08:37:38pm, Thursday, April 25, 2024
|
What tractor came from the factory wth most HP per weight ratio
|
Registered: 10/30/2018 Posts: 749 |
My guess would be the WD 45 AC What your thoughts |
|
Re: What tractor came from the factory wth most HP per weight ratio
|
Registered: 12/13/2008 Posts: 91 |
I would guess 7610 Ford. But only a guess |
|
Re: What tractor came from the factory wth most HP per weight ratio
|
Moderator Registered: 01/11/2009 Posts: 1,577 |
Its probably an orchard tractor of some sort. Narrow and compact, their base, unballasted weight would put some of them at the top of the heap. Bryan Lively - 
    |
|
Re: What tractor came from the factory wth most HP per weight ratio
|
Registered: 09/24/2008 Posts: 176 |
Agree with wd45 maybe the AC 190XT turbo version ??? |
|
Re: What tractor came from the factory wth most HP per weight ratio
|
Registered: 03/19/2018 Posts: 662 |
Haven't run numbers, but anecdotally, I had a Ferguson TO30 that was too light and undertired for the power it made. Even with chains, snowplowing was a joke at more than 1/3 throttle.
EDIT: TO Fergusons and 500/600 Fords will be very high. Ford NAA was the highest taking 31hp belt tested vs lightest ship weight. 82lb/hp. Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/23/2018 01:17PM by cpr. |
|
Re: What tractor came from the factory wth most HP per weight ratio
|
Moderator Registered: 01/11/2009 Posts: 1,577 |
The 7810 or 8010 would be the better tractor to use for analysis vs. an 8210 if youre talking FNH. There was a Fiat-sourced Ford I was around for a few years on a tree farm that was 100hp or so, quite a small tractor and had to be weighted up considerably for some of the tillage it did, but, like CPR, my information is anectdotal. Bryan Lively -
|
|
Re: What tractor came from the factory wth most HP per weight ratio
|
Registered: 12/13/2008 Posts: 91 |
7610 was 5935 lbs and 97hp. Comes out to 61lbs per hp. That's according to tractor data |
|
Re: What tractor came from the factory wth most HP per weight ratio
|
researcher
|
I looked up drawbar tested HP for WD-45 and JD 4020 row crop, each being 100# of tractor shipping wieght = 1.0 horsepower. I could not find Ford 8210D tested drawbar horsepower but tractor is listed as 300# heavier than a 4020.
4020 horsepower be it gas, L-P, diesel all very equivalent power despite 2 versions over time of gas / L-P and 3 versions of diesel engines from '64 to '72. |
|
Re: What tractor came from the factory wth most HP per weight ratio
|
Registered: 04/04/2008 Posts: 630 |
According to tractor database, WD 45 90 pounds per hp, JD 4020 86 pounds per hp and Deutz 12006 77 pounds per hp,TO 20 110 Pounds per hp.
S'no Farmer |
|
Re: What tractor came from the factory wth most HP per weight ratio
|
Registered: 10/30/2018 Posts: 749 |
A 185 ALLIS IS 75 HP AT 6700 POUNDS |
|
Re: What tractor came from the factory wth most HP per weight ratio
|
Registered: 04/04/2008 Posts: 630 |
That's 89 pounds per hp. |
|
Re: What tractor came from the factory wth most HP per weight ratio
|
Registered: 08/02/2008 Posts: 236 |
I have a original, unmolested, low hour Oliver 660 in the barn. It dyno's 45 hp and weighs 3300. 73.3 lb per horsepower in original trim. |
|
Re: What tractor came from the factory wth most HP per weight ratio
|
researcher
|
Tractordata.com = Oliver 660 = 4050 pounds, 27.99 tested drawbar horsepower. Do the math = 145 pounds for 1 horsepower. Not surprising for those Oliver heavy cast iron chassis.
