funds he brought that on himself and then AV comes on here and said the letter was false it is a wonder the whole letter didn't get posted on here. I have seen the letter and the checks are just the tip of the ice berg. Unbelievable what all happened and lots of facts and documentation to back it up. Doug showed more restraint than I would have on posting letter. |
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Re: OTTPA Financial Situation
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Da!
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Pretty sure Kurt didn't want those checks to be seen or know by anyone, especially after he put foot in mouth. |
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Re: OTTPA Financial Situation
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Anonymous User
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The more I read on here, I'm starting to think that the Outlaws are going to be in trouble, without Doug around. |
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Re: OTTPA Financial Situation
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Gee Ron
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Your last three posts have pointed that out. Are you looking for acknowledgement of your opinion or just repetitive in nature? |
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Re: OTTPA Financial Situation
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So instead of trying to all get together and figure out what to do about your series being 1.5 million in the hole, you all feel that it's better option to sit on a forum and point fingers and bitch? Good luck with that. |
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Re: OTTPA Financial Situation
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Registered: 04/06/2008 Posts: 974 |
Whoa now there are the facts jake was talking about! |
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Re: OTTPA Financial Situation
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Chris C
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Hey folks! I'm just a brush puller from Ohio and have never been to a outlaw pull! But I have seen some competitors pull at other events. Just my suggestion don't throw me under the bus! Why can't the entire outlaw organization just have a big meeting at the end of the year? Pullers and the committee? Just to end the argument! I know that pulloff is a awsome site for pullers.(thanks Morgan's) but the outlaws need to really have a meeting within themselves to get things straightened out.
So let me have it! Remember I'm just a brush puller |
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Re: OTTPA Financial Situation
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Anonymous User
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To Gee Ron
I was just hoping that some Outlaw Pullers or Board Members would read it and consider thinking about a new President. Because being $1.5 million in debt, only happens when someone or some people have the IQ of a 2 year old, or they're stealing money. |
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Re: OTTPA Financial Situation
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Gee Ron
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I would have thought the letters and talks amongst pullers and board members at rock valley and the time following would be an ample and more reliable source of information to base a decision from than the message board at pulloff.com? |
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Re: OTTPA Financial Situation
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Registered: 03/31/2008 Posts: 762 |
I don't have a dog in his fight and didn't see the letter or know any more detiails than have been posted on here, but we have to remember 2 things. Outlaws is not a local club that simply collects dues, pays purses, and pays for insurance. It's a big business with TV contracts, corporate sponsors, and TV production costs, plus they own assets. This debt may be a snapshot of where they are in the yearly cycle. Just like there are plenty of farmers that have a large debt right now because they borrowed to cover their input costs. That does not truly reflect their financial situation any more than a big bank statement in November after selling all their crops. |
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Re: OTTPA Financial Situation
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Face in crowd
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Reference to dog fighting aside, you make a very good point regarding finances. |
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Re: OTTPA Financial Situation
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Way down
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Outlaws sure seem to be down on numbers this year in a lot of classes.k |
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Re: OTTPA Financial Situation
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For sure
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Notice the same thing. A lot of the guys that used to run for points regularly not out this year or hooking very few times. Looks like some good crowds still, but most think that is based on the pull from the year before. Be interesting to see how this plays out for attendance next year. |
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Re: OTTPA Financial Situation
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Pro Stock.
