10:38:42pm, Thursday, May 09, 2024
|
Screw blowers
|
Registered: 03/25/2008 Posts: 2,526 |
I just wanted to put a quick poll up about screw blowers. This is more a general question about whether they are good for the sport as a whole. If you want to comment about whether they are good for the Unlimited Mod or the Mod class or the Light Unlimited Mods please feel free to add a comment below this one. Maybe you think they should allow them in the Twd truck class or the Mini class, feel free to comment on that too. I wanted to keep the poll simple and general; so do you think they're good for the sport as a whole.. and why or why not? Jake Morgan Owner, PULLOFF.COM Independent Pulling News This page is a free service. The cost is covered out of my pocket. It takes a great deal of time and a fair amount of money to keep this website going. Donations for: photos, classified ads, forum discussion, etc... are appreciated. Side Note: We are no longer accepting PayPal donations. They have changed their terms of service and stated they would fine PayPal users for spreading "misinformation" and "hate, violence, racial or other forms of intolerance that is discriminatory". PayPal did not provide definitions for some of these vague terms. Woke corporate policies regarding "misinformation" could result in an automatic fine of $2,500 which would have been removed directly from the customer’s PayPal account. PayPal did backdown from some of their policies but quietly implemented portions of them in later terms of service. A financial institute has no right to monitor social media accounts or speech. This is unacceptable and I'll no longer do business with PayPal. |
|
Re: Screw blowers
|
Registered: 10/29/2018 Posts: 82 |
Only in unlimited mods . My opinion. |
|
Re: Screw blowers
|
longtimer
|
Discrimination here at its best, Jake! = "Only registered users are allowed to vote for this poll." |
|
Re: Screw blowers
|
Registered: 03/25/2008 Posts: 2,526 |
Feel free to register, it doesn't cost a thing and it only takes a few seconds.
The reason it's setup so only registered users can vote is because it only lets people vote once. If I set it up so anyone can vote then some idiot will ruin it for everyone and vote 50 times and screw with the results. For those commenting "Only in the Unlimited Class" are you refering to just the 8000 lb. Unlimited or the Light Unlimited too? Jake Morgan Owner, PULLOFF.COM Independent Pulling News This page is a free service. The cost is covered out of my pocket. It takes a great deal of time and a fair amount of money to keep this website going. Donations for: photos, classified ads, forum discussion, etc... are appreciated. Side Note: We are no longer accepting PayPal donations. They have changed their terms of service and stated they would fine PayPal users for spreading "misinformation" and "hate, violence, racial or other forms of intolerance that is discriminatory". PayPal did not provide definitions for some of these vague terms. Woke corporate policies regarding "misinformation" could result in an automatic fine of $2,500 which would have been removed directly from the customer’s PayPal account. PayPal did backdown from some of their policies but quietly implemented portions of them in later terms of service. A financial institute has no right to monitor social media accounts or speech. This is unacceptable and I'll no longer do business with PayPal. |
|
Re: Screw blowers
|
Registered: 10/29/2018 Posts: 82 |
8000lb unlimited. I wish the light was the 2 Hemis 14-71 or 3 8-71 chev. Model it off the outlaw mod class. The mid ninety’s that light class was an exciting class. It also gave the state level competitor a chance to step up and hit a major event. Just my opinion. 
|
|
Re: Screw blowers
|
Registered: 03/25/2008 Posts: 2,526 |
I agree 100% regarding the Light Mod class. Two Hemi's vs. Three Chevys, vs Twin Allisons would have been an awesome show. Jake Morgan Owner, PULLOFF.COM Independent Pulling News This page is a free service. The cost is covered out of my pocket. It takes a great deal of time and a fair amount of money to keep this website going. Donations for: photos, classified ads, forum discussion, etc... are appreciated. Side Note: We are no longer accepting PayPal donations. They have changed their terms of service and stated they would fine PayPal users for spreading "misinformation" and "hate, violence, racial or other forms of intolerance that is discriminatory". PayPal did not provide definitions for some of these vague terms. Woke corporate policies regarding "misinformation" could result in an automatic fine of $2,500 which would have been removed directly from the customer’s PayPal account. PayPal did backdown from some of their policies but quietly implemented portions of them in later terms of service. A financial institute has no right to monitor social media accounts or speech. This is unacceptable and I'll no longer do business with PayPal. |
|
Re: Screw blowers
|
Trumper
|
I love that only registered users can vote!
