Welcome to the NTPA LLSS (and some other fun stuff) October 01, 2020 05:15AM
Stolen from NTPA Tech Services FB Page:

Attn NTPA competitors:

The Following items were considered and approved by the WPI / NTPA Exe Boards for 2021 season.

1. Heavy Super Stock Diesel GN/SN are limited to a maximum 540 cu.in. for all turbocharger configurations

2. Open Super Stock – the following rules have been added to current rules.
a. Maximum 650 cu. In.
b. Inline or V configuration engines only
c. OEM block or aftermarket replica must be from an agricultural machine application
d. Engine brand not required to match brand of sheet metal used

3. Light Limited Super Stock – was adopted as a NTPA sanctioned class for regional national competition.

Light Limited Super Stock Rules:

All OEM chassis Pro Stock rules, including shielding, safety and SFI requirements, apply to this class plus the following rules.

Weight
1.Tractor weight will be 6250lbs.
Engine
1 Engine must match brand of tractor. Engine crankcase, block, and cylinder head must be of same manufacturer or factory replacement and can be used in any agricultural transmission and rear end that used that brand of engine or through its company mergers used that brand of engine.
2. Must be OEM engine block, no Billet steel or aluminum blocks.
3. Rear of engine must be in stock location for make and model of rear end and transmission housing, with a maximum tolerance of a 1” adapter plate.
4. No V-8 Engines permitted.
5. No Overhead cams allowed.
6. Maximum allowed “P” pump. Only one plunger per cylinder allowed.7. No electronically controlled fuel system allowed.
8. No secondary source of fuel (liquid or gas) or oxygen enhancer allowed.
9. Water injection allowed
10. Computer can only be used for data acquisition, may not be able to control engine timing, or fuel delivery. No traction control.
11. Maximum of 315 cubic inches for twin turbo charged diesel engines with Intercoolers. (Turbo(s) must be staged) o This engine combination can run a maximum of two (2) 3X4 smooth bore turbo(s). No MAF enhancement.
12. Maximum of 360 cubic inches for twin turbo charged diesel engines and no intercooler or after cooler allowed. (Turbo(s) must be staged) o This engine combination can run a maximum of two (2) 3X4 smooth bore turbo(s). No MAF enhancement.
13. Maximum of 410 cubic inches for single turbo charged diesel engines. Intercoolers allowed. This engine combination can run a maximum of one (1) 3X4 turbo with MAF enhancement. o 0.200 MAF enhancements o No forward facing MAF.
14. Maximum of 470 cubic inches for single turbo charged diesel
engines. No intercoolers allowed. (The 478CI Hercules engine will be legal to run in its factory combination 0% variance on CID) o This engine combination can run a maximum of one (1) 3.4X4 smooth bore turbo.
15.Alcohol Engine maximum of 370 cubic inches for single turbo charged alcohol engines. No intercoolers allowed. This engine combination can run a maximum of one (1) smooth bore 3X4 Turbo

Turbo Restrictions
16. Diesel engines that will be allowed to run a 3.4X4 smooth bore turbo, the compressor wheel must protrude into the housing 1/8th of an inch and the compressor wheel must measure no larger then 3.400” at the face of the wheel.
17. No superchargers allowed.
Cylinder Heads
1. Cast iron OEM cylinder head for that brand and model engine. No billet or re-cast cylinder heads allowed.
2. Maximum of 2 valves per cylinder. Valves must maintain the factory angle, lateral movement of valves only. Valves must seat in the bottom of the OEM head on all 6cylinder engines.
3. One spark plug per cylinder ONLY.
4. Maximum of one (1) deck plate will be permitted between the top of the block and the bottom of the cylinder head, with a maximum thickness of 1 1/8th inch.

Chassis
1. Maximum length 13 feet measured from center of rear axle to forward most point, excluding tow hook. Maximum wheelbase 114”.
2. No type of front end suspension allowed, swivel axle front ends will be accepted.
3.All housings must stay in place, bolted ridged in all other chassis.
4. Auxiliary transmission will be permitted.
Tires:
Maximum tire size 30.5 X 32 , Minimum tire size 24.5 X 32

General Rules: (these apply to all divisions)

1. Safety – Turbochargers – all divisions
a. Intake Compressor Wheels – no turbocharger compressor wheel(s) may be visible through hood or side shield on either side of vehicle. Any visible inlet compressor opening must face forward

b. Exhaust Turbine Outlet – 2 bolts, minimum ½” diameter, grade 5 only, must be installed in a cross pattern as close to turbine exhaust wheel as possible.

c. Turbocharger Containment
Note: This rule only applies to turbocharger(s) with larger than 3 inch diameter inlet
1. Diesel Engines:
Any single turbocharger or top turbocharger(s) on a multi turbo setup must have a Kevlar lined containment device (bag or blanket) that completely encloses the intake compressor housing. Bag or blanket used must be commercially available from a NTPA approved manufacturer.
Note: containment device cannot be homemade.

2. Alcohol Engines:
Any single turbo or the top turbocharger(s) on a multi turbo setup must have a minimum of 1/8” cable wrapped around turbo. Cable must be wrapped at least two revolutions capturing both turbocharger housings. Cable must be clamped by a minimum of two clamps at splice or metal collars around intake housing with attaching 1/8” cables to exhaust housing. Turbocharger containment device (bag or blanket) is an acceptable option in place of cable if applied as required under diesel engine turbo blanket or bag rules.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 10/01/2020 11:35PM by mh49.

Re: Welcome to the NTPA LLSS (and some other fun stuff) October 01, 2020 05:29AM
I applaud the NTPA for recognizing the class. Who's LLSS rules do the NTPA's follow. What state/club tractors will fit the best?



Dick Morgan

www.PULLOFF.com
Independent Pulling News



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/01/2020 05:31AM by Dick Morgan.

Re: Welcome to the NTPA LLSS (and some other fun stuff) October 01, 2020 05:43AM
Glad to see a detailed set of rules. My guess any state or club tractors should fit these rules .

Does this mean 903s are allowed in Open Supers again? October 01, 2020 05:51AM
Does this mean 903s are allowed in Open Supers again?

Re: Does this mean 903s are allowed in Open Supers again? October 01, 2020 06:47AM
They never said that they removed the no engine from a four wheel drive tractor rule so it's unclear if the 903 will be allowed or not.



Brent Yaron
Hooked Up Pulling Productions
http://hookeduppullingproductions.com
hookeduppullingproductions@gmail.com

Re: Welcome to the NTPA LLSS (and some other fun stuff) October 01, 2020 01:53PM
No front suspension takes some Wisconsin tractors out.