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Tractor pulling is in trouble. We have a big pro. It's set in our shop
Since winter. All these associations want there rules to be just different so you can't run with anyone else. Then they want to make changes all the time Costing thousands. It's cost us at least a 100,000 a year to run. Not everyone has an unlimited budget. These associations need to understand that are there will be just a handful of tractors and each event no matter the Association. We pull for fun. Fun just doesn't seem to be there right know |
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Re: OTTPA Financial Situation
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Outlaw rules
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Outlaws had the foresight to see this problem and made rules to keep these tractors on the track. The pro stock class is doing good this year compared to the other classes that are down on vehicles. Not sure what is going on there. |
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Re: OTTPA Financial Situation
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something wrong
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Not sure what is going on with outlaws but pulls are way short on trucks and tractors. Must be all the controversy or heard no points fund this year might be the problem. I just got off the website and about 50 trucks and tractors from last year not hooking this year. a lot of these are past points winners or in the top 5 and regulars. 2wd trucks -taz, 4wd trucks, runnin wild, nuttin honey, diesel 4wd trucks had 14 last year and only 4 this year running for points, 466 class - just another buck, rackem, all in , blowin bucks, little mod class the whole class of 10 is gone, diesel supers - intimidator and lost, super farm -4 haven't hooked yet. unlimited supers - whitworth tractors and green lighting, pro stock -hillbilly express, wampuscat, southern belle, mod - lotta dirt, keeps on ticking, light supers - barn buddy, demon b gone, last call, easy, wicked attraction, hustler, limited pro stocks - red iron, grand river deere, stand clear, knotty boys, high stakes horsepower. l see they do have about 7 new trucks and tractors. outlaws is the one associations that has always had lots of vehicles every year. Maybe hard times have caught up with them. |
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Re: OTTPA Financial Situation
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Truck puller
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I'm guessing diesel trucks are down because a last minute change was made and forced everyone to buy a new turbos which wasnt suppose to happen till next year. Then you will have to go buy another new spec outlaw turbo next year that won't be competitive anywhere. If ottpa wants to change rules every year that cost pullers a bunch of money they will just go pull somewhere else. |
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Re: OTTPA Financial Situation
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Moderator Registered: 03/25/2008 Posts: 1,446 |
Please do not waste your time trashing Kurt or anyone else that is now running Outlaws or the same about Doug or anything about his leadership. All such posts will be deleted. And STOP saying how the Outlaws are in a death spiral, if you have not noticed numbers are down in all national level pulling in certain classes. |
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Re: OTTPA Financial Situation
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What I know
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The 466 tractors listed are all pulling with Western Series. The outlaws alway have been the last option for diesel pickup guys. The light mod class got pissed when they were pulled from the big pulls (rv and wisner) so they aren't supporting the outlaws. |
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Re: OTTPA Financial Situation
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Instead of bitching about the outlaws why not raise some money bail them out or have some kind of benfit.It amazing all u people who bitching about sure have been bailed out time or too.what I don't understand is all those pullers not with outlaws bailed.why hell it was one greatest shows around is a thought instead of you babies bailing I'm sure all those pullers got paid when things were good put on your firesuit s help them out .go outlaws |
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Re: OTTPA Financial Situation
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Face in crowd
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Instead of calling the pullers "babies", why don't you follow your own advice Bert and do a fund raiser to help out instead of posting negative comments. Maybe collect aluminum cans or something and contribute your earnings to the purse? |
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Re: OTTPA Financial Situation
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Answer
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They dug the hole they can find a way out. |
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Re: OTTPA Financial Situation
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More than that
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You left off about a dozen more that are not hoooking with Outlaws this year. What about Farmers Foreplay, always in the points race. After looking at program for Gage Porter rookie of the year they have had 30 then 42 and then 52 last year. Be luck to have 10 this year. |
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Re: OTTPA Financial Situation
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Where are Parkers Pros |
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Re: OTTPA Financial Situation
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I think Outlaws could garner more online following if the posted results timely. Most don't want to pay for their app. By time results post on website nobody cares. |
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Re: OTTPA Financial Situation
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Registered: 03/30/2008 Posts: 97 |
Yeah, that $6.00 lifetime fee almost killed me! |
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Re: OTTPA Financial Situation
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See, I knew somebody would agree. $6 here, $6 there soon you have $12 |
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Re: OTTPA Financial Situation
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Just my 2 cents, but what turns me off about the outlaws is all the whining and crying done right here.