Keeps all the freeloaders out! It is easy and FREE to register! Just like a govt. issued ID !!! No discrimination at all. |
|
Re: Screw blowers
|
I personally feel that screws should stay in unlimited class. I understand the benefits of the screws but as someone who runs on an low budget you would be telling me to take off a perfectly good expensive blower/hat and 90 percent of my fuel system and throw in in a corner. Not to mention the manifold has to modified or new. Fuel distribution is completely different from my understanding also . So now you take something that was running perfectly fine and not hurting parts and set it back years. For what? Just to say it has a screw blower! It will not make the show better! Unless you like seeing teams struggle to not hurt parts. People always want something different or more power but the cost of the sport is bad enough . Lets not make it worse. |
|
Re: Screw blowers
|
Moderator Registered: 03/25/2008 Posts: 1,449 |
I also believe that they screw blower should be legal only in the Unlimited Modified class. The TWD and Mini classes both have good numbers and to allow them is of no benefit to either the pullers or the show. And allowing them in the Light Unlimited class is a sure thing class killer. Dick Morgan www.PULLOFF.com Independent Pulling News |
|
Re: Screw blowers
|
Registered: 04/04/2008 Posts: 1,523 |
I voted no.let the other engine combos catch up first,then I can see allowing the screws |
|
Re: Screw blowers
|
Registered: 07/06/2008 Posts: 1,347 |
Unlimited, yes.
Light unlimited, I would not have allowed them and kept it to 14-71. . How many light unlimiteds run them? I know Corzines do, but don't Simons and Wayson run 18-71s? Not sure about Theobolds. I did hear an interview with Ashley Corzine and she mentioned the possibility of adding engines at some point, and ditto for Theobold. My point: Even if the screws were banned tomorrow in the Light Unlimited class, those pullers could do what they've thought about doing and move up to the unlimited class. 7500 mod GN class: 2, yes. 3, no. The triple 14-71 combo is competitive with the four 8-71 combo. Allowing triple screw or 18-71 would mess up the class. Twd and Mini ( and SMFWD) -no Here is another question: PPL has a consistent 10-11 mods. Several have added larger blowers or another engine to run NTPA when the schedule allows. At some point, will PPL go full unlimited since several of their pullers already have a successful unlimited combination? Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 09/05/2019 05:58AM by The Original Michael. |
|
Re: Screw blowers
|
Registered: 03/19/2018 Posts: 664 |
What he said. |
|
Re: Screw blowers
|
Bob T
|
I think the question is to broad about the screw blowers. In unlimited mods it may be ok.but not in some other classes. I would like to see the poll ask yes or no for every class that allows blowers. |
|
Re: Screw blowers
|
Fan
|
I thought all the "problems" in Light Unlimited were going to be fixed when they ran Adam Bauer off?! It surely didn't make the class any cheaper as promised, and hurt the quality of the show from a spectator perspective. The top guys in GN have never wanted to go slower than the year before in any class in any motorsport for that matter and that's what makes it a GN level competition.Everyone can't afford to run GN stuff, so what? Other guys it's pocket change! Run what you CAN afford, just don't keep cheapening the GN shows with starter classes. I personally haven't cared a bit for Light Unlimited since they ran Bauer out as it is nothing but a 2 hemi class now and we are NOT seeing the best the class can offer. |
|
Re: Screw blowers
|
Registered: 03/25/2008 Posts: 2,526 |
Bob, I kept the question broad on purpose. I want to question whether they are good for the sport as a whole before I question whether they are good for individual classes. Jake Morgan Owner, PULLOFF.COM Independent Pulling News This page is a free service. The cost is covered out of my pocket. It takes a great deal of time and a fair amount of money to keep this website going. Donations for: photos, classified ads, forum discussion, etc... are appreciated. Side Note: We are no longer accepting PayPal donations. They have changed their terms of service and stated they would fine PayPal users for spreading "misinformation" and "hate, violence, racial or other forms of intolerance that is discriminatory". PayPal did not provide definitions for some of these vague terms. Woke corporate policies regarding "misinformation" could result in an automatic fine of $2,500 which would have been removed directly from the customer’s PayPal account. PayPal did backdown from some of their policies but quietly implemented portions of them in later terms of service. A financial institute has no right to monitor social media accounts or speech. This is unacceptable and I'll no longer do business with PayPal. |
|
Re: Screw blowers
|
Registered: 03/26/2008 Posts: 343 |
I have mixed feelings on this, Love to see them run, but deep down I feel they should be only in the Heavy Unlimited class. The Light Unlimited is a great class, and love to see the power of the Screw Blower Tractors. But with the cost of the Screws I feel are going to hurt the class. Yes, it is called unlimited, but it is perfect class to use to grow the mod classes, running 3 engines was taken away, the way I take it due to possibility of domination of the class. Over the next couple years if Screws are still in the class, they are in great spot to dominate the class. But I am not type to want to take them away after being purchased. But with possibility of only being 4 or 5 in the class for 2020, may be less in 2021. The cost is biggest issue with the over $50,000 for just the Screw blowers for 2 motors, most are not going to build with Screws due to that, and a lot won’t build for the Light Unlimited knowing they are going to need Screw Blowers to be competitive.