Re: Welcome to the NTPA LLSS (and some other fun stuff) October 05, 2020 04:18AM
Quote
New puller
No front suspension takes some Wisconsin tractors out.

You can thank Kentucky for that. They didn't even want front axles to have a pivot pin.

Re: Welcome to the NTPA LLSS (and some other fun stuff) October 05, 2020 07:10AM
Since when has Kentucky had any influence on ANY NATIONAL ORGANIZATION , -- " NEVER " , if Kentucky had that kind of influence it would have been 6000lbs !!!!! So don't blame Kentucky for the no air ride suspension !!!! Some would like to have it in Kentucky !!!!

Re: Welcome to the NTPA LLSS (and some other fun stuff) October 05, 2020 08:22AM
Quote
?
Since when has Kentucky had any influence on ANY NATIONAL ORGANIZATION , -- " NEVER " , if Kentucky had that kind of influence it would have been 6000lbs !!!!! So don't blame Kentucky for the no air ride suspension !!!! Some would like to have it in Kentucky !!!!

When the rules that the national org. uses are a direct copy of the rules that Ohio, Ky, and Wny got together and worked on, that's when.


Try and keep up.

Re: Welcome to the NTPA LLSS (and some other fun stuff) October 05, 2020 11:51AM
Have you lost your mind, Ky has NEVER had the weight at 6250lbs, so how is it a carbon copy? You need to keep up !!!

Re: Welcome to the NTPA LLSS (and some other fun stuff) October 05, 2020 11:58PM
Quote
?
Have you lost your mind, Ky has NEVER had the weight at 6250lbs, so how is it a carbon copy? You need to keep up !!!

Weird. I'm pretty sure I said "rules that Ohio, Wny, and KY worked on together". Not 100% Kentucky rules. Everyone compromised some.

Re: Welcome to the NTPA LLSS (and some other fun stuff) October 06, 2020 04:14AM
Then why did you single out Kentucky, you said quote " you can thank Kentucky for that " unquote --- you didn't say ohio, wny and Ky, their was one person that spoke for Ky when the National Rules were originally talked about that should of kept his mouth shut, he took it upon himself to speak for Ky and was appointed or authorized to speak for everyone !!!

Re: Welcome to the NTPA LLSS (and some other fun stuff) October 06, 2020 04:17AM
Meant to say wasn't authorized or appointed !!!

Re: Welcome to the NTPA LLSS (and some other fun stuff) October 06, 2020 09:34AM
Because Kentucky wanted welded solid axles. Ohio and Wny wanted suspension. The compromise was pivot axles.
Same idea with weight.

The rules meeting was far from top secret, I guess more of you guys should have got in on it. From what it sounds like, you have yourselves to blame for no front suspension.

Re: Welcome to the NTPA LLSS (and some other fun stuff) October 06, 2020 10:20AM
Just to make myself clear --- i am all for suspension front ends" would love to have an air ride front, im tired of fixing the front-end " all i was originally getting at was you singled out Ky, and to be honest me and several more would like it but we get told no by the majority, and to be honest the rules meeting was kept pretty quite around here on exactly when it was. One guy spoke for all of us without consulting any of us, an then it was a done deal.Didnt mean to argue with you on this matter, but not all of us wanting pivotal front ends, some of us wanted suspension fronts.

Re: Welcome to the NTPA LLSS (and some other fun stuff) October 06, 2020 10:25AM
I was planning on going leaf spring. I realize it’s kind of crude almost, but it’s stupidly simple and effective.

Re: Welcome to the NTPA LLSS (and some other fun stuff) October 06, 2020 11:46AM
They just threw one of there members under the bus with this suspension rule. The guys have been pulling with WTPA in wisconsin for a few years now with air bag suspension and won points. So if NTPA decided to have this class at Tomah , they couldn't pull in there own back yard



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/06/2020 11:48AM by David Runkle(earls dream).

Re: Welcome to the NTPA LLSS (and some other fun stuff) October 06, 2020 12:15PM
Quote
David Runkle(earls dream)
They just threw one of there members under the bus with this suspension rule. The guys have been pulling with WTPA in wisconsin for a few years now with air bag suspension and won points. So if NTPA decided to have this class at Tomah , they couldn't pull in there own back yard

If you can’t have front suspension can’t you just remove the air bags/shocks and lock it solid and be fine?



[www.ulmerpulling.com]

[www.ulmerracing.com]

Re: Welcome to the NTPA LLSS (and some other fun stuff) October 06, 2020 12:18PM
Before Badger State allowed them in our class ,that's what we wanted them to do . At that time they didn't want too. So I guess if they want to pull with them , that's what they'll have to do

Re: Welcome to the NTPA LLSS (and some other fun stuff) October 06, 2020 12:49PM
I believe you guys should have time to change a rule or two if you wanted ..But it should be simple for those guys to fabricate something to bolt to there front end to make them solid for a few pulls and un pin them for others .Air bag suspension was not wanted to prevent cheating by raising or lowering the hitch hieght with the press of a button .The big problem will be the large Turbo on the diesels dont get me wrong I pull Lawn mowers now but love to say that i told you so especially since around three people got this passed for everyone NOW trump thinks hes going to have a crooked election LOL

Re: Welcome to the NTPA LLSS (and some other fun stuff) October 06, 2020 02:31PM
Lewis, you need to just worry about lawn mower pulling. Nobody cares what you think or said

Re: Welcome to the NTPA LLSS (and some other fun stuff) October 07, 2020 08:35AM
Sounds like you have one of those 3.4 TURBOS THAT MAY GET SNATCHED IF THE POT GETS STIRRED

Re: Welcome to the NTPA LLSS (and some other fun stuff) October 06, 2020 01:12PM
Was just informed today the rules are under revision with WTPA's recommendations being taken into consideration.



Brent Yaron
Hooked Up Pulling Productions
http://hookeduppullingproductions.com
hookeduppullingproductions@gmail.com

Re: Welcome to the NTPA LLSS (and some other fun stuff) October 06, 2020 11:54PM
The whole hitch height/airbag thing has been beat to death and is a piss poor argument at best. There’s multiple ways to make sure that it doesn’t change hitch height.

Re: Welcome to the NTPA LLSS (and some other fun stuff) October 04, 2020 09:15AM
Congrats to NTPA they went the right direction can’t wait to see this awesome class out at some of the pulls next summer it’s one of the best classes in pulling by far!!! Now onto the NFMS adding the class on Wednesday night would be the coolest deal ever!