A-C 190 XT tested drawbar hp is 100 # = 1.0 horsepower. Tested Official Drawbar Horsepower is the only Fair Way to assess power to weight ratio. The Ford 8210 lists a 401 engine gross hp of 110 but what is its actual drawbar hp? It appears the figures Sno Farmer gave are based on gross engine hp. Deutz 120-06 is 9261 pounds with a gross of 120 hp but not list a drawbar hp. I'm off to work. Enjoy a wonderful Christmas, everyone. |
|
Re: What tractor came from the factory wth most HP per weight ratio
|
billee,
|
Ya boiz datt olliiee 66 was never stock widtha 45 poniezzzzzzzz. Most likely candidate will be some small compact with a diesel,maybe a "BOOMER' ? |
|
Re: What tractor came from the factory wth most HP per weight ratio
|
Registered: 10/30/2018 Posts: 749 |
Pound for pound the little wd 45 was a tough little tractor in the field as well as on the track even in stock form |
|
Re: What tractor came from the factory wth most HP per weight ratio
|
Georgee
|
Ya furr surrr u betchaaa,Billie mentioned that way up in this discussion, lower weight,higher hp compact.Happy New Tr. to all |
|
Re: What tractor came from the factory wth most HP per weight ratio
|
Moderator Registered: 01/11/2009 Posts: 1,577 |
4610SU Ford was 88# per hp, figuring at pto. Theres a narrow version that figures out above 90. Bryan Lively -
|
|
Re: What tractor came from the factory wth most HP per weight ratio
|
John Deere Man
|
I believe it was a john deere 4000,it was 95hp @7230 in a standard shift. |
|
Re: What tractor came from the factory wth most HP per weight ratio
|
Registered: 03/25/2008 Posts: 2,526 |
I agree with Sno Farmer, lbs/hp makes more sense to calculate even though it sounds a little weird.
Tractordata.com shows the John Deere 4000 tested at 8,605 lbs and 96.89 hp (PTO). 8605 lbs. / 96.89 hp = 88.81 lbs/hp When I was growing up some of the smaller dairy farms would have a SAME tractor and they were a pretty cool novelty for me to see in the fields as a kid. For the longest time I thought they were Japanese tractors (not Italian). They had had a reputation for being powerful tractors for their small size. So I did about 2 minutes of digging and found: SAME Argon 70 Classic 4574 lbs. / 70 hp = 65.2 lbs/hp Seems like the vineyard/compact categories are probably some of the most powerful for their weight (good news for those who want a compact diesel class here in the US). Jake Morgan Owner, PULLOFF.COM Independent Pulling News This page is a free service. The cost is covered out of my pocket. It takes a great deal of time and a fair amount of money to keep this website going. Donations for: photos, classified ads, forum discussion, etc... are appreciated. Side Note: We are no longer accepting PayPal donations. They have changed their terms of service and stated they would fine PayPal users for spreading "misinformation" and "hate, violence, racial or other forms of intolerance that is discriminatory". PayPal did not provide definitions for some of these vague terms. Woke corporate policies regarding "misinformation" could result in an automatic fine of $2,500 which would have been removed directly from the customer’s PayPal account. PayPal did backdown from some of their policies but quietly implemented portions of them in later terms of service. A financial institute has no right to monitor social media accounts or speech. This is unacceptable and I'll no longer do business with PayPal. |
|
Re: What tractor came from the factory wth most HP per weight ratio
|
Registered: 10/30/2018 Posts: 749 |
That SAME would have bee n a fun little tractor .I just cranked up the fuel and put a turbo on my little 3600 ford this past week hoping to save time in the yard and garden |
|
Re: What tractor came from the factory wth most HP per weight ratio
|
green man
|
I believe your right the 4000 had same rear as 3020 with same engine as 4020 the 4000 was a runner 4020 was a lugger.If I remember correctly the 4000 could pull a 3 furrow plow a gear faster than a 4020 could pull a 4 furrow getting the same work done in a 10 hour day. |
|
Re: What tractor came from the factory wth most HP per weight ratio
|
Hans Gruber
|
4000 did not have a 3020 rear end. 4010 rear end, 4020 power plant, and 3020 lift arms is what the 4000 consisted of. |
|
Re: What tractor came from the factory wth most HP per weight ratio
|
Registered: 12/03/2013 Posts: 74 |
