What is the most recent year tractor model you've seen hook? February 22, 2021 12:10PM
Just thinking about reasons why the sport isn't growing. There are several and folks have mentioned them.

However, I thought of a question: You can see trucks that have newer models, but for tractors, what's the most recent model year you've seen hook to a sled?

I suppose a pro stock may have sheet metal of a newer model, but as far as "the drapes matching," not sure. In Indiana, I can watch everything from mph farm stock up through hot farm and see 1066s, 4430s, even D-21s and Case 1070s, but a tractor made this century? That's harder to come up with.

How would a youngster who might otherwise be interested in pulling relate to classes where most if not all the vehicles were last made decades before they were even born?



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 02/22/2021 12:14PM by The Original Michael.
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Re: What is the most recent year tractor model you've seen hook? February 22, 2021 01:28PM
This might be purely anecdotal to me, but I'll ask if it matters. Since my earliest memories of pulling, it's been 1066s and 4440s, the former last made 2 years before I was born and the latter when I was 4. Yet, here I am. Based upon likelihood of actual real world exposure, a heck of a lot more kids know about an A, M, or 8N than have ever sat in or been exposed to an 8R Series or a modern Magnum.

CP
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Re: What is the most recent year tractor model you've seen hook? February 22, 2021 03:15PM
I would rather see newer tractors pull with common rail injection, etc. The newest i have seen of actual tractors are a Case 2290, John Deere 4455 (Mexican edition so it still has a synchro)and ford tw series in open classes. Yes I have seen CaseIH mx magnums, John Deere 8r series and New Holland TG series pull in out of the field classes.
I hate it when tractors don't follow the engine and sheet metal rule. Suck as the Butter MM tractor, Beyond Limits MF tractor, and others. They are good tractors but should not be allowed. It is wrong IMO.
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Re: What is the most recent year tractor model you've seen hook? February 23, 2021 05:50AM
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cpr
This might be purely anecdotal to me, but I'll ask if it matters. Since my earliest memories of pulling, it's been 1066s and 4440s, the former last made 2 years before I was born and the latter when I was 4. Yet, here I am. Based upon likelihood of actual real world exposure, a heck of a lot more kids know about an A, M, or 8N than have ever sat in or been exposed to an 8R Series or a modern Magnum.

CP

To expand on CP's mindset - There are a bunch more younger folks now sitting on 77 and 88 Olivers, G John Deeres, and H/M/SM Farmalls pulling than there were 10 years ago. Some of it is product of a new wave of kids getting old enough to start pulling with their parents or grandparents or both. I know of several families with three generations pulling like this now...CP I know has seen that in the past few months.

The sport is growing you just have to look in the right direction to find it, where the economics of it all are more manageable.


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Re: What is the most recent year tractor model you've seen hook? February 22, 2021 10:04PM
When not talking straight out of field classes but "souped up" and hood matching the rear end and engine:
a 1995-99 Fendt 515 in our 2.6 inlet / 427 cui class:





And there is a 6920 JD in the same class




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Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 02/23/2021 04:01AM by Sascha.
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Re: What is the most recent year tractor model you've seen hook? February 23, 2021 01:17AM
Wasn't there a 7000 series deere rearend running ntpa prostock before it got ruled out?
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Re: What is the most recent year tractor model you've seen hook? February 23, 2021 04:32AM
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Puller892
Wasn't there a 7000 series deere rearend running ntpa prostock before it got ruled out?