Re: Welcome to the NTPA LLSS (and some other fun stuff) October 01, 2020 06:44AM
The rules are based off of WTPA and HSTPA. The only different rules between the two clubs are that HSTPA allows the 3.4x4 smooth bore turbo. I know members of the WTPA representing the class was pushing not to allow it, but they decided to go ahead with it. I love to see this class at the regional level and think it's going to be a very popular class for them.



Brent Yaron
Hooked Up Pulling Productions
http://hookeduppullingproductions.com
hookeduppullingproductions@gmail.com

Re: Welcome to the NTPA LLSS (and some other fun stuff) October 07, 2020 03:42AM
MSTPA rules are slightly different

Re: Welcome to the NTPA LLSS (and some other fun stuff) October 01, 2020 06:45AM
I find it interesting that they made all Diesel Supers run at 540 cubic inches for all turbocharger configurations.



Brent Yaron
Hooked Up Pulling Productions
http://hookeduppullingproductions.com
hookeduppullingproductions@gmail.com

Re: Welcome to the NTPA LLSS (and some other fun stuff) October 01, 2020 06:59AM
How come a 410 can’t run a 3.4”?

Re: Welcome to the NTPA LLSS (and some other fun stuff) October 01, 2020 07:40AM
I often wondered the same thing. Why can't all diesels in the LLSS class run 3.4 charger?

Re: Welcome to the NTPA LLSS (and some other fun stuff) October 01, 2020 09:42AM
Prolly because if your 410 you have an InterCooler on take it off an pop a 3.4 on an your good to go

Re: Welcome to the NTPA LLSS (and some other fun stuff) October 04, 2020 02:25PM
Quote
David Runkle(earls dream)
I often wondered the same thing. Why can't all diesels in the LLSS class run 3.4 charger?


Take it up and ask NTPA

Re: Welcome to the NTPA LLSS (and some other fun stuff) October 05, 2020 09:37AM
I have talked with David Beahr when he was on the WTPA board and rep for the LLSS . He went to Indiana and discussed these rules . And didn't like the 3.4 charger rule. But others got it passed. I think your talking to a dead horse on the 3.4 rule . Because they think a 410 on 3 by 4 charger with map ring an cooler make the same hp. Because of the 2020 season I really didn't see anything , because the WTPA cancelled all the pulls , so I didn't get a chance to see results or go pull with them



David Runkle class rep for Badger State LLSS class. 815-821-4686

Re: Welcome to the NTPA LLSS (and some other fun stuff) October 01, 2020 07:05AM
Are there currently any diesel supers larger than 540? Boxler and Smoke and Mirrors were at one point I believe? Kind of guessed Ross was as well, guess not.

Re: Welcome to the NTPA LLSS (and some other fun stuff) October 01, 2020 01:12PM
Quote
LSS Fan
Are there currently any diesel supers larger than 540? Boxler and Smoke and Mirrors were at one point I believe? Kind of guessed Ross was as well, guess not.

So a cooler will offset .4” of inlet area and 60 cubic inches?

Re: Welcome to the NTPA LLSS (and some other fun stuff) October 02, 2020 04:13AM
AAR - .4 but also they get a map ring and a cooler.

By that logic why do they need the .4 to beat Alcohol tractors when they already have 100 cubic inches.
.

Re: Welcome to the NTPA LLSS (and some other fun stuff) October 02, 2020 05:52AM
In short it reduces torque

Re: Welcome to the NTPA LLSS (and some other fun stuff) October 02, 2020 06:07AM
Fred Hildenbrad and Stanley Auen both have Big block Deeres with Over head cams that are Diesel Supers. Both in Western PA. Up until this rule I believe the only place they could run was the GN circuit.

Re: Welcome to the NTPA LLSS (and some other fun stuff) October 03, 2020 09:16PM
They pull in Pro Stock .I don’t think any of these rules apply to them

Re: Welcome to the NTPA LLSS (and some other fun stuff) October 01, 2020 07:17AM
OEM block or aftermarket replica must be from an agricultural machine application

this rule change is completely clear by being unclear as long as the engine does not exceed 650ci go for it and somewhere some manufacturer used a big block chevy for a irrigation pump it would seem this opens it up to billet blocks that can spin a BBC crank which may not be cheap but have to be less expensive than the work it takes to build anything else with some off the shelf stuff available

Re: Text message October 01, 2020 07:22AM
Quote
Read between the lines
OEM block or aftermarket replica must be from an agricultural machine application

this rule change is completely clear by being unclear as long as the engine does not exceed 650ci go for it and somewhere some manufacturer used a big block chevy for a irrigation pump it would seem this opens it up to billet blocks that can spin a BBC crank which may not be cheap but have to be less expensive than the work it takes to build anything else with some off the shelf stuff available

Hypothetical text message from Larry Richwine to Mike Chizek: "We good now?" Smiling



This may sound like a silly question, but is it defined anywhere what the word "agricultural" or "agricultural machine" means? If not, there could be some creative differences of opinion in what that actually means. What it means to YOU may not be what it means to somebody else. There is a reason your insurance policies have a whole section for glossary and definitions of what seem like common words.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 10/01/2020 07:29AM by The Original Michael.

Re: Text message October 01, 2020 07:49AM
Michael re read what I said by being vague the rule opens things up. you are making it more difficult than you need to

unless the NTPA decides to clean up the language of the rule the engine combinations are wide open

all that a puller would have to produce is some form of documentation where a oem built a irrigation pump, chopper, harvester, you name it with a particular engine combination to power the machine as long as the aftermarket block can swing that oem machine crank it is fair game

read rules for what they say and more importantly what they dont say

Re: Text message October 01, 2020 08:08AM
Quote
Read between the lines
Michael re read what I said by being vague the rule opens things up. you are making it more difficult than you need to

unless the NTPA decides to clean up the language of the rule the engine combinations are wide open

all that a puller would have to produce is some form of documentation where a oem built a irrigation pump, chopper, harvester, you name it with a particular engine combination to power the machine as long as the aftermarket block can swing that oem machine crank it is fair game

read rules for what they say and more importantly what they dont say

Read between the lines - I agree with you.
I typed YOU in capital letters, but in my head I wasn't thinking of you personally. I was thinking more generally what a word means to one person is not what necessarily it means to somebody else.

Apologies for the vague wording, or clear wording with a vague meaning (just like the NTPA rule wording. They must've inspired me).

Re: Text message October 02, 2020 02:13AM
Time to take a V12 Claas and hurt some feelings. V configuration in an agriculture machine.

