11:06:04am, Thursday, May 02, 2024
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What is the largest Pro Stock turbo available at this time, and who makes it.
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What is the largest Pro Stock turbo available at this time , and who makes it? |
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Re: What is the largest Pro Stock turbo available at this time, and who makes it.
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Registered: 10/18/2011 Posts: 262 |
I think it is built by Wiemers and is 5.7"-to- 6" if i heard correct. But in Turbo World it changes weekly, so those numbers are probably to small !! LOL |
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Re: What is the largest Pro Stock turbo available at this time, and who makes it.
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holecow
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got to be getting to end of what they can spin ????? |
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Re: What is the largest Pro Stock turbo available at this time, and who makes it.
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Nope
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It’s not even close to what they can spin yet. Keeping them together would be the issue |
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Re: What is the largest Pro Stock turbo available at this time, and who makes it.
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grenade
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I completely agree that we haven't yet reached the point where they can't spin one.
The sad fact is this march will continue at a pace of probably .100" - .200" increments, probably with new releases every 4-6 weeks during peak season, for the next couple of years. By that time this class will be so elite and volatile that we should be heading in exactly the direction of SSD..........and we all see how well that's working out. Queue the whiners that will say I'm stopping "innovation" and "progress". This path is just another reminder of why some current classes need to ensure limits are kept in check. It's not about cost of the components, it's about keeping the thing alive long enough to pull a complete season now. |
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Re: What is the largest Pro Stock turbo available at this time, and who makes it.
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Registered: 04/04/2008 Posts: 631 |
While I agree 100% with most of what you said I do disagree with the cost comment. The cost are to me as big of an issue as keeping the engines together. Think about the cost of replacing $15,000 turbos (low end prices from what I'm told) two or three times a summer particularly for teams that have more than one tractor. These guys are looking at spending upwards of $60,000 a summer just keep up not to mention all of the other maintenance necessary for these tractors. I talked last winter to a pro stock puller, he said in the past you could buy a good state of the art turbo run it for three or four years and still be competitive...not the case these days.
We are running in into the same issues with V-8 blower engines, the suppliers have been making big strides in improvements every year leaving teams like us to decide if we can afford to spend the amount (or even if we want to) of money to up grade four engines with $12,000 blowers. Once again these are concidered to be the low end blowers cost wise. Can we sell the old blowers, sure if you can find some one that wants outdated blowers. Not always an easy thing to do. I'm sure there is a similar situation with turbos. The one thing that I'm seeing with the manufacturers is the technologies that they use is much improved in that they can make changes to their products on a computer program then apply it to their product on a CNC machine then test it at a relatively low cost . If the changes make an improvement they then apply that improvement to the products that they are selling. If you as a puller want to stay at the top of the sport you have to then pony up the money and are likely stuck with and old part that not many people want. Don't get me wrong I'm not blaming the manufacturers that is what they are in business do. We as pullers are our own worst enemy,we want the power and want to win be dammed the rest. I'm not sure where the Merry-Go-Round stops but it has been slowing down for a long time as there are less and less people willing to spend the money it takes to compete at the very top levels of the sport. I can honestly see a day when the very elite classes are for exibition only as there won't be enough competitors to field a class. I hope I'm wrong but things are steadily getting out of hand much as they have in NASCAR and NHRA. S'no Farmer |
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Re: What is the largest Pro Stock turbo available at this time, and who makes it.
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Registered: 12/01/2018 Posts: 108 |
So very well said!!!! |
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Re: What is the largest Pro Stock turbo available at this time, and who makes it.
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xxx
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if teams have more than one unit to pull,MONEY IS NO OBJECT,so new parts and upkeep should be a drop in the bucket. |
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Re: What is the largest Pro Stock turbo available at this time, and who makes it.
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Limited
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would the answer to the turbo size problem be to set a number they arent at yet and tell the pullers this is your limit. if its 6.25, 6.5, whatever that number might be have them shoot for that number and then work with that number it would seem that the chargers are getting bigger but is there effort to make for example a 5.5 inch charger as efficient as possible, able to produce similar or better power than a larger charger?
you have to admire where the power levels are now in the Super and Pro classes but even with what I just suggested the money will be diverted from a new bigger charger to a charger thats at the size limit and maximizing its capability. I guess my thought is that you might evolve from spending money on bigger whistles to getting updates done that in theory would be less expensive, or is that a myth too? also how long before we see 30 thousand dollar charger, no matter the size? |
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Re: What is the largest Pro Stock turbo available at this time, and who makes it.
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Peter T
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I think the Outlaws are on the right train of thought. They don't have huge numbers in their Prostock class but there are a good consistent number of vehicles that usually show. |
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The truth about the HP race.