Sorry, Wrong again. The 4000 had a late model 4020 rear end with less options. The 4000 had it own unique final drive assemblies that had the small axle shaft diameter 3.125. Same diameter as used one the 3030 and 4010. No 3020 or 4010 transmission castings or parts on the 4000 other than the lighter 3 point arms as used on the late 3020. Parts catalog does not lie, take a look. DW |
|
Re: What tractor came from the factory wth most HP per weight ratio
|
Registered: 04/04/2008 Posts: 1,522 |
Not sure on the numbers, but the 1940s yrs that used the Chrysler powertrain were pretty powerful for thier weight.a friend has one that is original and in the 3500 to 3700 lbs area,and the book says 90 hp for the engine |
|
Re: What tractor came from the factory wth most HP per weight ratio
|
Registered: 03/25/2008 Posts: 2,526 |
Patches,
The only Chrysler powered tractors that I can remember were CO-OPs. Do you have any more details? Jake Morgan Owner, PULLOFF.COM Independent Pulling News This page is a free service. The cost is covered out of my pocket. It takes a great deal of time and a fair amount of money to keep this website going. Donations for: photos, classified ads, forum discussion, etc... are appreciated. Side Note: We are no longer accepting PayPal donations. They have changed their terms of service and stated they would fine PayPal users for spreading "misinformation" and "hate, violence, racial or other forms of intolerance that is discriminatory". PayPal did not provide definitions for some of these vague terms. Woke corporate policies regarding "misinformation" could result in an automatic fine of $2,500 which would have been removed directly from the customer’s PayPal account. PayPal did backdown from some of their policies but quietly implemented portions of them in later terms of service. A financial institute has no right to monitor social media accounts or speech. This is unacceptable and I'll no longer do business with PayPal. |
|
Re: What tractor came from the factory wth most HP per weight ratio
|
Moderator Registered: 01/11/2009 Posts: 1,577 |
Jake, Massey Harris used a Chrysler 6 before moving on to a Continental in the 101 series. Bryan Lively -
|
|
Re: What tractor came from the factory wth most HP per weight ratio
|
Registered: 06/16/2017 Posts: 90 |
And don't forget the Friday tractors. |
|
Re: What tractor came from the factory wth most HP per weight ratio
|
Registered: 12/14/2010 Posts: 81 |
Versatille 1156 470 hp 25550 lbs 54.25 hp to weight |
|
Re: What tractor came from the factory wth most HP per weight ratio
|
Registered: 03/25/2008 Posts: 2,526 |
Versatile is our new leader. I'm pretty surprised a beast like that could be ordered that light. Nice find.
The Fendt 1050 is in the 50's (but barely) 30865 lbs / 517 hp = 59.70 lbs/hp (it was originally rated at 500 hp but they've since upped it to 517) Jake Morgan Owner, PULLOFF.COM Independent Pulling News This page is a free service. The cost is covered out of my pocket. It takes a great deal of time and a fair amount of money to keep this website going. Donations for: photos, classified ads, forum discussion, etc... are appreciated. Side Note: We are no longer accepting PayPal donations. They have changed their terms of service and stated they would fine PayPal users for spreading "misinformation" and "hate, violence, racial or other forms of intolerance that is discriminatory". PayPal did not provide definitions for some of these vague terms. Woke corporate policies regarding "misinformation" could result in an automatic fine of $2,500 which would have been removed directly from the customer’s PayPal account. PayPal did backdown from some of their policies but quietly implemented portions of them in later terms of service. A financial institute has no right to monitor social media accounts or speech. This is unacceptable and I'll no longer do business with PayPal. |
|
Re: What tractor came from the factory wth most HP per weight ratio
|
Registered: 01/16/2010 Posts: 149 |
Montgomery Wards Custom Tractors had Chrysler 6 cylinder engines with dual exhaust. However I believe they were built by the CO OP manufacturing co. And sold as Wards Custom. I remember a guy pulling one of these at our local county fair tug pull, he won the 5100, and 7200 lb classes. |
|
Re: What tractor came from the factory wth most HP per weight ratio
|
researcher
|
Well, Jake, your 2nd 12/24 response starts with: "Nothing is wrong with it, who said there was something wrong with it? I'm not even sure why you made that assumption." "That assumption" is because your 1st 12/24 response stated: "I agree with Sno Farmer, lbs/hp makes more sense to calculate even though it sounds a little weird."