Settle your differences face to face in a meeting. Airing all this out here makes Ottpa look like aa bunch of crybabies. Seems like there is always some huge controversy getting aired out on this site. Very unprofessional in my opinion |
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Re: OTTPA Financial Situation
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Agreed
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Agreed |
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Re: OTTPA Financial Situation
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Registered: 03/30/2008 Posts: 97 |
By your post, it sounds as if you're assuming most of the people on here whining are Outlaw members. I'm assuming they're outsiders who just like to stir the pot. Just my .02. |
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Re: OTTPA Financial Situation
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No sir that is not what I mean. Probably a poor choice of words on my part. I just think ottpa could take care of this stuff in a more professional manner. |
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Re: OTTPA Financial Situation
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Registered: 03/30/2008 Posts: 97 |
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Re: OTTPA Financial Situation
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My nickel's worth
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Tonight outlaws hit a all time low, 4 classes with a total of 20 hooks. Where is everyone at? |
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Re: OTTPA Financial Situation
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Registered: 12/30/2008 Posts: 275 |
If you look at last years (or any years) West Liberty results, you will see that show has always been low in turn out. 21 hooks last night, 25 hooks in 2016, 29 hooks in 2015. [www.ulmerracing.com] |
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Re: OTTPA Financial Situation
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About the same
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Small event, middle of the week. Looks to be about 20 percent less than last year and that 20 to 25 percent is what about ever event outlaws has been off this year. |
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Re: OTTPA Financial Situation
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Pllnfn
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I think too much is being made of the lower numbers with Outlaws. It may be down a bit but things fluctuate. A couple of the guys mentioned appear to be not chasing points and wanting to pull a little bit more with other organizations. A couple others mentioned may just be getting out late. There are a few pullers who seem to always get out later in the year or just simply choose not to make a lot of hooks each summer. |
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Re: OTTPA Financial Situation
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day later
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Yeah, I know some pullers that didn't attend because it was HOT and a weeknite doesn't help also.
The ntpa event just north of there rained out, glad the event got in. |
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Re: OTTPA Financial Situation
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Anonymous User
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The outlaws have lost alot of pulls the last 5 to 10 years Onawa, hinton , carroll , boone , adel , fort dodge , and probably west liberty and probably the iowa state fair for a while hopefully they do put together a new track that being said they haven't been gaining a lot of new pulls a few but not many. so what does the future hold for the outlaws? rock valley and wisner are the anchors right now hope they can hold onto them and get some new pulls to commit for the future. |
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Re: OTTPA Financial Situation
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Well......
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Yes outlaws have lost some hooks over the years just like every association nothing new. Look at all the great events they picked up like Troy, South Dakota State Fair , Spencer, Macon, Dubuque, Missouri state fair most of which were either NTPA or PPL previously. If you would have been at the meetings in October you would know all Pullers voted for less hooks and that's excactly what they did. Dropped some events to make a more comfortable and travel easy schedule. Outlaws turn down events every year that don't fit their schedule. Ask the pullers if they want to hook 30 times a year and I bet 99% say no way. Every association is down on numbers but so far all the pullers and promoters seem to be happy so I don't know why the reason for concern. |
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Re: OTTPA Financial Situation
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Anonymous User
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From the looks of it a lot of them don't want to hook 10 times this year. |
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Re: OTTPA Financial Situation
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Do promoters really expect people to pay for a tractor pull with only 20 or 30 hooks? Did the pull in question even last an hour? |
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Re: OTTPA Financial Situation
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Face in crowd
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One problem is that the Outlaws typically start a pull on time, run a floating finish and keep the show moving efficiently.