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Moderator Registered: 03/25/2008 Posts: 1,446 |
Once more Todd is bold enough to tell it from a pullers perspective. The High HP classes will some day be exhibition classes if they exist at all. The sad truth about the ever increasing drive for increased HP is that it only benefits a small handful of pullers. Higher HP does not make a better show. The sport does not measure time, distance or weight being pulled. The track is still basically 300 feet long and the sleds gets almost ever class up and running at 30 plus MPH and then jerks them to a halt. What this never ending drive for increased HP has done is classes get smaller and smaller and costs keep driving more and more out of the sport. Is it the pullers fault, no. The fault lays directly at the feet of the leadership of pulling. I understand that if NTPA was to start limiting turbo size or cubic inches and PPL did not follow suit then most, if not all the pullers in the high HP classes would switch to PPL and vise versa. When we crossed the 3000 HP threshold in the hooded tractor classes we saw a significant reduction in competitors. Not immediately of course but over time numbers are down and cost is up. And what did the sport gain, nothing. Does this sport or it's leadership have a vision for the sport in 5 years or 10, no. It collects membership fees and put it's head in the sand. Is there any wonder that the classes that are growing all have either "limited" or "light" in their description. Dick Morgan www.PULLOFF.com Independent Pulling News |
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Re: The truth about the HP race.
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Registered: 12/19/2010 Posts: 163 |
Dick, how's that "Light unlimited mod" doing? Just putting the word "light " or "limited " does not equate to inexpensive. Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/06/2019 12:38PM by jd4455ssd. |
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Re: The truth about the HP race.
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Moderator Registered: 03/25/2008 Posts: 1,446 |
I can't disagree that the Light Unlimited class is not showing much growth. However the rules in that class are a prime example that bad rules either kill a class of make growth next to impossible. There was a chance to make the class exciting and the leadership once again did it wrong. |
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Re: The truth about the HP race.
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Registered: 03/17/2019 Posts: 65 |
Every couple of months this argument has been coming up. The truth no one wants to talk about. Things have been let to be out of control. The big classes have had little or no limitations and they have gone to a place where only an elite few can follow. Remember this is a show for the fans. You don't need 5000 hp supers and 4000hp pro stocks to entertain the crowd. This is why you will continue to see the growth of classes like LLSS. Is it so hard to understand what has happened and why.? $$$$$$$ ntpa has never been an organization to lead just collecting the money. They have made the same mistakes over and over again throughout their history.there should have never been a need for more than 3 tractor classes if it would have been handled correctly the first time. Every class has got to have some rules or guidelines to continue to exist it pains me to see one of the greatest original classes reduced to little of nothing (superstock) many will say there are no need for more limitations but how has that worked so far.
. |
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Re: What is the largest Pro Stock turbo available at this time, and who makes it.
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Registered: 04/04/2008 Posts: 631 |
XXX,
We are very fortunate to be able to do what we do. We run two tractors for several reasons,first we can afford it if just barely, second my wife likes to compete as much as I do,third we feel it is important to support the Mod classes as much as we can and I guess fourth would be that if we are going to travel all over the midwest why not haul two if we can swing it. Could we run one tractor and have the very best parts, sure but then the fans and promoters would have one less tractor in an already thin class not mention that one of us would have to set out and that is just not in our play book. S'no Farmer |
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Re: What is the largest Pro Stock turbo available at this time, and who makes it.
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xxx
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To ; S'no Farmer,thanks for a very nice cordial reply,kinda rare on here.I also take two sometimes,have several that I pull,not in big dollar classes thou,fun to use what I work on and build,travelling to new places is good. Glad you and your wife can enjoy as a team and family.May the season be long,fun and safe. |
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Re: What is the largest Pro Stock turbo available at this time, and who makes it.
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Registered: 03/27/2008 Posts: 1,149 |
That's actually one of the things I kinda don't understand, or let's say where the US pulling differs a lot to what is happening in Europe. A computer and CAD Software is a 1000 $ investment and these days you can buy a used, but still very capable "too slow for production" CNC mill for what a new blower costs. Yet still, everybody in the US just seems to "buy parts". Of course, at some point, it's "how much do you value your spare time" vs "costs of buying" but if you want to be creative and need an edge over the competition, you need to build some of your own stuff. LIke my old team has just come up with new brakes design that are so much lighter and working so much better than what has been used before - it gives them an edge over the competition. Same story with a lot of billet aluminum parts we built on our own - and then two to three years later we could buy them for less money from "the builders". But those two years - we had them and the competition didn't... Floating Finish - the German Tractor Pulling Web Show and EU Live Streams: [www.youtube.com] |
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Re: What is the largest Pro Stock turbo available at this time, and who makes it.