Well, Jake, with my first response, which happens to be just above Sno Farmer 1st response, I had already stated pounds per horsepower. And stipulated it in drawbar horsepower. But, you go and endorse SnoFarmer who did not stipulate which type of horsepower he was using. But in my 2nd response, I stated: "It appears the figures Sno Farmer gave are based on gross engine hp." That just so happens to make quite a difference in lbs./hp. That is why I gave my reasons why drawbar horsepower makes logical sense. And I am the only one to have given any reasons for choosing a certain type of tested horsepower. And yet, I am the one to get attacked in your reply. I, too, grew up in western NY. I know what is was like chopping with a 1, then a 2 row corn chopper (likewise with a corn picker). The tractor pulled a corn chopper which had hooked directly behind it, a medium duty Ford truck equipped with a good size silage box equipped with a hoist. So the tractor PTO hp was important but even more so was Drawbar hp, especially in those wet fall weather years where getting prime silage out of the field was important in that soft and even muddy soil condition. (Once the truck was loaded with freshly chopped silage, the wagon tongue was unhooked from the truck's front axle / steering tie rod, and drive the truck to the silo, dumping the silage into the Papec auger type silage blower into the silo. Incidentally, the blower was driven by the heavy duty 8" wide, maybe 10", maybe 12" belt. I guess we need to consider belt hp, too, in this thread.) 3 point hitch is basically another means of Drawbar hp - prime example was the days of a semi-mounted plow. I will give you the benefit that perhaps front PTO & 3 point hitch is becoming more common. Likely in certain locations. Such as the dairy industry. But you come out here to the Midwest and look at a lot of the big (articulated) tractors that do lots of grain farming and you will still find lots of "bareback" beasts whose sole function are using its drawbar to pull primary and secondary tillage equipment. Those big tractors that are equipped with 3 point and / or PTO likely are planter and / or grain cart tractors, too. So to show all of you the disparity of which type of horspower to utilize to convert to Lbs. / HP, lets look at the popular JD 8420, courtesy of tractordata.com. Engine (gross): 284 hp [211.8 kW] Engine (net): 270 hp [201.3 kW] Engine (max): 314 hp [234.1 kW] PTO (claimed): 235 hp [175.2 kW] Drawbar (tested): 207.49 hp [154.7 kW] PTO (tested): 269.41 hp [200.9 kW] So which of those 6 hp figures do you really want to use? Engine (max) of 314 hp (likely no water pump, fan blades, alternator, AC, hydraulic pump, transmission, what else?) loses 35% of its Max hp to get to downright honest working Drawbar hp. Now that happens to be a huge difference in Lbs./hp. And since this is a front wheel drive tractor with an available 2 front axles, which shipping weight do you want to use in your calculation? 21,650 - Standard front solid axle 23,050 - Independent Link Suspension optional axle (23780 - Operating weight) |
|
Re: What tractor came from the factory wth most HP per weight ratio
|
Registered: 04/04/2008 Posts: 630 |
Just to be clear I simply went to the tractor data page look at the weight and the gross HP. I wasn't looking to get super to technical but was just interested in a few numbers. I would agree with you the it should likey be drawbar HP not gross in this thread that Lewis started. I thought it was an interesting as it would pertain to our pulling world.
S'no Farmer |
|
Re: What tractor came from the factory wth most HP per weight ratio
|
Registered: 03/25/2008 Posts: 2,526 |
Well, the answer for that is simple... SnoFarmer used his name and when I read his post his name stuck in my memory. The name "researcher" didn't stick in my head because there's no consistency and regularity to posts by "researcher". I'm not saying you did anything wrong, but my brain just remembered SnoFarmer's comments because of his regularity. It was a simple and innocent oversight on my part, I had no idea you'd be so sensitive about it. You're right, you were first to suggest lbs/hp Um, no, no your not. My entire second paragraph was why Drawbar hp is not the best measurement. I also stated "I think most new tractor ads and literature simply use engine HP as their measurement standard... the industry seems to have adopted engine HP for ease of measurement". My last sentence was "drawbar HP is not available for every make and model so it simply rules out too many tractors". So to summarize why drawbar is not the best measurement in my opinion and engine hp is: 1. Tractors do more than just pulling (especially now days) 2. Ease of measurement (it's what the industry uses now days). 