Re: Welcome to the NTPA LLSS (and some other fun stuff) October 01, 2020 09:47AM
For "clarification" purposes what's your guys thoughts on how to or where to measure the 3.4 smooth bore turbo? Apparently in KY you can run a 3.4 wheel. Just to clarify

Re: Welcome to the NTPA LLSS (and some other fun stuff) October 01, 2020 10:11AM
Quote
Has been
For "clarification" purposes what's your guys thoughts on how to or where to measure the 3.4 smooth bore turbo? Apparently in KY you can run a 3.4 wheel. Just to clarify
“ the compressor wheel must protrude into the housing 1/8th of an inch and the compressor wheel must measure no larger then 3.400” at the face of the wheel. “
According to wording, yes wheel measures 3.4 maximum diameter.

Re: Welcome to the NTPA LLSS (and some other fun stuff) October 01, 2020 10:57AM
So the alcohol tractors the housing bore will be measured because the rule doesn't say wheel. Correct?

Re: Welcome to the NTPA LLSS (and some other fun stuff) October 01, 2020 12:43PM
Quote
Has been
So the alcohol tractors the housing bore will be measured because the rule doesn't say wheel. Correct?

That’s how it reads, correct.

Re: Welcome to the NTPA LLSS (and some other fun stuff) October 02, 2020 01:55AM
This has all been brought to my attention, glad to see NTPA putting out a detailed set of rules, but guess they need to be written so that a 4 year old can understand. Harry Bledsoe was found illegal for very similar to this turbo issue. The bore of the turbo is what is measured and always has been, and if wheel must protrude 1/8” into the bore it can not measure 3.0 or 3.4 or whatever, it has to be smaller to fit into the the bore of the charger, and measuring at face of the wheel, at face of wheel not on face of wheel. So, that is measure bore at face of the wheel.

Ok, all tech officials out there have someone make you a set of plug gauges, go nogo, for all different sizes of turbos your club runs. 3.4 for example 3.4 will fit other half or second one measures 3.401 and it will not fit. You have to stand behind rules, and regardless of how rules get altered over the years, know how to check everything that needs to be checked within your club. And a lot of this needs to be checked before season start, and not leave it to protest, that is why you have tech officials. And any organization that do not support there tech officials, you should be prepared to lose vehicles.

Something to think about, have one vehicle that bends the rule, or they interpreted the rule a little different from others, and tech officials let it slide you can possibly loose 2 to 3 vehicles over time, but tech says no you can’t run it is not legal, you may lose that vehicle and maybe a buddy, so that’s 2, but you gain back the 2 to 3 you lost for letting it slide, and also 3 to 4 more for being stern on rules.


Again Turbos have always been measured by the bore at the face of the wheel, and wheel must protrude into that bore size in most cases at least 1/8”. If you think your rules state or mean anything any different from that YOU ARE WRONG...

Re: Welcome to the NTPA LLSS (and some other fun stuff) October 02, 2020 05:40AM
There it is. That's what I was looking for! Thank you!!

Re: Welcome to the NTPA LLSS (and some other fun stuff) October 02, 2020 11:14AM
Quote
Retired Head Tech Official
This has all been brought to my attention, glad to see NTPA putting out a detailed set of rules, but guess they need to be written so that a 4 year old can understand. Harry Bledsoe was found illegal for very similar to this turbo issue. The bore of the turbo is what is measured and always has been, and if wheel must protrude 1/8” into the bore it can not measure 3.0 or 3.4 or whatever, it has to be smaller to fit into the the bore of the charger, and measuring at face of the wheel, at face of wheel not on face of wheel. So, that is measure bore at face of the wheel.

Ok, all tech officials out there have someone make you a set of plug gauges, go nogo, for all different sizes of turbos your club runs. 3.4 for example 3.4 will fit other half or second one measures 3.401 and it will not fit. You have to stand behind rules, and regardless of how rules get altered over the years, know how to check everything that needs to be checked within your club. And a lot of this needs to be checked before season start, and not leave it to protest, that is why you have tech officials. And any organization that do not support there tech officials, you should be prepared to lose vehicles.

Something to think about, have one vehicle that bends the rule, or they interpreted the rule a little different from others, and tech officials let it slide you can possibly loose 2 to 3 vehicles over time, but tech says no you can’t run it is not legal, you may lose that vehicle and maybe a buddy, so that’s 2, but you gain back the 2 to 3 you lost for letting it slide, and also 3 to 4 more for being stern on rules.


Again Turbos have always been measured by the bore at the face of the wheel, and wheel must protrude into that bore size in most cases at least 1/8”. If you think your rules state or mean anything any different from that YOU ARE WRONG...

I understand what you are saying, but that is not what is written. Not being difficult I completely understand the intent of the rule, but that is not what is written. There is a big difference. You stating making a 3.4001 plug would be writing your own rule, not enforcing the written rule. Also completely agree that rules do need enforced, but don’t make them up as you go along.

Re: Welcome to the NTPA LLSS (and some other fun stuff) October 02, 2020 12:20PM
Quote
Retired Head Tech Official
This has all been brought to my attention, glad to see NTPA putting out a detailed set of rules, but guess they need to be written so that a 4 year old can understand. Harry Bledsoe was found illegal for very similar to this turbo issue. The bore of the turbo is what is measured and always has been, and if wheel must protrude 1/8” into the bore it can not measure 3.0 or 3.4 or whatever, it has to be smaller to fit into the the bore of the charger, and measuring at face of the wheel, at face of wheel not on face of wheel. So, that is measure bore at face of the wheel.

Ok, all tech officials out there have someone make you a set of plug gauges, go nogo, for all different sizes of turbos your club runs. 3.4 for example 3.4 will fit other half or second one measures 3.401 and it will not fit. You have to stand behind rules, and regardless of how rules get altered over the years, know how to check everything that needs to be checked within your club. And a lot of this needs to be checked before season start, and not leave it to protest, that is why you have tech officials. And any organization that do not support there tech officials, you should be prepared to lose vehicles.

Something to think about, have one vehicle that bends the rule, or they interpreted the rule a little different from others, and tech officials let it slide you can possibly loose 2 to 3 vehicles over time, but tech says no you can’t run it is not legal, you may lose that vehicle and maybe a buddy, so that’s 2, but you gain back the 2 to 3 you lost for letting it slide, and also 3 to 4 more for being stern on rules.


Again Turbos have always been measured by the bore at the face of the wheel, and wheel must protrude into that bore size in most cases at least 1/8”. If you think your rules state or mean anything any different from that YOU ARE WRONG...


Well, first I will start with the rules as stated clearly say the wheel must measure 3.4" or less. It does not specify a bore. Therefore until the rules are amended - you could have a 3.4" wheel and a 6" bore so long as the wheel protrudes 1/8" into the bore. Also, your go/no go gauge concept of one thousandth is the dumbest thing I've ever heard of. If you're going to do that then you need to specify what temperature you're going to check them at as aluminum moves one thousandth pretty easily. I.E. what would measure in a 60° shop in the winter will not be the same outside on a 90+° day.