The solution would be to subcontract NTPA officials to work the West Liberty hook. They could reset the sled after four hooks and still put half a class in a pulloff. They could stretch the thing past midnight if you wanted them to. |
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Re: OTTPA Financial Situation
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redlp540
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Face in crowd couldn't agree more most regional ntpa shows I go to around here have about 30 vehicles total but yet somehow last like 5 hours dumb keep the show moving no need to run half class then reset sled then have 80% of the class comeback again for a pulloff dumb |
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Re: OTTPA Financial Situation
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It's also dumb to expect people to pay for a pull with 20 hooks. Maybe this is one of the reasons your series is broke? |
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Re: OTTPA Financial Situation
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You might think it's dumb. In which scenario do you see more concessions sold ? Two hour show or five hour show ? |
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Re: OTTPA Financial Situation
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Anonymous User
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Exactly Greg. It's about money. Something the Outlaws don't have. |
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Re: OTTPA Financial Situation
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Short again
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Looks like another short night for Outlaws. Warrensburg dropped a class from last year but to go from 132 rigs to 86 last night is sad. |
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Re: OTTPA Financial Situation
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Registered: 03/02/2010 Posts: 69 |
I'm pretty sure it was 89 hooks, which is almost 10 per class. With the weather how it was, I'm not sure what more you can ask for. But it's alot easier to be negative than it is to enjoy the the good show I guess. Tonight's show should be good too, hope to see everyone out there!
Keith |
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Re: OTTPA Financial Situation
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Outlaw puller
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Didn't see a problem, all classes except diesel pickups had good numbers, Pro Stocks had 14 tractors |
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Re: OTTPA Financial Situation
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Registered: 04/06/2008 Posts: 974 |
Wasn't there and don't care but 14 pro stocks apparently in at an outlaw pull and someone still has the nerve to complain. with the weather going on across this country be thankful there is even a pull that isn't cancelled Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/22/2017 04:10AM by Dick Morgan. |
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Re: OTTPA Financial Situation
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Cast cutter
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Well looking @ the light super stock results from warrensberg ,what is the next plan to equal up the class , pullers who actually work on the tractors & use the performance upgrades of the 21st century must run there tires on backwards ? See how the most ridiculous rule in tractor pulling really helped the John Deere's ,Not ! |
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Re: OTTPA Financial Situation
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lol
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I think all the weight has done for the John Deere boys is hurt their fuel mileage on the way to the pulls! They did get one in the w column because of a disqualification , but a small ih was second ahead of a John deere! When will they ever figure it out |
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Re: OTTPA Financial Situation
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Think
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West Liberty is the middle of the week on a wednesday. Combine that with the fact that it is way over in east iowa and it makes a long haul for a lot of pullers in the middle of the week. It doesnt make a ton of sense to take off work to drive there for a one hook pull on a crap track on a wednesday night. |
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Re: OTTPA Financial Situation
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Maybe so
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Maybe so, but it has been that way since Outlaws started going there. Like Allen said 1/3 less vehicles since two years ago. |
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Re: OTTPA Financial Situation
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Ihfan
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The other associations in Missouri are the same. No crowd in the stands either. Was at Mont city and stands where 1/4 full. Sad for pulling. |
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Re: OTTPA Financial Situation
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I see Mont City had 1 or 2 or 3 vehicles in some classes. That may hold future attendance down. I probably would not go back next year if that was what I witnessed this year. PPL flooding Midwest with pulls that have to attract OTTPA and NTPA pullers to be successful is not working. If orgs keep screwing consumer with these pulls on top of each other requiring same pullers and reduced entertainment value for fans then what might we expect to happen ?? |
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Re: OTTPA Financial Situation
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Ummmmm
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Not sure what pull you were at but numbers were strong in every class at Montgomery City. Before you start bashing you should at least get your facts straight. I see on the results that there were only 2 3.0 pickups at Warrensburg.. |
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Re: OTTPA Financial Situation
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My bad ! Platte City |