3. Not all tractors are tested so it rules too many out. That's three reasons right there. Huh? You got attacked by me? Where? Disagreement is not getting attacked. Again, where? Weight and traction were far more important in those soft and muddy conditions than drawbar horsepower. Again if you only care about pulling then drawbar power is great but a tractor does much much more than just pull. I used the simple example of chopping corn to show that it's not always about drawbar hp. Chopping was/is always about PTO horsepower. You don't need much more than 20 or 30 drawbar hp to pull a chopper and a full forage wagon through the field (even less really, you could chop with a John Deere A or B and pull a full wagon through the field.) but you couldn't chop more than one row... really slow. 80-100 PTO hp would get you two rows and 120-150 and you could chop three rows, but you still only needed about 20-30 drawbar hp to pull everything through the field. Infact if you look at modern choppers they have +1100 hp and they seldom (or ever) pull a wagon. Almost all the power goes to the head (PTO). PTO or engine hp were much more important. Again, tractors do more than just plow. Haha. Sure, that's fine. See reasons 1-3 above why I think engine HP makes more sense than the other options. (Oh, and in your example above the net hp and PTO (tested) hp seem pretty darn close and it's close enough to engine gross hp that if anyone used any of those in their example then I wouldn't be bothered either. ;>) Agreed... as I stated in my other post, If your only pulling then drawbar power is a great measure. However, I'm not sure if I mentioned it yet, but tractors do more than just pull these days. Well, since the goal is to find the lightest and most powerful... I'm going to go with the lightest weight ;>) Thanks for your response and thanks for adding to the conversation, I just disagree with one of your measurement assumptions. I didn't do the math on all the suggestions but I think the little SAME Argon 70 Classic (4574 lbs. / 70 hp = 65.2 lbs/hp) is still in the lead for the best. I don't think anything else has really come close yet. Jake Morgan Owner, PULLOFF.COM Independent Pulling News This page is a free service. The cost is covered out of my pocket. It takes a great deal of time and a fair amount of money to keep this website going. Donations for: photos, classified ads, forum discussion, etc... are appreciated. Side Note: We are no longer accepting PayPal donations. They have changed their terms of service and stated they would fine PayPal users for spreading "misinformation" and "hate, violence, racial or other forms of intolerance that is discriminatory". PayPal did not provide definitions for some of these vague terms. Woke corporate policies regarding "misinformation" could result in an automatic fine of $2,500 which would have been removed directly from the customer’s PayPal account. PayPal did backdown from some of their policies but quietly implemented portions of them in later terms of service. A financial institute has no right to monitor social media accounts or speech. This is unacceptable and I'll no longer do business with PayPal. |
|
Re: What tractor came from the factory wth most HP per weight ratio
|
Got one
|
A WD-45 gas came with fluid in the rear tires std equip from the factory and weighed about 4500 lbs (13.6 x28 std tire 14.9 x 28 optional). BUT, without fluid, my WD45 wide front weighs 3600 lbs, which gets the numbers at 80 lbs per belt HP. But, like I say...fluid was standard equipment.. |
|
Re: What tractor came from the factory wth most HP per weight ratio
|
El Deero
|
Some of the large frame row crops like an 8400 Deere would probably rank high up there. At 202hp drawbar and 18,700 lbs that figures to roughly 92.6lbs/hp. |
|
Re: What tractor came from the factory wth most HP per weight ratio
|
researcher
|
And Jake, I have been giving lbs./hp stats. So what is wrong with what I have presented?
Gross hp or PTO hp is not equivalent to Drawbar hp, which is net horsepower applied to whatever is being pulled. Out on the pulling track, it is Drawbar hp, not Gross or PTO hp, being applied. You guys can talk all you want about Gross &/or PTO hp, but you are not comparing what the tractor is actually doing, usually pulling something, which is the primary purpose that a tractor was designed for. |
|
Re: What tractor came from the factory wth most HP per weight ratio
|
Registered: 03/25/2008 Posts: 2,526 |
Nothing is wrong with it, who said there was something wrong with it? I'm not even sure why you made that assumption. As for PTO/Belt vs. drawbar vs. engine... the original question didn't specify how to measure the power. You've made an assumption that your way to measure is better, but it's still an assumption. Sure tractors pull things, but amazingly tractors runs all different sorts of implements, not just a disc or plow. It's not 1918 with a Rumely Oil Pull. When I was growing up here in Western New York, HP at the PTO mattered to small farms who pulled 1/2/3 row choppers through the fields. Drawbar HP didn't mean squat when you wanted to chop more rows of corn. Sure it helped when you wanted to pull more bottoms when plowing but farming isn't one