Probably thinking of Wilemans in the early 2000s, before component pro stocks were allowed. It might have actually been 8000 series castings, but 7000 sheetmetal. I brought this up in the component thread- much like some of the Oliver/White designs, those factory tractors were constructed in a way that when tied together with a frame for pulling, they had some very component-like attributes.
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Re: What is the most recent year tractor model you've seen hook? February 23, 2021 04:43AM
I'd guess maybe I've seen a legit 55 series JD as a true pulling tractor. But that's about it. And this is a point I tried to make in the component thread- factory tractor chassis haven't really been suitable for competitive tractor pulling for 25 years now. They have gotten continually larger and heavier, MFWD is the rule and is an integral part of the design, crazy complexity in transmissions, massive hydraulic systems, etc. The attributes that make a good pulling tractor are no longer similar to those that make a good, or at least modern, field tractor. If we want to have any semblance of a relationship to modern technology in the future, it is going to have to be with components. Pulling tractors that aren't component chassis will by necessity be antiques. I don't necessarily like it, but that's how it is.
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Re: PPL Limited Pros and components February 23, 2021 05:14AM
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Under_Pressure
I'd guess maybe I've seen a legit 55 series JD as a true pulling tractor. But that's about it. And this is a point I tried to make in the component thread- factory tractor chassis haven't really been suitable for competitive tractor pulling for 25 years now. They have gotten continually larger and heavier, MFWD is the rule and is an integral part of the design, crazy complexity in transmissions, massive hydraulic systems, etc. The attributes that make a good pulling tractor are no longer similar to those that make a good, or at least modern, field tractor. If we want to have any semblance of a relationship to modern technology in the future, it is going to have to be with components. Pulling tractors that aren't component chassis will by necessity be antiques. I don't necessarily like it, but that's how it is.

Then the next logical question is why aren't components allowed (not mandated) in more classes? The common reasons are 1) cost ("allowed" doesn't mean someone has buy one, just that they have that option), or 2), but if I don't get a component, then I'll not be competitive (which is another way of saying components are superior to OEM, or OEM is inferior to a component).

I understand why a puller wouldn't want a component if they built for the rules of the class they're currently in. That's a valid point. But...... horsepower and torque have progressed to the point where running 25 or in many cases 50 year old stuff may not be the safest solution. Here's a serious question- Pick a class where components are not allowed. Look in the crystal ball 5 years down the road. I ask you: In 2025, is it likely will the horsepower of that class will increase? And the OEM equipment will be another 5 years older.

May PPL had the right idea with their Limited Pro class. Rip off the bandaid now to help the future of the class.
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Re: PPL Limited Pros and components February 23, 2021 07:08AM
I just love how some of these guys that dont own or has never pulled but always has the answer to pulling, ive been doing this for a long time ( since the mid 80s ) and yes pulling power has increased dramatically but not ever class needs component ( BUILD FOR THE CLASS YOU ARE GOING TO RUN ) leave the classes that by popular participation and strong numbers alone. I'll gladly start a gofundme for all the non pullers that are campaigning for component tractors an you can get you a taste of what it cost an you can come by the shop as we're building it an you can look at the perfectly good transmission and rearend that we'll take out and set aside, just remember " ITS ON YOUR DOLLAR " AND MANY DOLLARS OF THEM !!!! again i say BUILD FOR THE CLASS YOU ANTICIPATE RUNNING, dont try to change what has and is working !!!!
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Re: PPL Limited Pros and components February 23, 2021 07:54AM
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2nd opinion
ive been doing this for a long time ( since the mid 80s ) and yes pulling power has increased dramatically but not ever class needs component ( BUILD FOR THE CLASS YOU ARE GOING TO RUN ) leave the classes that by popular participation and strong numbers alone. I'll gladly start a gofundme for all the non pullers that are campaigning for component tractors an you can get you a taste of what it cost an you can come by the shop as we're building it an you can look at the perfectly good transmission and rearend that we'll take out and set aside, just remember " ITS ON YOUR DOLLAR " AND MANY DOLLARS OF THEM !!!! again i say BUILD FOR THE CLASS YOU ANTICIPATE RUNNING, dont try to change what has and is working !!!!

Three points:

1. If you've been pulling since the '80s, then you started when there were 5,7,9, and 12k classes, or 10/12k for Pros. Yet, those tractors built for those classes they wanted to run were forced to make changes in many cases when the weights changed.

If you ran a GN TWD up through some time in the early 90s, you could run a 650 ci motor. Those guys built for the class they wanted to compete, yet the rule changed to align the GN limits with the PN/RN limits of 575ci. Heck, even something as basic as what is the Full Pull track length seems to change yearly.

My point? Every year there are rule proposals and often those proposals are adopted. Every time a rule is proposed and adopted, it means a potential or actual change for pullers who BUILT FOR THE CLASS THEY WERE RUNNING. Yet, rules still get proposed/adopted. The sport evolves. Rules change over time. Your last sentence "don't try to change what is working....." Apparently, many pullers feel most diesel tractor classes are not working because there are rule changes proposed annually, largely in those classes.

