06:47:26am, Sunday, April 28, 2024
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NTPA
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Greg k
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I have followed NTPA my entire life. I do believe NTPA best days are behind them. Bad decisions, poor relationships, lack of forsight, lack of sponsorships and other reasons have now solidified NTPA position as no longer the leader in national circuit pulling. The fiasco with the light unlimited has killed that class. For whatever reason nobody would make changes necessary to grow a light class like a RN or Outlaws class. Nobody with the nads to stand up and say enough ! We are fixing this class. The unlimited class has fewer pullers now since NTPA outlawed Boyds set up. It appears PPL mods are not going to run unlimited anymore as none came to Tomah for their reduced purse pull. Walsh was to bring 2 turbines but didnt, Berg didnt hook, and Purser didnt come. You had 3 decent unlimited hooks and then very poor runs. Who decided to run off Boyds and others with screw blower limits. Who decided to run off Chizek and kill the SSO Open class ? Look at the number of hooks made by NTPA non members in Tomah. Does that tell you these guys dont plan to hook much with NTPA unless PPL is rained out or an open date. It just isnt important to pullers to compete in Tomah anymore. It was important for pullers to compete in Benson, Farley, and Ft Recovery. Look at the turnout. Tomah is just another pull now albeit one that is longer drive than pullers want to make. 7 SSD Trucks at Tomah ? Come on. I would say the numbers at some pulls this summer will be awful. I do believe BG will need to reorganize how they sanction NTPC and I would think Chapel Hill will do the same. WPI needs to make management changes, cut payroll, increase purses, bring in ample sponsorship or close up shop. It is really hard to watch the GN product that NTPA is producing today. |
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Re: NTPA
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Leon
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Been a lotta people saying the same things for years, but the can keeps getting kicked down the road. |
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Re: NTPA
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RunnerBoy
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Greg you are 100% correct in your thinking here. It’s time for BG to either be an independent National Championship, or pair with the PPL. The NTPA is dying. The PPL is thriving. The sad numbers at Tomah this weekend would have been even sadder had the PPL pull not been cancelled allowing a bunch of vehicles to head to Tomah instead. |
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Re: NTPA
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Team one
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Runnerboy you make it sound like there were hundreds of PPL vehicles in attendance because of the mound city rain out , there were 4 or 5 pro stocks and maybe 5 others in different classes … |
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Re: NTPA
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Greg k
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Team one. If you saw lineups each night it was very easy to see who was night NTPA member. There were many many more than 4 or 5 in Limited Ps and Light Prostock that were not NTPA members. |
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Re: NTPA
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Team one
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Greg K , yep 2-3 light ps and 4-5 lim. Ps, yes they helped the show, but didn’t make or break it . |
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Re: NTPA
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Registered: 04/06/2008 Posts: 974 |
It’s unreal how ten years ago I said the same thing on this page but had nothing but daggers and criticism thrown at me…….NTPA doesn’t give a @#$%& about the pullers or the fans. Only their own pocket books matter to them |
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Re: NTPA
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Registered: 04/04/2008 Posts: 630 |
I'm not sure how deeply I want get into this but I like you have been a fan following NTPA pulling since high school. I never dreamed I would ever have a chance to participate at the level that I do in the pulling world.
I have been put in the position of mod committee, not a position I wanted nor asked for. I received a letter stating that they wanted me on the committee and oh by the way you are the chairman. Not really something I'm comfortable with but I thought it was time for me to give back to the sport that I have enjoyed for so many years. Greg K, you kind of contradict your self in saying that it was wrong to limit the screw blowers in the heavy Unlimited but yet it seems you feel the Lt class is held back by the use of the big blowers. Unless you mean that the class should never have changed from the beginning...I'm not sure of your solution for that class. One quick note, Boyd's were never the reason or target or whatever term you want to use for the limiting of the screw blower overdrive. It was a proposal brought to the committee for safety concerns. The concern was that if a driveline were to break on a tractor with the blowers at 145% overdrive and the engines over rev things could come apart and the blower parts could be hard to contain in a safe manner. The proposal was to limit those blowers to 125%, that by the way is the limit that NHRA uses. My job as chairman is to bring these proposals to the table for discussion (they are NOT my proposals I only bring them into the discussion). During this discussion I said that if 125% over was enough for the NHRA why was it not enough for the NTPA? That question didn't go over well with some of the pullers that it affects but I see it as my job to bring these questions to the table for input good or bad. Well I became the bad guy and that is OK because the discussion needed to happen. The next thing we do is vote (committee members only) as to whether we are going to recommend this proposal or not recommend it. In