I do however agree with you that there do need to be rules, and what rules there are should be enforced. However, like R Hall said, you can't make it up as you go. I feel that NTPA failed by writing the rules as they did, but they are written so until they're changed its what we have



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/02/2020 12:22PM by binderboy.

Re: Welcome to the NTPA LLSS (and some other fun stuff) October 01, 2020 04:09PM
Can someone please explain to me what regional national means? Does this mean we will see the LLSS at tomah and bowling green?

Re: Welcome to the NTPA LLSS (and some other fun stuff) October 01, 2020 07:39PM
Thank you NTPA, I personally think this will be a great class!!

Re: Welcome to the NTPA LLSS (and some other fun stuff) October 02, 2020 01:22PM
It is and will be a great class with a lot of changes to come the 3.4 turbo will cause lots of upsets as more hardcore pullers enter the class but as trump would say pulling will be great again with a great class full of color

Re: Welcome to the NTPA LLSS (and some other fun stuff) October 02, 2020 04:09PM
this looks like another "knuckle draggers" class to me.

Re: Welcome to the NTPA LLSS (and some other fun stuff) October 02, 2020 10:56PM
It'll probably wind up being the "entry" level class that costs 150k to build one.
First it was sf, then light pro, hot farm etc.

Re: Welcome to the NTPA LLSS (and some other fun stuff) October 03, 2020 01:43AM
Already a buck fifty I bet

Re: Welcome to the NTPA LLSS (and some other fun stuff) October 03, 2020 01:47AM
I'll sell mine for a buck fifty patches if you want one.

Re: Welcome to the NTPA LLSS (and some other fun stuff) October 03, 2020 06:58AM
it takes about 100 grand and at least 1400 horse to be competative

Re: Welcome to the NTPA LLSS (and some other fun stuff) October 03, 2020 07:04PM
You better have more than 1400hp if want to run with them Kentucky boys, 1400 is a bare minimum there.

Re: Welcome to the NTPA LLSS (and some other fun stuff) October 04, 2020 01:55AM
If it takes 1400 hp to run with the Kentucky boys, how much does it take to beat the Wisconsin boys? Pretty sure a Wisconsin tractor won Gordy

Re: Welcome to the NTPA LLSS (and some other fun stuff) October 04, 2020 02:00AM
More. I would guess in the 1600 to 1700 range.

Re: Welcome to the NTPA LLSS (and some other fun stuff) October 04, 2020 03:42AM
Theres several in KY between 1600 an 1700 hp.

Re: Welcome to the NTPA LLSS (and some other fun stuff) October 04, 2020 09:16AM
Congrats to NTPA they went the right direction can’t wait to see this awesome class out at some of the pulls next summer it’s one of the best classes in pulling by far!!! Now onto the NFMS adding the class on Wednesday night would be the coolest deal ever!

Re: Welcome to the NTPA LLSS (and some other fun stuff) October 04, 2020 09:28AM
Amen --- i second that motion.

Re: Welcome to the NTPA LLSS (and some other fun stuff) October 04, 2020 01:43PM
Great job NTPA, LLSS well deserves it! I also agree with adding LLSS to NFMS, they are well worthy to pull there.

Re: Welcome to the NTPA LLSS (and some other fun stuff) October 04, 2020 02:19PM
Will this class ever be component?

Re: Welcome to the NTPA LLSS (and some other fun stuff) October 04, 2020 02:33PM
It's unlikely since this is considered a beginner class but they're already reaching the limits of factory rear ends. Two have lost rear wheels down here in the south this year.

Re: Welcome to the NTPA LLSS (and some other fun stuff) October 04, 2020 02:36PM
Quote
unlikely
It's unlikely since this is considered a beginner class but they're already reaching the limits of factory rear ends. Two have lost rear wheels down here in the south this year.

Beginner class? I am sure many will be offended by that.

Re: Welcome to the NTPA LLSS (and some other fun stuff) October 05, 2020 12:06AM
This class doesn't need components. Move up to light supers if you what components.

Re: Welcome to the NTPA LLSS (and some other fun stuff) October 05, 2020 04:32AM
Component LLSS would be a perfect class. Get a lot of bang for your buck.

Re: Welcome to the NTPA LLSS (and some other fun stuff) October 05, 2020 07:24AM
Read the thread below about Super Farm --- same gripe !!! LEAVE LIGHT LIMITED SUPER STOCK ALONE --- WHY MESS WITH SOMETHING THAT IS WORKING !!! You will lose far more tractors than you'll gain i promise you that !!! Nobody currently running the class want or would spend the money to build one i guarantee that !!!!

Re: Welcome to the NTPA LLSS (and some other fun stuff) October 05, 2020 02:37PM
WOW! All I did was ask a simple question that must have raised some eyebrows. I TRIED TO TELL YOU ALL PRIVATELY NOT TO LET NTPA GET AHOLD OF YOUR CLASS BECAUSE COMPONENTS WILL HAPPEN WHEN NTPA GETS AHOLD OF YOUR CLASS! Everyone is so proud that NTPA has "adopted" it but components WILL happen even though they may not be needed!

Re: Welcome to the NTPA LLSS (and some other fun stuff) October 05, 2020 03:09PM
How do you keep NTPA from adopting a class ? Just asking !!!

? 4 so October 05, 2020 04:03PM
? 4 u is why ask that ?

Re: ? 4 so October 05, 2020 04:32PM
YOUR the one that said WE shouldn't have let NTPA adopt the class, tell me how to stop it !!!

Re: ? 4 so October 06, 2020 01:39PM
Quote
? 4 so
YOUR the one that said WE shouldn't have let NTPA adopt the class, tell me how to stop it !!!

NO, I did not say that! I said that you should not have let NTPA get AHOLD of your class! THAT is what I said. There's a BIG difference between getting AHOLD of a class and ADOPTING a class!

Re: ? 4 so,, To ; Patches. October 06, 2020 01:21PM
patches, you are WRONG!!
The axle housings are STEEL.
The drop out with the pinion, and ring gear, and diff housing are cast. But if those break, the wheel is not going to fall off.
And, anyone building component today would be using a Merritor 20-145 housing.
Also, the axle housing is STEEL.
Two halves of STAMPED STEEL.
WELDED together.
Stop by any truck scrap yard and look at one.
STEEL.
NOT CAST.