dimensional. Hence the 3-point hitch. Infact the more that tractors evolve, the more they use PTO powered implements. Front PTO and 3-point is getting more and more common. Actually, I think most new tractor ads and literature simply use engine HP as their measurement standard. I'm not saying one way is always better than the other, (your way is definitely better if you're simply pulling things) but the industry seems to have adopted engine HP for ease of measurement, so that's simply what I did as well. Especially since, as you mentioned, drawbar HP is not available for every make and model so it simply rules out too many tractors. Jake Morgan Owner, PULLOFF.COM Independent Pulling News This page is a free service. The cost is covered out of my pocket. It takes a great deal of time and a fair amount of money to keep this website going. Donations for: photos, classified ads, forum discussion, etc... are appreciated. Side Note: We are no longer accepting PayPal donations. They have changed their terms of service and stated they would fine PayPal users for spreading "misinformation" and "hate, violence, racial or other forms of intolerance that is discriminatory". PayPal did not provide definitions for some of these vague terms. Woke corporate policies regarding "misinformation" could result in an automatic fine of $2,500 which would have been removed directly from the customer’s PayPal account. PayPal did backdown from some of their policies but quietly implemented portions of them in later terms of service. A financial institute has no right to monitor social media accounts or speech. This is unacceptable and I'll no longer do business with PayPal. |
|
Re: What tractor came from the factory wth most HP per weight ratio
|
Registered: 10/30/2018 Posts: 749 |
Originally horse power was based on what 1 horse could do in an hours time Jake the old Oil pull tractor you mentioned was low rated HP but weighed tons and could actually do the work it was rated for as for dragging a plow.The Neb test wasn,t necessarily based on the shipping weight some are at full ballast But go to the Neb test and see if any other 45 hp tractor was ever rated as a 4 plow tractor other than the little wd 45 no fluid and take the wide front off and go to a tricycle and loose another 100 lbs from the wd to make it 3500 pounds |
|
Re: What tractor came from the factory wth most HP per weight ratio
|
Georgee
|
4 plow,---- come on it takes weight to pull,ain;t no wd 45 pulling 4 anything in my ground |
|
Re: What tractor came from the factory wth most HP per weight ratio
|
Got one
|
Some areas of the country, they actally did pull a 4 bottom plow. It was an AC semi-mounted plow to make use of the tractors hydraulic Traction Booster weight transfer system. The 900 lbs of fluid would have been in both rear tires and extra cast iron wheel weights also front and rear to have enough weight to do the job. Where I come from 3 x 16's slat bottoms were plenty most days. |
|
Re: What tractor came from the factory wth most HP per weight ratio
|
hotdaugg
|
with the little tires,and funny allis only coupler,they could have been much better over all with more common stuff |
|
Re: What tractor came from the factory wth most HP per weight ratio
|
Just a thought AC D19 with a turbo |
|
Re: What tractor came from the factory wth most HP per weight ratio
|
Jason Hohman
|
Ford 861 3500 lbs 48 pto hp. |
|
Re: What tractor came from the factory wth most HP per weight ratio
|
Mother Deere
|
5100 GN Deere, 100hp 5864 lbs with MFWD. |
|
Re: What tractor came from the factory wth most HP per weight ratio
|
Major problem8v8
|
The MFWD will add weight and take away from the HP to Weight ratio |
|
Re: What tractor came from the factory wth most HP per weight ratio
|
Mother deere
|
You're 7 for 28 Sheldon, that was the point. LOL |
|
Re: What tractor came from the factory wth most HP per weight ratio
|
Registered: 11/04/2008 Posts: 48 |
not to hi-jack your thread, but wasnt there a picture taken at Freedom Hall many years ago with an AC G ,stating it pulled the most weight percentage of its own weight, ? |
|
Re: What tractor came from the factory wth most HP per weight ratio
|
Registered: 01/16/2010 Posts: 149 |
My friend had a G. They are heavier than they look. I think on the light side .maybe around 1200 lbs a d Their hp was around 10 hp or so. Which would. Be close to 120lbs/hp |
|
Re: What tractor came from the factory wth most HP per weight ratio
|
Registered: 08/02/2008 Posts: 236 |
Be careful Jason, "researcher" is going to crucify you since you didn't do it his way. He's the self appointed decider of how this is done. |
|
Re: What tractor came from the factory wth most HP per weight ratio
|
nothappin'n
|
Percentage pulls are kinda interesting,if you have a lighter weight puller that performs well,you can "open" some eyes by the way you do with percentage. |
|
Re: What tractor came from the factory wth most HP per weight ratio
|
researcher
|
Oh, so now I'm crucifying people. Really! How interesting.