My personal opinion is if the class was limited to 14-71 blowers, and if necessary start calling it the Light Modified, if this was to happen you can use this class to draw some new blood up to the Mod class. Cost Comparison best guess scenario, 2 engine mod brand new with 14-71 approximately $300,000. With Screw Blowers be close to $340,000, ok, stop yes if you can afford $300,000 you should be able to handle the extra $40,000, but those prices kind of based off brand new. Not really basing any off of competition, if it’s legal and you choose not to go the Screw Blower route, that is your choice. I think they hamper the growth and the stability of the class, look at this promoters pay good money for the class, and with only 4 or 5 competing vehicles, they could possibly stop asking for it. Really feel if it is dropped down to 14-71 it would have better chance to grow. Eric Prewitt The Prewitt Pulling Team Public Relations for The Pulling Radio Network |
|
Re: Screw blowers
|
Registered: 08/25/2008 Posts: 31 |
They should not have banned triples in light unlimited Bauer’s built the perfect tractor for the class |
|
Re: Screw blowers
|
Ken
|
I agree, if it’s unlimited, there shouldn’t be any limits. |
|
Re: Screw blowers
|
Registered: 07/06/2008 Posts: 1,347 |
The counter argument is there were a few pulls in 2014 before they changed the rule where only 3 light unlimiteds showed up. Not that numbers are stellar now, but if they left it alone in 2015 it would bave been Bauer and Doc by themselves. Btw, I saw you ran at Chatham. Hope you are able to hit a few GN hooks next year. I never got to see you run with 4 engines in person. Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/07/2019 02:39AM by The Original Michael. |
|
Re: Screw blowers
|
Registered: 08/25/2008 Posts: 31 |
We should be out to a few grand national pulls next year |
|
Screw blowers and the health of the sport
|
Moderator Registered: 03/25/2008 Posts: 1,449 |
I've been thinking about screw blowers in pulling and the need for them. By allowing screw blowers the NTPA is going down the wrong road. The NTPA mod classes already are suffering low numbers and to add one more cost item makes no sense. When will the NTPA figure out the opening up the rules does nothing but drive away pullers. Just because the "high budget" teams feel a need to run screw blowers doesn't make it right for the rest of the class. And the term "Unlimited" is the most dishonest term in the sport today. If the Lt Unlimited mod class was truly unlimited then you should be allowed to run anything that makes weight, NO. And from a strictly show value point of view there is NO gain in screw blowers in any class. The track is still 320-350 feet ( who knows ) the sled will still go down the track at the same speed and the sled operator will just add a couple more weights and the fans won't see anything different from the years without screw blowers. Well the fan will see something different, fewer vehicles in the classes that allow screw blowers, that's what the fans will see. It's time for the leadership to start leading, I know a crazy concept, but lets try it just once. Let stop the "few" from driving the rule process for the "many". Dick Morgan www.PULLOFF.com Independent Pulling News |
|
Re: Screw blowers and the health of the sport
|
Registered: 07/06/2008 Posts: 1,347 |
To clarify- are you talking about the light unlimited class, or all classes? The heavy unlimited class has always been run what you can. |
|
Re: Screw blowers and the health of the sport
|
Fan
|
One of the pullers using screw blowers told me " I bought screw blowers to SAVE MONEY!" He then went down a list of reasons of how they SAVE money in the long run! One reason is they don't have to spend $400-$500 per year having them restripped, another is the amount of heat and stress on the crank and other internal parts is less with screws, yet another the blower belts cost about half of what the roots style belts cost ($160 a piece), also they save time on maintenance as they have little to none. Those are 4 I remember, I think there were a couple others. |
|
Re: Screw blowers and the health of the sport
|
Moderator Registered: 03/25/2008 Posts: 1,449 |
For added clarity on the topic of screw blowers, I don't see a need for them in any class that allows blowers. And I love the argument that less rules save cost. If that's the case PS should be way cheaper than Hot Farm. More HP is never cheaper to run! Dick Morgan www.PULLOFF.com Independent Pulling News Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 09/10/2019 03:28AM by Dick Morgan. |
|
Re: Screw blowers and the health of the sport
|
Me
|
I completely disagree it’s not the pullers fault you can’t afford screw blowers also light unlimited rules are locked for two more years anyway and you guys always talk about keyboard pullers on here Jake and Dick you are the definition of keyboard pullers |
|
Re: Screw blowers and the health of the sport
|
yuop
|
we all get to express opinions,mr "ME" |
|
Re: Screw blowers and the health of the sport
|
Moderator Registered: 03/25/2008 Posts: 1,449 |
I never talk about key board pullers, I always call them pulling fans. Are you implying that neither Jake or I are not untitled to our opinion? |
|
Re: Screw blowers and the health of the sport
|
Paull
|
Dick I thank you for this venue and forum,for sale and more pages. It is a very good source for information. |
|
Re: Screw blowers and the health of the sport
|
Registered: 03/25/2008 Posts: 2,526 |