Re: ? 4 so,, To ; Patches. October 06, 2020 01:33PM
since you got that straight it cost 6000 dollars to build a 560 ih rear end to hold up parts alone how much to grab up one of those

Re: ? 4 so,, To ; Patches. October 06, 2020 02:29PM
Quote
HP
patches, you are WRONG!!
The axle housings are STEEL.
The drop out with the pinion, and ring gear, and diff housing are cast. But if those break, the wheel is not going to fall off.
And, anyone building component today would be using a Merritor 20-145 housing.
Also, the axle housing is STEEL.
Two halves of STAMPED STEEL.
WELDED together.
Stop by any truck scrap yard and look at one.
STEEL.
NOT CAST.


Snoop you are still stupid! Who says you have to build a component today using the Merrtor 20-145 housing? I am looking at a "DOC" rear end fool!

Re: ? 4 so,, To ; Patches., to the idiot SO October 07, 2020 03:02PM
the Doc rear is an excellent choice.
No where did I say you HAD to use the 20-145.
Just try to point out where I did.
Just that it is a better choice than the antique and hard to find sq stuff.

Re: ? 4 so,, To ; Patches., to the idiot SO October 07, 2020 03:17PM
Quote
HP
the Doc rear is an excellent choice.
No where did I say you HAD to use the 20-145.
Just try to point out where I did.
Just that it is a better choice than the antique and hard to find sq stuff.


lmao. I guess Ford 4000 rear end antique parts concealed in an 'AFTERMARKET' housing are ok with you then?

Re: ? 4 so,, To ; Patches., to the idiot SO October 07, 2020 04:29PM
Quote
HP
the Doc rear is an excellent choice.
No where did I say you HAD to use the 20-145.
Just try to point out where I did.
Just that it is a better choice than the antique and hard to find sq stuff.

Also enlighten all of us why your association has lost so many member states over the last 30 years!

Re: ? 4 so,, To ; Patches., to the idiot SO October 08, 2020 12:54AM
Ummm.... Wrong Doc.

Re: ? 4 so,, To ; Patches., to the clueless idiot, SO October 08, 2020 03:04PM
I'm going to laugh my ass of when your new Doc rear arrives with a Merritor center, because no one can find SQHD aluminum housings.
Oh, and the gear geometry is better in a 20-145 than a SQ.
Same with the AAM and the F-106,,,,,,,,,,,,,
And, none of the Ford stuff hidden in a Doc rear is cast,,,,, so there is that.
The reason we have lost so many member states, is because I have personally pissed every person, in every one of those states clear the heck off.

Re: ? 4 so,, To ; Patches., to the clueless idiot, SO October 08, 2020 04:35PM
Quote
HP

The reason we have lost so many member states, is because I have personally pissed every person, in every one of those states clear the heck off.

And yet you are still trying to get more members by adopting this class which you INTEND to screw up!

Re: ? 4 so,, To ; Patches., to the clueless idiot, SO October 09, 2020 03:28PM
since I am clueless

[www.youtube.com]

Re: Welcome to the NTPA LLSS (and some other fun stuff) October 06, 2020 04:11AM
So,
Two things, first NTPA will adapt any class they see fit it shouldn't real matter to those that don't want to run with them. Second no one is making anyone run with NTPA or for that matter making anyone run a component if NTPA were to adopt them.

S'no Farmer

Re: Welcome to the NTPA LLSS (and some other fun stuff) October 06, 2020 01:04PM
Quote
S'no Farmer
So,
Two things, first NTPA will adapt any class they see fit it shouldn't real matter to those that don't want to run with them. Second no one is making anyone run with NTPA or for that matter making anyone run a component if NTPA were to adopt them.

S'no Farmer

And that is TRUE but what will happen is it will NTPA's rules will filter down into smaller organizations Pressure WILL be put on them to follow NTPA. You and I have both seen it.

Components in ALL classes October 05, 2020 07:33AM
You take like the 460 rearends. Those tractors were made from 1958-63 and rate at 61 hp. So throwing 25x the horsepower to 60 year old cast makes sense in what world? The Oliver 1850 1960-62, again 60 year old cast and 25x the horsepower again. This is a motorsport, dependability and ease of parts is the name of the game. If you want “pure” tractor classes go watch antiques. The John Deere 4010, 60 years old and throwing 35x the hp it was designed for to it. 806, 1206, again 55-60 years old and throwing in excess of 30x the hp to it. Not to mention the grinding that goes on to these rear ends to make weight. I watched a an axle housing bust at Wilmington, Ohio NTPA event this year. If Dave Armstrong would have been at 250’ and had a full head of steam when that happened who knows where that tire would have ended up. I’m over the argument of tractors aren’t tractors once they go component. This is a motorsport and like all Motorsports with ever increasing hp and speed after market parts are needed, not only for durability but for the safety of all involved driver to fan. Some will argue to tune em back, we’ll pulling is still a sport of who is bigger and isn’t anybody that pulls if they are truly honest with themselves going to tune em back. Everybody wants to win. PERIOD. What’s going to happen when new rear ends make it into the sport and those come stock from the factory with plastic bell housings. Components in all classes is the future and its time to stop putting off the inevitable.

Re: Components in ALL classes October 05, 2020 09:25AM
I am all for safety. But in the last post , isn't gouging the rear end defeating the purpose of the product just to make it lighter? So who is at fault when something breaks? The builder or the manufacturer ?

Re: Components in ALL classes October 05, 2020 09:50AM
I agree with Dave about safety. As far as breaking axle housings all you have to do is tie the axle housing to rear end. not hard to do. Leave the rules alone. the new rule allowing 3.4X4 turbo will cost enough.

Re: Components in ALL classes October 05, 2020 11:01AM
Just like the $6500 pumps an the $5500 3.0 turbos lol cost isn’t going to change much if at all how much head work do you have an billet pistons billet rods billet cams billet injector bodys etc it a 3.4 turbo changes nothing for the cost. An no leave component bs out just stop talking about it bc it’s not going to happen for the next 10 years guaranteed absolutely no reason for them don’t like it it? Pull lss an you can build a component they have cast rear lss out west and do just fine this class is perfect nothing is going to change people but it also now has got a better chance to be added to more pristine pulls like tomah BG an NFMS ect

Re: Components in ALL classes October 05, 2020 10:19AM
And Ricky Long busted a driveshaft at Louisville last year with a 4 engine mod, ---- they all will break at some point, like previous post said tie axles to rearend, a whole lot cheaper than a high dollar component !!! And in if LLSS does go component at some point, ---- the next thing that will be the latest gripe topic on here will be because someone will want to start a new class -- light limited super farm !!!!