As I stated last night, I am the only one to state the reasons for specificying a certain type horsepower, in order to make the lbs./hp comparison FAIR. No one else has stated why they believe some other form of lbs./hp is the fair way, other than Jake making a feeble attempt for PTO. Not every tractor is equipped with a PTO. But every tractor I have ever seen is equipped with a drawbar. And I have seen lots of makes & models and even have operated a pretty wide range of makes & models over my years. But I keep getting slandered. But who else has put more time (& research) into presenting bona fide facts in this thread than myself, trying to make the thread not only interesting but relevant to tractor pulling, which is what a tractor was originally designed for - drawbar horsepower. What is so hard to understand about that? Thank you SnoFarmer Todd that you agreed with me soon after I posted last night. (I do not know why that posting got tucked in where it did, when I had gone to the bottom of the thread to do my response). Yes, you are correct that all this is very relevant to tractor pulling. Of course, that is what a tractor was designed for - drawbar horsepower. To replace those smelly work horses that were pulling things, more or less with a drawbar. Let's see, what else do I need to do to convince some of you people with facts? But apparently, that is called "crucify" in today's absurd politically correct society. But, most likely, every poster in this thread thinks they are the only correct answer, too. Correct "sfd823", including yourself? Can we not have a thread where we can all learn? And cooperate, whether each person agrees or not? Well, I need to get get some constructive work accomplished. |
|
Re: What tractor came from the factory wth most HP per weight ratio
|
Registered: 10/30/2018 Posts: 749 |
Researcher your doing a good job maybe you could go over all the tractors mentioned above and give us a winner with what we have so far |
|
Re: What tractor came from the factory wth most HP per weight ratio
|
Registered: 10/30/2018 Posts: 749 |
Theres been a lot of good tractors mentioned the Neb test has been a good source .It looks like Allis Chamblers has made tractors thats left an impression on a lot of people .It surprises me that A old super M has not been mentioned which i know by the Neb test wouldnt show it high hp per weight but in the field on a wheal disk or any drag implement they didnt make em any tougher |
|
Re: What tractor came from the factory wth most HP per weight ratio
|
Joey
|
researcher,-you are intelligent enough to know better than to push your opinion on others,we all have our own,you are false on your assumtions and more,many older tractors were only used for belt pulley power and moved so slow that no usable moving or pulling work was able to be a function of their presence. I have seen horses walk on a tread mill affair to turn an axle to be used for work,and walk around in a circle to turn a gear box,performing work and making power ,- but not pulling anything.On any open forum we are all subject to criticism and opinions of others,write a book and have in published with facts,specifics and truths,but why. As stated previously,some unknown little unit of no big impact on GNP is propably the king of power to weight ratio. Mini rods and unlimited Mods are close in their power to weight ratio,and under one lb. per hp is very fun, and dangerous to operate. |
|
Re: What tractor came from the factory wth most HP per weight ratio
|
Moderator Registered: 01/11/2009 Posts: 1,577 |
This has been a pretty interesting discussion thus far and many examples provided based on brand allegiance and experience. While measured drawbar horsepower is the preferred measure in many minds, the more reliable and repeatable measure is in fact PTO horsepower. The reason why drawbar is a poor measure is that parameters for measurement from tractor to tractor are different and their submitted setups for measurement to the Nebraska test station might are optimized, no different than testing for MPG in cars today which we've found is pretty convoluted and not "real-world" data (ever heard of Dieselgate?).
That being said, punched in the numbers on some tractors that I've been around and played on a hunch of a space in time for optimal lbs/hp that is asked here. During the late nineties when emissions were becoming more of an issue, the two manufacturers I have the most experience with Ford-New Holland and Massey started putting turbos on small utility tractors. By the numbers I used from tractordata.com I calculated 82-83lb/hp on the models I sourced, a 3930 Ford and a 253 Massey. In grander, egg-head college educated terms, if the Least Significant Difference between the 2 tractors is 4hp, then the tractors offer no difference in horsepower, of the two I measured, in terms of lbs/hp. Further, if we're wanting to go down the slippery slope that this conversation offers, pouring over the data offered at the Nebraska Test Station website is an egg-heads dream, with horsepower measurements well beyond simple numbers "at the drawbar" and "pto." Download a few .pdfs they have available from tests and you'll see what I mean, that one number isn't the true "number" and they're basically calculating at some parameters, if you take the time to plot the data points, that all-the-more-important measure, horsepower under the curve. Which reminds me of a story, and then I'll shut up. Back in the day I lived in a farmhouse while in college and did some chorin' for the farmer who owned the place to keep my lodging up to date. I sowed some winter wheat for him with a 2350 Deere and an old Deere seed drill. That tractor, unless you had it half throttle or more, would stall taking off with the drill on the ground. Meanwhile back at home on weekends I had a 4600 Ford with a similar, but older model of the same drill (same width/# of openers) and I could idle that tractor around, and I never stalled it, taking off at less than half-throttle. So, to stir this pot just a little more, being these were similar rated hp tractors, pretty similar weighted/ballasted, which one was more powerful? Which could claim victory in this lb/hp war? What's more important, a test in laboratory conditions or actual field experience? Bryan Lively -
|
|
Re: What tractor came from the factory wth most HP per weight ratio
|
Registered: 04/04/2008 Posts: 630 |
That sounds like a big difference in torque. My Father-in-Law has several Kubota tractors,his first one was 53 HP but had almost no torque it had to be run at almost full throttle to do any work at all. The others had way more torque but not a lot more HP and would do work just off idle. Just a different kind of power.