this case I think we recommended it. It then is presented to the full board of directors, the final decision is made by the WPI board of directors. We as a mod committee have been accused or running off people like Adam and the Boyd's when in reality we have discussions to recommend or not recommend proposals to the powers that be then they make their decisions. In both cases no one had to quit running their respective classes. I've said many times that Adam would still have been the tractor to beat with two engines just like he was with three and you can't tell me that the Boyd tractors wouldn't still be at the top of the class at only 125% overdrive they are too good at this game to be hindered by that change. Are they upset enough to quit their respective classes because of the changes obviously the answer is yes. That was my answer to not limiting the blowers in the lt Unlimited, I went elsewhere. Was I mad, not really I just had other classes that suited my budget and needs better. On another note the Chizek group had left NTPA before the rules were changed. How to fix it, don't have that answer and if someone has that answer and wants the Mod committee chair spot I will gladly step aside, as is often stated these are thankless jobs but we do them for the love of the sport good bad or indifferent. S'no Farmer Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/27/2021 02:07AM by S'no Farmer. |
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Re: NTPA
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No Committees
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This brief synopsis is part of the NTPA’s problem and why the PPL is racing past it. The pullers debating and making the rules is a concept that doesn’t work for growth. It protects special interests. It’s much of the reason the SSD class is dead, they kept changing the rules to protect the privileged few (no secret who they are). Management/ownership should set the rules and competitors can then decide to participate or not. When numbers fall, management should adjust. |
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Re: NTPA
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Registered: 06/16/2017 Posts: 241 |
For you guys crowing about NTPA ruining their DSS class by allowed things that shouldn’t of been allowed. Are you the same crew loving Ross’s pulling with the booze burners? Without those “special” rules this wouldn’t even be a realm of possibility to do! The numbers in the DSS class have a lot more to do with the fact there’s 10 other diesel classes to pull in. It’s still the most popular class for them to book, just look at they’re hooks even with a chance of only getting a handful at some events. If the JD guys would spend some time developing a super stock program like they have the pro stock programs it’d sure be a lot more interesting. If there were 8-10 Deere’s to run with the binders it’d be a dam good class again! |
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Re: NTPA
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Fan 2
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So you're saying ppl pullers have nothing to do with the rules in their class? |
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Re: NTPA
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Greg k
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Todd, I understand your role and appreciate you giving back to pulling. |
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Re: NTPA
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Posts: 376 |
Who gives a @#$%&??? Just go to the pulls you want to support and shut up. |
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Re: NTPA
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Agreed
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I agree 100 l percent Big Block! Some people can't do that. They have to get on a public forum and run their pie holes about this and that and boo hoo about this and that and all they are doing is give our sport a big black eye. If you don't like a pull or an organization or a certain class then shut your traps and pull or spectate where you are satisfied! Its not rocket science people. Enjoy the pulls and quit crying like the spoiled baby whiny butts that this country is producing through all the bs about hurting somebody feelings. Grow up people and have fun and quit bickering! |
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Re: NTPA
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Moderator Registered: 03/25/2008 Posts: 1,446 |
So if you go to a restaurant and only get half your food I'm sure you say what the heck at least I got some food, NO! You would call the manager over and say " where's the rest of my food". It's the same thing with some of the NTPA classes, you are only getting half your meal. Pretending that things are going in the right direction with some aspects of the NTPA is foolish and does not fix the problems.
Side note; I love the people that use social media ie; pulloff.com to complain about social media, isn't it rather hypocritical to say the least. Just saying! Dick Morgan www.PULLOFF.com Independent Pulling News Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/27/2021 03:55AM by Dick Morgan. |
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Re: NTPA
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Team one
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Ok Dick, but what do you consider a proper number of vehicles for each class to determine that “you got your money’s worth “ ? DSS is my favorite class and I’ve been able to except the fact that there are only a handful of them around, sometimes there’s 15 sometimes there are only 5 but I don’t set a price point on any class in particular, for $22 we still saw a great number of pulls in Tomah. |
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Re: NTPA
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Registered: 03/25/2008 Posts: 2,526 |
I deleted a few comments from this thread... complaining about a thread is not productive... simply read a different thread if you don't like this one. Throwing in some lazy off topic political comments is a waste of space, there's an Off-Topic Forum for that so stay on topic.