Re: Components in ALL classes October 05, 2020 01:08PM
A new puller can build a Component tractor cheaper from scratch than using a agg rear end Also theres lots of SS COMPONENT tractors parked sitting rusting away that could and would be put back on the track if they were allowed.I helped start this class and dont want to se it but it will come Also rules will change for the alcohol tractors when 20 or 30 Travis Gordon quality diesel tractors hit the track NTPA taking this class has just added another 20 or 30 thousand to the cost of building a tractor that will compete when originally a 25 thousand dollar tractor was something to be proud of and considered a high dollar piece when the class started

Re: Components in ALL classes October 05, 2020 02:31PM
I don't know where all these component super stocks that are just setting in a shop or barn are at, but theres noway they can be more than what you'd lose if it went to component, very few if any LLSS pullers would rebuild or convert, most would park, it happened when Light Super went component.

LET AN ATTORNEY GET AHOLD OF IT October 05, 2020 10:29PM
Some of you guys can’t think past the end of your nose. Let one of these 60 year old rear ends fail, a tire go bouncing out of control and seriously hurt someone. So Mr. LLSS puller, the rear end in your chassis is 60 years old? Yes Mr. Attorney From the factory in 1960 that tractor had 60 hp motor attached to it? Yes Mr. Attorney That rear end has been through 60 years of weathering, working a farm and had some tremendous stressors on it in its life? Yes Mr. Attorney So all that stress and fatigue over the years you are now using it and running 1700 HP to it pulling 45,000lbs? Yes Mr. Attorney So at the NTPA pull this past summer that rear ended broke sending one of your rear tires out of control eventually hitting my client’s child and killing him/her? Yes Mr. Attorney Are there safer options out there you could have built? Yes Mr. Attorney Yet you chose to run something that is 60 years old, something you admitted has seen a lot of stress and fatigue over the years, knowing the possibility existed it could fail and have catastrophe consequences for you and others? Well Mr. Attorney I’m a purist, I believe my Cockshutt 570 rear end with a 5.9 Cummins attached to it and Oliver 88 sheet metal over it is pulling in its purest form. Is that right? Yes Mr. Attorney Well son, I want what’s left of your tractor, house, farm and bank accounts for wrongful death and negligence. You knew more reliable options were available and you willfully chose not to utilize them.

When that attorney is done with you I hope he owns the sanctioning body’s hind parts as well. They are just as culpable for continuing to allow it. Everyone knows more durable pieces are an option, but; because we want to be “pure” can’t do it. Why does there need to be blood before a rule is written or something is allowed. You want to know why pulling isn’t at the next level? Small minded thinking, everyone knows the inherent danger of running cast that old, but by God my Frankenstein hodgepodge of Agni lineage tractor parts is pure. Most of you are probably the same ones that think any motor any sheet metal is dumb. I think it’s dumb to have an Oliver rear end with a Cummins in front of it and Massey sheet metal over it. That is any motor any sheet metal.

I guarantee the above scenario happens, you would be held liable for it knowing safer more durable alternatives were available.

Wheel tethers October 05, 2020 10:50PM
Along the same lines, it is foolish to not mandate tethers for wheels, both front and rear for all vehicles from minis to hot farm to unlimiteds. It is an easily foreseeable tragedy waiting to happen.

Re: Wheel tethers October 05, 2020 11:48PM
no different for the not so strong barriers along the tracks to contain the while moving unit, at speeds up to and over 35 plus mph,

Re: Wheel tethers October 06, 2020 04:20PM
Quote
The Original Michael
Along the same lines, it is foolish to not mandate tethers for wheels, both front and rear for all vehicles from minis to hot farm to unlimiteds. It is an easily foreseeable tragedy waiting to happen.

Design them then since you know so much!

Re: Wheel tethers October 07, 2020 01:17AM
They are already designed... Monster Trucks use them, F1 uses them. They already exist. Tethers are a common sense solution to the problem of loosing a wheel. Thankfully nobody has been hurt yet but it's just a matter of time until it happens if nothing is done. A front tire coming down from 20' in the air could cause serious damage and possibly kill someone. A back tire at Gordyville did some serious damage to a wall and a steel crossmember in the wall. We've been very lucky so far. Waiting until that happens is negligence.



Jake Morgan
Owner, PULLOFF.COM
Independent Pulling News



This page is a free service. The cost is covered out of my pocket. It takes a great deal of time and a fair amount of money to keep this website going. Donations for: photos, classified ads, forum discussion, etc... are appreciated.





Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/07/2020 06:03AM by Jake Morgan.

Re: Wheel tethers October 07, 2020 03:23PM
Quote
Jake Morgan
A back tire at Gordyville did some serious damage to a wall and a steel crossmember in the wall.

Yeah I know, because I was there when that happened

NEGLIGENCE October 08, 2020 03:10AM
Not installing or allowing extra safety measures that could save people from serious bodily harm or injury is negligence. To the ding dong telling me to leave Oliver to the “experts”, lets bump the class to 6500 guy. It’s no longer a light class then. Why do you need the 1800/50, because the 880, 1650, 2-70 rearends won’t take today’s hp. Using 60 year old cast soon to be 65 year old cast when more reliable options are available is just plain DUMB. Just because components are allowed doesn’t mean you have to build one. As an organization though, anyone choosing to run cast rearends would sign a letter stating they assume all responsibility and liability should that machine have catastrophic rear end failure and injure someone. Components have a 40 year history of being pretty reliable if you go back to when mods first started using the Eaton and Rockwell rear ends. This is a motorsport and you can argue it got way out of hand over the years, but the horse is out of the gate and running full speed now. NTPA likes to tout safety, I would argue they have a history of being reactive and not pro active. Larry Richwine “ there isn’t a rule in the book that doesn’t have blood on it somewhere”. Let’s not wait for blood to be spilled. Dave Armstrong your hub broke, ok, got me. I wonder if running those hollow axles to gain moveable weight to run your 60 year old stock rearend was worth it. Going to attach a letter from one of the directors of MTRA. And a link after the letter to the whole thread. The whole thread is 4 pages long and pretty informative.



Let me give you a third scenario. A MTRA certified truck goes out for freestyle equipped with a mandated tether system which fails. A spectator and/or the driver is injured by either the tethered wheel or frayed cable. The media then comes to the president and asks him why a system which was not fully developed was required by the organization. Subsequently the families of these parties hire attorneys to file suit against the MTRA and each of the board members personally for forcing the measure through.

FELD began limited testing of wheel tethers last year. There was then more wide spread usage this year. This however is still not a requirement. Therefore the same argument you use to support your perceived inaction on the part of the MTRA could also be applied to FELD for not having required these in the past. I believe you are so focused on your perception that you are missing the point. The point is that both parties (and more specifically the overlap between the two) are still researching the specifications for such a mandate. Simply stating you must have them is not sufficient. Furthermore, how upset would our members be if we had in fact mandated specifications this year which were different than those required by FELD next year, thereby requiring them to replace their existing systems? (Note Don?s reluctance to do anything until specifications are defined.)