2. Others have pointed out that it's not any more expensive, and perhaps less expensive, starting from scratch to build component. I respect you've already spent your money. Why would you want to not allow someone who has not yet spent the money to have the option (OPTION = their choice) to build one if they feel it's more economical and/or safer? If someone wants to pull your class, and wants a new vehicle, if the cost is similar (or even less expensive), what's the skin off your nose of the other guy builds a component (with important caveat in Point #3 below). Would you agree that a component tractor is superior performance-wise to a non-component?

3. In a past thread, I posted a possible solution to the component issue: Involve tech, class reps, and other relevant parties. Come up with some type of horsepower guideline. If the hp of a class meets or exceeds whatever guideline they come up with, components are allowed (not mandated). If not, they're not allowed. Meaning,- if the powers that be decide that a light pro exceeds whatever threshhold they come up with but an altered farm doesn't, there's your answer as to whether a component can be legal in a given class.... or maybe they will decide the current rules regarding which classes components are allowed in are fine.

I agree with you that not every class needs components, that ignores the more pertinent question of what classes NOW should allow components. Times change. Rules change. Thus, pulling organizations will have to change with the times.

PS- that 1066 you see at every pull.... it was last made in 1976. The newest one is 45 years old. Eventually, the stress of hooking to a sled at a power range it was never designed for will catch up with somebody somewhere.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/23/2021 08:13AM by The Original Michael.
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Re: PPL Limited Pros and components February 23, 2021 08:25AM
The Original Michael -- what class do you pull, jus curious, cause you seem to know about every class going, you must have a ton of experience of owning and building and maintaining one, but if you don't own one or ever have , you really dont know !!!!
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Re: PPL Limited Pros and components February 23, 2021 08:38AM
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2nd opinion
The Original Michael -- what class do you pull, jus curious, cause you seem to know about every class going, you must have a ton of experience of owning and building and maintaining one, but if you don't own one or ever have , you really dont know !!!!

I have been open that I am a lifelong fan, not a puller. Never hid that. If it weren't for those of us willing to drive hours to pay admission at Bowling Green or Gordyville, there would be no Bowling Green, Gordyville, or county fair pull anywhere in the US... except maybe one pull in Indiana that manages to fund itself mainly through fish sandwiches.

Despite my not being a puller, none of the points I made were addressed. I could be John Klug, Danny Dean, or Joe Blow from out in the boondocks, but that's irrelevant. Either the points have merit in and of themselves, or they don't. Whatever class(es) you run, my respect and thanks.
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Re: PPL Limited Pros and components February 23, 2021 08:55AM
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2nd opinion
The Original Michael -- what class do you pull, jus curious, cause you seem to know about every class going, you must have a ton of experience of owning and building and maintaining one, but if you don't own one or ever have , you really dont know !!!!

What class do you pull 2nd opinion? I don’t own one but I’ve built ag rears for prostock, limited pro and light pro and on down the line. I’ve also had significant experience in the building and maintaining of component chassis in the prostock division so I feel like I’m qualified to give an opinion on the matter. I also feel that since I’m not vested I’m not walking around with blinders on because I want to protect an investment that hasn’t failed..... yet.

Michael brought up valid points for discussion on a message board. This is the place for these types of discussions where pros and cons can be discussed and possibly some improvements to the sport can be made.
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Re: PPL Limited Pros and components February 23, 2021 09:29AM
Ive ran every tractor class 5-7-9 super, currently run LLSS, ive watched all of them progress and get totally out of hand, theres got to be classes for guys or gals that dont want to go component or can't justify rebuilding when money and time has already been spent, and i know you or anyone else probably cares but thats my imput, sry if i affended anyone, but thats the reason me and several more didn't go component when that all started several yrs ago, IMO -- if its a limited class no need for a component, theres not a LLSS running thats making as much horsepower that Rob Russell or any of the SS were making back in the late 90s and they hardly ever broke anything in the driveline, i know cause i ran with them back then, and i am referring to the LLSS class only.
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Re: PPL Limited Pros and components February 23, 2021 09:03AM
Mods went component in the 70s with way less than 1000 hp
.I'd also think if a 7 engine unlimited 11,200 lbs mod cant tear up trans and rears regularly,ain't no diesel tractor going to either
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