S'no Farmer |
|
Practice what you preach
|
Preacher
|
Researcher you need to practice what you preach. |
|
Re: What tractor came from the factory wth most HP per weight ratio
|
Registered: 03/19/2018 Posts: 662 |
Were all these tested at 18" back, 20" up, rigid in all directions?
|
|
Quick get researcher a pacifier
|
Outsider looking in.
|
Would someone please get researcher a pacifier and some butthurt ointment. Grow up dude!
I think all opinions are important regarding this matter. There are many ways to get an answer in regards to horsepower and weight. It's all in how we each choose to view it. I'm with Dick on this one. |
|
Re: Quick get researcher a pacifier
|
plum krazy
|
Bryan L. shows us with his example the reason some tractors pull mile per hour classes better than others,set up,cam,fuel curve,torque curve and driver choices. Al most a new yr. |
|
Re: What tractor came from the factory wth most HP per weight ratio
|
researcher
|
I am so sorry I have contributed to this thread with facts and reasoning, which obviously ruffled way too many tender feathers.
And, no, "outsider looking in", I do not need what you suggested. And your statement: "There are many ways to get an answer in regards to horsepower and weight. It's all in how we each choose to view it." Just what do you think I presented in my response last night with the stats of the JD 8420? But the good news is that with keeping of today's society of fairness to all, every contributor to this thread, is worthy of a championship huge gold plated participation trophy. All you have to do now is to just envision it in your mind. But, "outsider looking in", unfortunately, I do not see where "Dick" was a contributor. |
|
Re: Quick get researcher a pacifier
|
Registered: 01/16/2010 Posts: 149 |
If lawn tractors count, A Cub Cadet SLT1554 comes in at 567 lbs at 27hp gives us 21 lbs per hp. Some of the later Speedex models probably rank up there pretty well too. However some of these small lawn tractors with large twin cylinder engines will be hard to overcome. |
|
Re: Quick get researcher a pacifier
|
Georgee
|
I am pretty sure in the interest of all,those were not to be included in this sampling,they are a whole other topic.On the other hand certain ant species can carry many times their weight,thus performing work,maybe not pull,but work,hp is calculated in a factor that uses time with effort or energy spent to show accomplishment |
|
Re: Quick get researcher a pacifier
|
Ant police
|
Now Georgee, you better consult with researcher before you go throwing ants in the mix. you are probably not using the right formula for calculating "ant hp" lol |
|
Re: Quick get researcher a pacifier
|
Ant police
|
Also, when did you ever see a drawbar on an ant for petes sake! |
|
Re: Quick get researcher a pacifier
|
Georgee
|
I already addressed that issue,work performed is in the hp equation, it takes some sort of fuel to make hp,as the old wise one said,for each and every action,-- there is an equal and opposite reaction,example,- open mouth give an opinion,exert so much energy in a positive manner,,, wait for it, --- next thing you know is opposite reaction with anothers often times negative opinion raining down on my parade.If you want to get creative the radio control planes,cars and such might be the beast of all,makes what,one - two hp,weighs what,10 - 20 #z. Anyway an ole friend of mine was at a little local fun type pull with his super "H" ,an old local man with years under his belt looked at that "H" and told my friend that," AN H CAN'T PULL A WEINY OUT OF A GREASE PAIL". Now I don't care what color you wear,like drive or worship,-- that there is mighty funny. And let me add,that old SUPER H did pull,with 18.4 x 38s on and surelly did surprise the snot right out of many nonbelievers.Happt New Yrs,may the eggnog come out your nostrils a nd run down your new Christmas present sweatshirt and make a mess. Thanks Morgan's for the space,the place and opportunity to express views,pic,info,opinions,humor and friendship,commradary and more. |
|
Re: What tractor came from the factory wth most HP per weight ratio
|
researcher
|
An ant has an absolutely amazing and efficient 3 point hitch! Very efficient little characters!! Bet they do not argue over lbs./hp. They just get busy and work. |
|
Re: Quick get researcher a pacifier
|
Registered: 01/16/2010 Posts: 149 |
Ok Georgee, here is an actual Agricultural tractor, it is a Agrinar T-120 its weight is 4580 lbs, and 119 hp. comes out to 38.5 lbs/hp.
some of these imports are light and powerful! Interesting topic. rw |
Website Statistics
Global: Topics: 38,618, Posts: 229,674, Members: 3,325.
This forum: Topics: 37,064, Posts: 225,890.
Global: Topics: 38,618, Posts: 229,674, Members: 3,325.
This forum: Topics: 37,064, Posts: 225,890.
Our newest member JD_8520