Let me again restate this?

This particular situation (wheel restrains) may seem like a no brainer since FELD, CFP and others will be requiring them for 2010. However anything we do now still sets a precedent for future action. Therefore if we were not required to consult with the general membership about requiring wheel restrains, then, we would also not need to consult with them about requiring anything we believe should be required in the future. Keep in mind that if we plan on being even more proactive in the establishment of safety standards, it is possible that we may be proposing things which are not yet required by these promoters. Therefore, some might consider those unnecessary expenses forced upon them. We would rather establish a sense of fair play and good will with the membership now, than be perceived as dictators in the future.

So it is not about ?indecision?. It is about cautious consideration of the ramifications of one?s actions. Again, from your comments one would perceive that the MTRA is lagging far behind on safety issues. This could not be further from the truth. We are researching a number of issues which no one is even raising, yet. We are being proactive. Simply because wheel restraints will not be required until next year does not indicate that we are indecisive.

And finally, since the point of my initial post was to illicit participation. Please ask yourself what you personally have done to further this issue which you obviously feel so strongly about.

Thank you for speaking your mind.

Marty G.
MTRA Advisor

[www.monstermayhem.org]

Re: NEGLIGENCE October 08, 2020 05:42AM
You're talking in circles about the Oliver rear ends to try and look right.

Re: NEGLIGENCE October 08, 2020 08:17AM
I am right, no talking in circles, I am right period.

Re: LET AN ATTORNEY GET AHOLD OF IT October 06, 2020 03:22AM
you do know sqld/sqhd housings are cast too....lol

Re: LET AN ATTORNEY GET AHOLD OF IT October 06, 2020 01:52PM
Quote
patches
you do know sqld/sqhd housings are cast too....lol

No, because they're not...

Re: LET AN ATTORNEY GET AHOLD OF IT October 07, 2020 12:37PM
Quote
Longtimefan
Well Mr. Attorney I’m a purist, I believe my Cockshutt 570 rear end with a 5.9 Cummins attached to it and Oliver 88 sheet metal over it is pulling in its purest form. Is that right?


That's funny right there. lol

Re: Components in ALL classes October 06, 2020 12:08AM
Quote
Longtimefan
You take like the 460 rearends. Those tractors were made from 1958-63 and rate at 61 hp. So throwing 25x the horsepower to 60 year old cast makes sense in what world? The Oliver 1850 1960-62, again 60 year old cast and 25x the horsepower again. This is a motorsport, dependability and ease of parts is the name of the game. If you want “pure” tractor classes go watch antiques. The John Deere 4010, 60 years old and throwing 35x the hp it was designed for to it. 806, 1206, again 55-60 years old and throwing in excess of 30x the hp to it. Not to mention the grinding that goes on to these rear ends to make weight. I watched a an axle housing bust at Wilmington, Ohio NTPA event this year. If Dave Armstrong would have been at 250’ and had a full head of steam when that happened who knows where that tire would have ended up. I’m over the argument of tractors aren’t tractors once they go component. This is a motorsport and like all Motorsports with ever increasing hp and speed after market parts are needed, not only for durability but for the safety of all involved driver to fan. Some will argue to tune em back, we’ll pulling is still a sport of who is bigger and isn’t anybody that pulls if they are truly honest with themselves going to tune em back. Everybody wants to win. PERIOD. What’s going to happen when new rear ends make it into the sport and those come stock from the factory with plastic bell housings. Components in all classes is the future and its time to stop putting off the inevitable.


Leave the education about 1850 rear ends (or 1800's rather since they were built in 60-62, not 1850's) to those that are familiar with them. Those rear ends giggle at this horsepower and weight. This is why some of us want 6500 instead of 6 or 6250. We like using parts that weigh a little more, and are 3x as strong.

Re: Components in ALL classes October 11, 2020 04:42PM
Quote
sfd823




This is why some of us want 6500 instead of 6 or 6250.

And that's EXACTLY why the class will never be a true national class because you can't agree on rules. All NTPA wants in mho is your money and that comes from a clueless idiot.

Re: Components in ALL classes October 06, 2020 12:37AM
Longtime fan I did not break an axle housing please get your facts straight it was a hub

Re: Components in ALL classes October 10, 2020 02:59PM
Quote
Dave Armstrong
Longtime fan I did not break an axle housing please get your facts straight it was a hub

What kind of hub was it?

Re: Components in ALL classes October 08, 2020 10:52PM
Man I'm glad you know so much about my tractor you don't have a clue leave me out of this conversation

Re: Three Facts October 12, 2020 02:51PM
Fact 1. NTPA wants the License money, 50 Pullers X $700 = $35,000 ! Fact 2. Once NTPA adopts your class, They decide on the rules not the Pullers ! Fact 3. Components Chassis will completely Ruin the class ! Fact 4. 6500 # will change the out come of the class ! I have No Dog in this race, just been around pulling way to long and seeing history repeat it's self !!!

Re: Three Facts October 13, 2020 04:20PM
Quote
Fact Check
Fact 1. NTPA wants the License money, 50 Pullers X $700 = $35,000 ! Fact 2. Once NTPA adopts your class, They decide on the rules not the Pullers ! Fact 3. Components Chassis will completely Ruin the class ! Fact 4. 6500 # will change the out come of the class ! I have No Dog in this race, just been around pulling way to long and seeing history repeat it's self !!!

Agree with that 200%! But I am clueless so what would I know?

Re: Three Facts October 14, 2020 03:10AM
All interesting points but nobody forces anyone to join any organization so what does it mater what NTPA does just don't pull with them...problem solved.

S'no Farmer

Re: Three Facts October 14, 2020 06:45AM
I think it’s a good thing when rules are imposed by a group of people that are NOT pullers and there for typically do what’s overall best for a class or organization rather than what is best for themselves or their friends. I’ve seen that happen to different classes over the years then people wonder why it’s such a $$$ game. Also S’no farmer you hit the nail on the head but I think people just like complaining maybe they’re democrats.

Re: Three Facts October 14, 2020 03:10PM
Quote
Jus thinking
I think it’s a good thing when rules are imposed by a group of people that are NOT pullers and there for typically do what’s overall best for a class or organization rather than what is best for themselves or their friends. I’ve seen that happen to different classes over the years then people wonder why it’s such a $$$ game. Also S’no farmer you hit the nail on the head but I think people just like complaining maybe they’re democrats.

And I have seen people that don't pull impose rules for their friends that pull also.

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