One... I've never called anyone a keyboard puller. Not once. Ever. I think it's a childish and disrespectful term that elitist jerks use because they're insecure/jealous because a fan knows more about their sport than they do. I'm a fan and I have respect for other fans of the sport. Some of us fans choose not to pull, some can't afford to pull. That doesn't make my, and their, opinion any less valuable or valid. Great ideas or interesting opinions can come from all different areas of the sport. I'll be the first to tell you that I'm not the most knowledgeable guy in the sport, but I didn't just fall off the turnip truck either. Two... so what makes someone worthy of having an opinion vs. just a keyboard puller? Is it sitting in the seat? How many times? Is one pass enough or do you need a certain number to be allowed to share an opinion? Or is it that you've built something? There are tons of guys in this sport that never built a thing. There are guys that buy everything because they don't have the skills or the time. Are they allowed to have an opinion? How much do you need to build to have any credibility or an opinion? Is it owning a vehicle? There are plenty of guys who pull and run dads vehicle? Should they be allowed an opinion? Is it knowing the rules in your class? I know plenty of pullers that don't even know the rules in their own class, let alone the rules in other classes. Should they have an opinion? What if someone crew chief's for a team? Can they have an opinion? Is it the amount of time you've been involved in the sport? How long until you can have an opinion? Please share with us your version of the qualifications necessary to have an opinion? The great thing on this page is anyone can have an opinion about tractor pulling. Everyone is on equal footing here. That's right; fans, promoters, pullers, announcers, pullers spouses/kids, officials, etc... are all on equal footing when they're discussing this sport. Well, almost equal footing... I put much more credence in an opinion when someone has enough integrity to stand behind it. Jake Morgan Owner, PULLOFF.COM Independent Pulling News This page is a free service. The cost is covered out of my pocket. It takes a great deal of time and a fair amount of money to keep this website going. Donations for: photos, classified ads, forum discussion, etc... are appreciated. Side Note: We are no longer accepting PayPal donations. They have changed their terms of service and stated they would fine PayPal users for spreading "misinformation" and "hate, violence, racial or other forms of intolerance that is discriminatory". PayPal did not provide definitions for some of these vague terms. Woke corporate policies regarding "misinformation" could result in an automatic fine of $2,500 which would have been removed directly from the customer’s PayPal account. PayPal did backdown from some of their policies but quietly implemented portions of them in later terms of service. A financial institute has no right to monitor social media accounts or speech. This is unacceptable and I'll no longer do business with PayPal. |
|
Re: Screw blowers
|
Registered: 03/25/2008 Posts: 2,526 |
Maybe I’m wrong, but I think people are answering a different question than I’m asking. I’m not asking if they should be allowed in a class… rather are they good for the sport. Those are two similar questions but they are very, very, very different. For example Should you be allowed to drink as much alcohol as possible? Absolutely, to me that’s a freedom issue. Is it good for your to drink as much alcohol as possible? Definitely not.
So back to my original question about screw blowers: Are they good for this motorsport? They are currently allowed, in two classes but is it good that they are? If they are good for the sport, why are they only good for certain blower classes but not others? Shouldn’t they be good for all the blower classes? Personally I don't think they are good for the sport in any class with the current rule structure. They don’t add anything to show quality. By that I mean they don’t add anything to appearance, sound, engine diversity, etc… There’s no discernible difference to the fans. If every single puller in the blower classes had screw blowers there wouldn’t even be a discernible difference in power. The vehicles would still go just as fast down the track, we’d just have a slightly lighter sled. The show quality would be exactly the same (Zero-sum). What has the sport gained by allowing them? The only thing I see is that it’s actually made the show WORSE! There’s a growing disparity between the vehicles. It’s actually made things worse in the short term. I see no net gain by allowing them unless they offer considerable savings long-term, less maintenance long-term, r more reliability. If that's the case then how hard/fast they're driven should be very limited in the near term. If indeed they will save money. I don’t mean to pick on anyone, but people drag out the tired argument about the word "Unlimited"... all classes still have limits. If it was truly unlimited we'd allow nitromethane, nitrous oxide, etc... There are plenty of limits in the Unlimited classes; can you run radial engines? No. Isotov turbines? Nope. 4wd? No. 6wd? No way. The limits are there for various reasons, sometimes it's cost, sometimes it's safety, sometimes it's simply because the sport will be better for it. Unlimited is just a word that makes the classes sound "cool". It always amazes me how people get hung up on a name based more on marketing than reality. Does everyone think that all the guys running with the Outlaws are cheating or have been outlawed in other organizations? Nobody thinks that! So why does everyone get so hung-up when the word unlimited is added to a class? Does anyone actually believe that the Unlimited Super is truly unlimited? No. Neither should anyone believe the Unlimited Mod classes are truly unlimited. It's not run what you brung, no holds barred, if you can make weight then run it, etc... it NEVER has been that. This sport is so backwards and screwed up (pardon the pun) that the people in charge can’t seem to figure out that the sport needs to back the power down instead of opening it up more. Horsepower is like Meth to most pullers and if they let it go unchecked they’ll chase it until their teeth fall out, they go