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Re: OTTPA Financial Situation
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Registered: 05/24/2013 Posts: 380 |
2 classes had a single entrant, prostock and Modified which in the western series doesn't have a large following. The other classes which were completed had good #'s and fans who attended the show would have been treated to more than their money's worth of entertainment had Mother Nature had cooperated weather wise. I sincerely doubt you will see an attendance decline at this event anyway. Btw from where I was standing on the track the crowd really enjoyed the passes made by each of the single entrant classes |
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Re: OTTPA Financial Situation
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Canceled events
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Looking at early schedule 4 events have cancelled. Dunlap, Jackson, Richland, and now heard Leonardsville is not happening. Going to be just 34 events for outlaws. How the mighty has fallen. Bet they do not have 30 next year. |
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Re: OTTPA Financial Situation
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3 blind mice
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Apparently you've missed the part of the discussion where we have talked about the Outlaws removing some of the smaller hooks to drop the number of hooks for some competitors as that have had more than enough throughout past summers and haven't kept equipment together. |
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Re: OTTPA Financial Situation
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Events
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So outlaws did not want to go to Dunlap and Richland. |
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Re: OTTPA Financial Situation
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Mice
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Well I can't speak for Richland , as far as Dunlap goes they couldn't bring all the classes that John wanted to come to town as they were scheduled in different areas, having not come to an agreement on classes and the increasing costs of all pulls led them to lean towards Neb bush as it seemed a better fit this year, I can't speak for John, but I wouldn't count outlaws out in the coming years. |
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Re: OTTPA Financial Situation
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OK pulling fan
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Outlaws use to put on a pull here in Miami, OK and Diamond, MO, but not for a few years. That was some good pulling action and hate to see them falling apart now. Wish someone would put on a pull in this area again. Heard Lucas Oil is in Coffeyville, KS now so pretty close to us. |
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Re: OTTPA Financial Situation
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Good point OK fan not every area is lucky enough to have big pulls from the different groups in their areas , people need to quit bashing the different groups and just get out and enjoy the sport of pulling that is in your area so the promoters can keep putting the pulls on for us pulling fans. |
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Re: OTTPA Financial Situation
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lucky
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Sorry but it looks like Coffeyville is off the schedule, I was planning to go too |
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Re: OTTPA Financial Situation
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grain valley express
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I have lived here just east of KC for 25 years and we are lucky to have good pulling around here from different groups. I think Outlaws has put on the best pulls in this part of the state, but we sure could tell the vehicles were way down at Warrensburg this year. We have been following the outlaws for 20 years and they have come from nothing to the biggest force in pulling out here. Talking to pullers in the pits at Warrensburg and a lot of them are concerned about the change in leadership and I hope this isn't a sign of things to come. No doubt they lost one of the greatest minds in pulling with Doug Roberts and look what he accomplished without Lucas Oil money or NTPA tradition. NTPA is all but gone out here now. We plan on going to Sweet Springs Saturday and hope the vehicles are not way off like Warrensburg. Sweet Springs had their best pull ever last year and glad they added the big video board. The Missouri State Fair pull that the outlaws put on last year probably was the best pull ever at the fair. Hope we do not see a decline in vehicles at that pull. This is just my opinion on pulling around here and just thankful we have some good pulling to enjoy. |
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Re: OTTPA Financial Situation
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grain valley express
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Re: OTTPA Financial Situation
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Show me the mon$y
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Doug is great, the Outlaws are great, the BIG screen is the greatest .Bla bla bla. But where is the $1.5 million. The post is about the MONEY. Does anyone know? Or are we pretending it will just show up next year. Is anybody going to tell the Big Story???? |
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Re: OTTPA Financial Situation
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Cool
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w
h a t i s G o i n g o n |
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Re: OTTPA Financial Situation
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any reason for the thread not being able to be read I can read every other thread but not this one I have tried everything |
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Re: OTTPA Financial Situation
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Horsy
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T
H E D E A D H O R S E I S Beaten And Dead |
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