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Registered: 04/04/2008 Posts: 631 |
Sascha,
For me personally it comes down to knowledge and time. I'm barely computer literate enough to get on these sites and converse with people let alone work through a program on a CNC machine center. Secondly I have absolutely no knowledge of machining in general...my level of this is using a drill press. I don't really want to spend the time learning these things at 64 years old. I do have friends that design but don't build and some that do both. You are correct that most of us rely others to build our parts, not a lot of pulling teams in the US have many people working on the competition vehicles. It's usually 2 or 3 people at the most. With our team I do most of the tractor work by myself,me wife helps when she can and I have a teammate that put my engines together. He goes to as many events as he can but about 1/3 of the time it is just my wife and myself at the events with two mod tractors. Would I like to some of those skills,sure but during my working days I could make way more money doing what I was good at than learn these other skills by trial and error. I feel like I'm a pretty good puller but I'm just an OK welder and not a machinists at all. I can bolt almost anything together and make it work. I don't feel that I should be ashamed of the fact that I don't do everthing that there is to do on my pulling tractors. Besides all of that I'm not going to be able to build better parts than SSI,SCS,Veney and other people like them that have refined their products. S'no Farmer |
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Re: What is the largest Pro Stock turbo available at this time, and who makes it.
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Registered: 03/27/2008 Posts: 1,149 |
That's pretty much my own situation, too.
I can weld and bolt stuff together - and that's why I also buy a lot. Nevertheless, this was about "costs" and while some parts you better leave your hands off because "in small numbers" you can't compete with people who do "small series production" on common parts, when it comes to "the edge to win", it sure helps and is pretty cost effective to build and develop on your own. I just saw a picture of a new light unl. mod and my first thought was: "Yeah.. there's the 500 lbs you'd need on the nose to be better than the competition because your using parts that were designed 20 years ago and are off the shelf". I mean.. in a way it's nice that "innovation" and "hmd" can give you an edge over the competition, who, just like me, has to buy because they lack the skills and machinery. And I wouldn't be so sure about "can't do better than XY". If that was the case then there would be very little development and it would really ONLY be about who can buy the latest parts. This is what I was talking about: 
That whole rear end assembly with the sheet metal housing, 5 gear planetaries, the light double 4 piston design aluminum brakes - all homemade but makes a big difference in competition. There is a Humpco carrier in there of which we bought two - but the very first aluminum SQHD carrier we built before you could buy them. Ditto with the billet aluminum diffs that appeared on the market shortly after we had the pictures out on the internet. And the planetaries on that rear - you still can't buy anything that light and strong. Floating Finish - the German Tractor Pulling Web Show and EU Live Streams: [www.youtube.com] Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 05/10/2019 09:25AM by Sascha. |
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Re: What is the largest Pro Stock turbo available at this time, and who makes it.
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Fred
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Turbo size has become self limiting in Pro Stock, yes you can build a dyno king with a big turbo but it is nearly impossible to get that to hook to the track and have the range of driveability you need to put it on top every night. Rumor is that Daddy Don won Louisville with a 5.4... |
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Re: What is the largest Pro Stock turbo available at this time, and who makes it.
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xxx
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It is that way in every motor sport,highest power doesn't always mean Top Dogg,using it and getting it to the ground consistantly wins Championon ships. And like mentioned,dyno power is just that,many times not the same in actual use.Or like so many high tech units out there,breakage can be an issue. |
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Re: What is the largest Pro Stock turbo available at this time, and who makes it.
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Let them do what they want in pro stock. If you want limits run SF or limited pro. |
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Re: What is the largest Pro Stock turbo available at this time, and who makes it.
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lorax
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Re: What is the largest Pro Stock turbo available at this time, and who makes it.
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Registered: 09/10/2018 Posts: 126 |
35 years ago one of the greatest SS pullers of all time and he was also one of the greatest ambassadors for the sport said this and NOBODY wanted to listen! I sure wish he was still here. RIP Big John Klug |
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Re: What is the largest Pro Stock turbo available at this time, and who makes it.
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Registered: 06/16/2017 Posts: 241 |
Big John couldn’t of been more right?!!! |
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Re: What is the largest Pro Stock turbo available at this time, and who makes it.
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xxx
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Most motor sports Teams have access to machines to fix,build and repair parts,or else many would not be ready,or able to buy what they need,In the past I was lucky and fortunate to have a team member that loved to make new and unique parts,free,fast and was really proud to do it,He did not like making a simple bushing or regular normal part,he liked challenges and being very capable it worked out great.Sascha,we had hand machines back in the day,and he let me do some of my own work,and told me if I made it wrong it was on me,drilling cast hubs was a chore,soft and moved,I made splines and such,was fun to learn and be partnered with a friend that shared well. However he died young.May He Rest In Peace. |
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