broke, and eventually it kills their class. The sanctioning bodies are supposed to be the police and keep the Meth (HP) incheck, instead they're a bunch of dealers that continue to feed the addicts more Meth even though they know it's killing them. Jake Morgan Owner, PULLOFF.COM Independent Pulling News This page is a free service. The cost is covered out of my pocket. It takes a great deal of time and a fair amount of money to keep this website going. Donations for: photos, classified ads, forum discussion, etc... are appreciated. Side Note: We are no longer accepting PayPal donations. They have changed their terms of service and stated they would fine PayPal users for spreading "misinformation" and "hate, violence, racial or other forms of intolerance that is discriminatory". PayPal did not provide definitions for some of these vague terms. Woke corporate policies regarding "misinformation" could result in an automatic fine of $2,500 which would have been removed directly from the customer’s PayPal account. PayPal did backdown from some of their policies but quietly implemented portions of them in later terms of service. A financial institute has no right to monitor social media accounts or speech. This is unacceptable and I'll no longer do business with PayPal. |
|
Re: Screw blowers
|
Registered: 04/04/2008 Posts: 631 |
Have you been reading my mind? I've made a lot of these same points in our mod meetings.
I had a conversation with a very important individual in the motorsports world recently and he made a very good point about pulling vs racing. The point was in racing you have a number to improve upon when you spend money on making more power whereas in pulling they just add weight to the sled and we spent a LOT of money to go the same 320' for the same prize money. Or as I've put it a time or two we are our own worst enemy! Not to mention that the class begins to separate in distance and actually becomes less competitive untill more people can afford to stepup to that level. P.S. People aren't as willing to make that step as much as they used to be. S'no Farmer |
|
Re: Screw blowers
|
Fan
|
As Mr.Veney says "We want to go faster every year not slower". That's what built the sport! I know it's an endless cycle but that's part of it. Now the Mitas tires have come out and to compete in the Unlimited class you need them! What's that, another $10,000-$12,000 a set? It seems most times when someone wants to limit a class, they want to limit it to what THEY currently run! The sport would still be in the 70's with that mentality. |
|
Who currently runs them?
|
Registered: 07/06/2008 Posts: 1,347 |
As far as I'm aware, Benedict, Richardson, and Boyd (only at 2 pulls a year). Light un- Corzine x 2. Not sure about Theobold.
Does anyone else currently run them? |
|
Re: Who currently runs them?
|
Registered: 12/12/2013 Posts: 9 |
I believe Ashley's tractor has 18-71 , but Theobold does run screws. |
|
Re: Who currently runs them?
|
Posts: 1,163 |
They switched Ashley's tractor to screw blowers at BG I believe. Brent Yaron Hooked Up Pulling Productions hookeduppullingproductions@gmail.com |
|
Re: Who currently runs them?
|
Registered: 11/20/2018 Posts: 20 |
Ashley ran the 18’s up until Salem then switched to the screws after that. Theobolds run screws as well. |
|
Re: Screw blowers
|
Registered: 04/04/2008 Posts: 631 |
That's all well and good but read my last sentence, it is becoming more and more true every year.
Ask Ken how he feels about making changes to gain HP in pulling vs racing you might be surprised by his answer. Think time slip vs the sled just adding another block of weight. In one case you have tangible evidence that you did better. In pulling they just heavy up the sled and it has cost you a lot of money to go out to 320'...the same place you were going before. S'no Farmer |
|
Is the NTPA rule making flawed
|
Moderator Registered: 03/25/2008 Posts: 1,449 |
I have talked to a few NTPA pullers that tell me that they got a letter that was saying that they are considering making all the tracks 350 feet because the sleds are having a problem stopping the Unlimited Mods. In order to give the fans a good show they need let the Unlimited Mods get up and start running and in order to be able to stop them safely they now need 350 foot tracks. And yet the NTPA is does not see that the screw blowers will give the Unlimited Mods even more power. Remind me, am I the only one that sees this is very flawed logic? We have to lengthen the track because we can't stop them now however we want to give them more power because who knows why. Seems like we have some bipolar rules being written, just makes me wonder! Dick Morgan www.PULLOFF.com Independent Pulling News |
|
Re: Is the NTPA rule making flawed
|
Registered: 04/04/2008 Posts: 1,523 |
I'm calling bs.drop pan at 100 ft,run box up faster problem solved |
|
Re: Is the NTPA rule making flawed
|
Registered: 02/18/2018 Posts: 244 |
At NTPA Session 1 at Stark County (Canton), the pan was dropping at 120ft for GN Pro Stocks |
|
Re: Is the NTPA rule making flawed
|
Registered: 04/04/2008 Posts: 631 |
Patches,
Part of the issue is that in order to stop the Heavy Unlimited tractors they have to make the sled so heavy that they put a poor show. It doesn't look good when the most prestigious class in pulling is slower than the rest of the classes. The improvements in power and even more significantly tires makes these tractors much harder to stop in a reasonable distance. The last time this happened they reduced the weight of the mod tractors...no more 12,0000 lb,no more 9000 lb. S'no Farmer |
|
Re: Screw blowers
|
More weight
|
Hasn't the point of tractor pulling always been who can pull the most weight the farthest. |
|
Re: Screw blowers
|
plum krazy
|
open ended no point of return,more power,- more speed, more weight same distance. |
|
Re: Screw blowers
|
Same distance
|
Just like drag racing, same distance every time.
Drag racing is how fast you get there, tractor pulling is how much weight you take with you. |
|
Re: Screw blowers
|
Registered: 04/04/2008 Posts: 631 |
Same distance,
Tell me...how much weight was in the sled at the last pull you attended? Doubt that anyone but the sled operator knows so it's a moot point. Unlike a time slip. S'no Farmer |
|
Re: Screw blowers
|
Registered: 03/25/2008 Posts: 2,526 |
Yes, within the confines of rules that make sense. It's not simply about pulling the most weight or we'd have 50,000 lb classes (or unlimited weight and power classes and we don't have either of those things). We have rules in place to keep the sport within certain limits. Meth addicts always want more meth and higher limits to get their fix. Pullers always want more power to get their fix. They need limits. The limits are there to protect them and to protect the class. The sport gains nothing by allowing them. If screw blowers are better for the sport why not allow them in 2wd? Why not allow them in the minis? If they'er better/cheaper/etc... why limit them to only two classes? Anyone? Anyone? Jake Morgan Owner, PULLOFF.COM Independent Pulling News This page is a free service. The cost is covered out of my pocket. It takes a great deal of time and a fair amount of money to keep this website going. Donations for: photos, classified ads, forum discussion, etc... are appreciated. Side Note: We are no longer accepting PayPal donations. They have changed their terms of service and stated they would fine PayPal users for spreading "misinformation" and "hate, violence, racial or other forms of intolerance that is discriminatory". PayPal did not provide definitions for some of these vague terms. Woke corporate policies regarding "misinformation" could result in an automatic fine of $2,500 which would have been removed directly from the customer’s PayPal account. PayPal did backdown from some of their policies but quietly implemented portions of them in later terms of service. A financial institute has no right to monitor social media accounts or speech. This is unacceptable and I'll no longer do business with PayPal. |
|
Re: Screw blowers
|
Fan
|
They don't allow 18-71's in those classes either, so what's your point? Don't hear you trying to ban those! |
|
Re: Screw blowers
|
Registered: 06/16/2017 Posts: 90 |
Lots of emotion in this thread but not a lot of data. Like a Roots type blower there are different sizes of screw blowers and their output can be affected by their drive speed. Therefore screw blowers COULD be good for the sport if they truly do offer maintenance advantages and there is a way to offset their efficiency advantage by limiting the size; overdrive; etc. so that the expected power level is approximately the same as the roots type. |
|
Re: Screw blowers
|
Registered: 03/25/2008 Posts: 2,526 |
Scott,
I don't think they're good for the sport right now as the rest of the rules stand. I think the sport should be backing power and cost down in all classes not increasing it. If you take a look at all motorsports from F1 to NHRA and you'll see that they are continuing to try to back things down every year. As my father mentioned, there's already talk of extending the track because of the power gains and there's talk of running full boxes in the sled at some events. It's time to figure out how to either redesign the sleds or limit the power output to stay within a reasonable margin of error for putting on a good show. I think the best solution is to talk about backing things down in most (or all) classes in one way or another. Otherwise, I totally agree. If they are cheaper long-term, or less maintenance, or more reliable, etc... and offer some real positives then I'm fine with them. as long as they limit them to a point where they won't cause a huge separation of power in a given class. Right now in the two Mod classes they are making the show worse, not better. If they can find a way to incorporate them on a fairly even footing with the current roots setups then I wouldn't see any problem with continuing to allow them. That again begs the question of why not allow them in 2wd and Mini then? If they do offer some positives why ban them there? Why not allow them there too and just restrict them to a point where they are on par with a roots? Jake Morgan Owner, PULLOFF.COM Independent Pulling News This page is a free service. The cost is covered out of my pocket. It takes a great deal of time and a fair amount of money to keep this website going. Donations for: photos, classified ads, forum discussion, etc... are appreciated. Side Note: We are no longer accepting PayPal donations. They have changed their terms of service and stated they would fine PayPal users for spreading "misinformation" and "hate, violence, racial or other forms of intolerance that is discriminatory". PayPal did not provide definitions for some of these vague terms. Woke corporate policies regarding "misinformation" could result in an automatic fine of $2,500 which would have been removed directly from the customer’s PayPal account. PayPal did backdown from some of their policies but quietly implemented portions of them in later terms of service. A financial institute has no right to monitor social media accounts or speech. This is unacceptable and I'll no longer do business with PayPal. |
|
Re: Screw blowers
|
Fan
|
How are Screw blowers making the Unlimited class worse? |
|
Re: Screw blowers
|
Registered: 04/04/2008 Posts: 631 |
More weight,
So true but in the scheme of things who knows how much weight is in a sled? Most pullers don't even know let alone the fans. S'no Farmer |
|
Re: Screw blowers
|
Moderator Registered: 03/25/2008 Posts: 1,449 |
In how many ways, how many times can the same point be made. There is NO, NADA, gain in more HP that will add to the show quality. It only drives the cost up and number of vehicles down. And if the fans knew that today they are pulling 50,000 lbs and last week it 48,000 lbs who care, it all looks the same from the stands. So let's go down that road just a little farther to see what happens. Dick Morgan www.PULLOFF.com Independent Pulling News |
|
Re: Screw blowers
|
I’m going back to my posts in the past on this subject, the light unlimited was going to be a starter class but it’s turned into a money pit! 18-71 are a blower that has very limited resale. No other sport uses them,Period! The screw blower requires less maintenance but let’s see what happens when a driveline breaks and a motor overrevs and the screw blower explodes from over speed! The post above by Eric prewitt is what i have said from the beginning,2 hemis with 14-71 3 chevys with 8-71 at 6500 lbs . Do this and the class will grow in numbers of tractors and events! Just saying! Stan Williams |
|
Re: Screw blowers
|
Fan
|
So the teams that have spent the money on screws and 18's are just supposed to eat those costs, go back and repurchase 14's and 8's so the teams that don't want to step up can play? Sounds like the same thing they did to Adam Bauer! |
|
Re: Screw blowers
|
Let the Unlimited class alone...hands down the best class in pulling IMO. Watch the crowd leave when Unlimiteds finish and something else is running on the "other" track. If limits were the answer, the limited RN mod classes would be full of new machines and large numbers, but that is not the case. Some of the RN mods are running 20 year old junk that I won't walk across the street to watch. I'll drive hours to watch the Unlimited mods. Unlimited class at BG this year was one of the best I've seen in a decade! |
|
Re: Screw blowers
|
Moderator Registered: 03/25/2008 Posts: 1,449 |
That one of the problems with the sport. Everyone bases all their opinions on the show at Bowling Green, that is a "one of a kind" shows. In reality there were only 3 Unlimited Mods that followed the entire circuit. Dick Morgan www.PULLOFF.com Independent Pulling News Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/12/2019 02:02AM by Dick Morgan. |
|
Re: Screw blowers
|
There were only 7 mini's, 5 mod's, 3 semi's, 6 LSS, and 5 SSO's (which were further limited this year!) that followed the entire GN circuit, and they all have more limits than the 'Unlimiteds", so your reasoning doesn't hold. GN has never been cheap and never will be no matter how many limits are put on. If limits are so great, why are the RN numbers so weak? |
|
Re: Screw blowers
|
Moderator Registered: 03/25/2008 Posts: 1,449 |
Ground pounder. Thank you for proving my point. All those classes do suffer from low numbers and while you're at it add the DSS in the mix. But let me ask you are there more SF than DSS. More Lt. PS than PS, more LLSS than LSS, on and on. Dick Morgan www.PULLOFF.com Independent Pulling News Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/12/2019 03:10AM by Dick Morgan. |
|
Re: Screw blowers
|
Come on Dick. You haven't explained why the RN Mods don't have better numbers & quality of vehicles than they do, IF limits work. There are plenty of places to run where they have limits. Try having a GN show with LLSS, Lt. PS, and SF and see how many fans show up. We fans are not stupid. I won't be there and I doubt you would drive very far for that show either. I'll watch those classes only if I'm waiting to watch the Unlimiteds or DSS, like at Ft.Recovery! |
|
Re: Screw blowers
|
Moderator Registered: 03/25/2008 Posts: 1,449 |
GP, I will guarantee you that if the Unlimited Mods were backed down 3,000 HP you would not even know it because they would just set the sled to still go 320'. When the Unlimiteds were 8,000 HP they went 320 feet, when they were 9,000 they went 320 feet and when they 10,000 HP they went 320 feet. And the reason there are so few regional mods is still the same reason, cost. Dick Morgan www.PULLOFF.com Independent Pulling News Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/12/2019 06:55AM by Dick Morgan. |
|
Re: Screw blowers
|
Fan
|
Which Unlimited pullers want to give up 3,000 hp? I don't know of any. |
|
Re: Screw blowers
|
Registered: 03/25/2008 Posts: 2,526 |
No pullers ever want to give up power in any class; they're addicts. It isn't about which pullers want to give up horsepower, it's about what's best for the sport in the long-term. Limiting power is a better long-term approach to keep the classes sustainable. Jake Morgan Owner, PULLOFF.COM Independent Pulling News This page is a free service. The cost is covered out of my pocket. It takes a great deal of time and a fair amount of money to keep this website going. Donations for: photos, classified ads, forum discussion, etc... are appreciated. Side Note: We are no longer accepting PayPal donations. They have changed their terms of service and stated they would fine PayPal users for spreading "misinformation" and "hate, violence, racial or other forms of intolerance that is discriminatory". PayPal did not provide definitions for some of these vague terms. Woke corporate policies regarding "misinformation" could result in an automatic fine of $2,500 which would have been removed directly from the customer’s PayPal account. PayPal did backdown from some of their policies but quietly implemented portions of them in later terms of service. A financial institute has no right to monitor social media accounts or speech. This is unacceptable and I'll no longer do business with PayPal. |
|
Re: Screw blowers
|
Registered: 04/04/2008 Posts: 631 |
Groundpounder,
I would agree the class was great at BG but my question to you is this, is it sustainable at this level? Can the owners keep up with the maintenance and can the sleds keep up and stop them? I'm going to go out on a limb here and ask this question. Would anyone have know the difference if the points winner had been running 14-71 blowers rather than 18-71 without being told? S'no Farmer |
|
Re: Screw blowers
|
Registered: 04/04/2008 Posts: 631 |
Fan,
FIY that is one of the main reasons the mod committee voted to not recommend a rule change last year and wanted the rules locked for 3 years. As unreasonable as you seem to think we are even I voted that way and I think the class would be better without the big blowers. I didn't feel it was right to punish the people who had stepped up to the the big blowers within the rules. Do I think it is deep down the best for the class...no and I think next year will show that with low numbers in the class. The Simon's have already let people know that next year they will not compete in the class. They were more than willing to go back to 14-71 blower last year. S'no Farmer |
|
Re: Screw blowers
|
Fan
|
Todd,
My comments are about the blowers in general not just in the Light Unlimited. I would submit the biggest difference in the Unlimited class this year had nothing to do with the blowers but the new Mitas tires. I know some others in the class will have them next year and we'll see how it goes from there. |
|
Re: Screw blowers
|
Registered: 04/04/2008 Posts: 631 |
Fan,
I do agree that those tires are making a big difference unfortunately everyone in the big mod classes are going to need them...just another $10,000 plus to add to the cost of running a mod tractor. Not to mention making it even harder to stop the Heavy Unlimited tractors...in effect slowing them down because that's the only way to stop them, make the boat heavier from the start. They could let them go farther down the track but then you would have the people that don't like long tracks upset and in some cases the tracks just aren't long enough. Bill Vories has said for years that the puller 2000 tires were the worst thing to happen to the Unlimited class. He says that it made pullers spend way more money as it was hard on driveline parts and basically they had to rebuild their tractors to handle the new found traction. Even the PPL tractors were breaking rearends on a regular bases even before the Mitas tires came along. Now in order to keep a ring and pinion in these tractors most have gone to power lubrication, just another little cost of competing. I'm getting tired just discussing these things...might be time to retire. Last year after the mod meetings at the Enderle I think I slept about 2 hours just worrying about how the meeting went. I wish I didn't love pulling so much as well as the people involved, it would make parking my tractors easier. OK off the soap box rant over! S'no Farmer |
|
Re: Screw blowers
|
xxx3ctw9
|
seems like people arguing over politics and religon,no right answer,but many crab about any subject for no real reasons,right or wrong opinions will always differ.Just like hockey and MMA,people want to see karnage and blood,listen to the crowd roar when someone breaks,-- kinda like the Roman's with letti'n out the Lions.A good show doesn't have to be faster,bigger,-- better,we have our priorities mixed up here.I have left pulls where all pulling units looked the same,sounded similar,had speed,"tires"dirt flinging and all went 320' let the sled stop some short,let the best ones go farther,most in the stands can't tell blue from gold when it comes to engine size,power or class,no clear answers for most of life,-- let alone decisions that effect few. |
Website Statistics
Global: Topics: 38,723, Posts: 229,851, Members: 3,330.
This forum: Topics: 37,083, Posts: 225,976.
Global: Topics: 38,723, Posts: 229,851, Members: 3,330.
This forum: Topics: 37,083, Posts: 225,976.
Our newest member LT Limited Pro