Tomah is a SUPER National. It's not just some state pull and it's not supposed to be like any other national event. It's supposed to be one of the premier events, one of the crown jewels for the NTPA. It should be the second biggest pull for the NTPA's schedule. It's numbers didn't reflect that in some classes. The real question is why where the numbers down in some classes? - Are guys waiting for parts? Sure - Was weather a factor for turnout? Maybe - Are some guys limiting their miles this year? Maybe - Are some guys just not supporting NTPA anymore? Definitely - Are some guys specifically not supporting Tomah? Definitely, it was Dave S. hometown event and maybe some guys are sending a message. - Are some classes just a disaster? Absolutely! The Light Unlimited is a joke. It has some great competitors but the rules are terrible. It had such potential and they completely dropped the ball on the rule making. Infact maybe it's time to discuss dropping the word unlimited from ALL pulling classes. There are a number of different reasons for the low turnout and I don't see how discussing them gives the sport a black eye. In fact it's idiotic and childish to suggest that discussion hurts the sport. If a woman goes to the Dr. and the Dr. wants to have a discussion about the bruises and the black eye she has should she not talk about it? Should she pretend everything is fine? Will that help? Obviously not! Tomah had some issues this year, some are beyond their control, some might not be as big an issue to certain people, and some might be bigger issues than we know, some (many) fall directly at the feet of the NTPA. This discussion isn't simply complaining, crying, whining, this is an actual discussion about some of the problems... about some of the bruises and the blackeyes that appeared at Tomah. If you don't think there are problems then that's great you should read a different thread about something else. Jake Morgan Owner, PULLOFF.COM Independent Pulling News This page is a free service. The cost is covered out of my pocket. It takes a great deal of time and a fair amount of money to keep this website going. Donations for: photos, classified ads, forum discussion, etc... are appreciated. Side Note: We are no longer accepting PayPal donations. They have changed their terms of service and stated they would fine PayPal users for spreading "misinformation" and "hate, violence, racial or other forms of intolerance that is discriminatory". PayPal did not provide definitions for some of these vague terms. Woke corporate policies regarding "misinformation" could result in an automatic fine of $2,500 which would have been removed directly from the customer’s PayPal account. PayPal did backdown from some of their policies but quietly implemented portions of them in later terms of service. A financial institute has no right to monitor social media accounts or speech. This is unacceptable and I'll no longer do business with PayPal. |
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Re: NTPA
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Posts: 1,161 |
Actually they weren't a Super National this year, just a Grand National. Hopefully, that was only a one year deal with last year's cancelation due to Covid. Brent Yaron Hooked Up Pulling Productions hookeduppullingproductions@gmail.com |
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Re: NTPA
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Registered: 03/25/2008 Posts: 2,526 |
Thanks Brent, I forgot about that. None-the-less they one of the crown jewels for the NTPA and it was not a great showing in some classes. Again, it's not 100% the fault of the NTPA, and it's not like the event and the NTPA didn't have number of positive things, but there are some issues happening and I hope the NTPA isn't sticking it's head in the sand and I hope they are brainstorming ways to address the issues. Jake Morgan Owner, PULLOFF.COM Independent Pulling News This page is a free service. The cost is covered out of my pocket. It takes a great deal of time and a fair amount of money to keep this website going. Donations for: photos, classified ads, forum discussion, etc... are appreciated. Side Note: We are no longer accepting PayPal donations. They have changed their terms of service and stated they would fine PayPal users for spreading "misinformation" and "hate, violence, racial or other forms of intolerance that is discriminatory". PayPal did not provide definitions for some of these vague terms. Woke corporate policies regarding "misinformation" could result in an automatic fine of $2,500 which would have been removed directly from the customer’s PayPal account. PayPal did backdown from some of their policies but quietly implemented portions of them in later terms of service. A financial institute has no right to monitor social media accounts or speech. This is unacceptable and I'll no longer do business with PayPal. |
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Re: NTPA
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Just Sayin
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Good points Jake. I do feel numbers are somewhat down in pulling due to, if anything, the economic effects of 2021 with many businesses getting hurt (and still being hurt). Motor sports as a whole are and have been taking it on the chin for quite some time. There’s dozens of reasons to point to - from electronic devices, family outdoor activities, climate change/tree huggers, corporations stepping away with their dollars, etc. Just the shear expense of running a pulling operation, at any level, is driving some away.
The NTPA continues to shoot itself in the foot as an organization. You have to see that numbers are up in PPL, and some of those pullers have been a part of NTPA pulling for years. Can you blame them? Of course not. The thought process should be something along the lines of - Do I support this leadership with my attendance (as a puller). Because if numbers are good in the classes at any given event….,then why change? I think some (just thinking for myself out loud) have said we’re tired of waiting for change. I just hope leadership sees the light sooner rather than later. |
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Re: NTPA
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Registered: 04/04/2008 Posts: 1,522 |
But I've never paid walking thru the door of a restaurant, always on the way out,big difference |
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Re: NTPA
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Moderator Registered: 03/25/2008 Posts: 1,446 |
Interesting analog! Dick Morgan www.PULLOFF.com Independent Pulling News |
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Re: NTPA
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Greg k
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I have paid on way in at many restaurants. Mcdonalds for one. |
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Re: NTPA
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Moderator Registered: 03/19/2018 Posts: 664 |
For this equivalency to work the menu at this fictional restaraunt would have to be quite vague. A menu says exactly what is on your salad, what the entree and sides will be. A (I'll expand this) motorsports event offers classes. No idea who will, for what ever reason, will populate it. So the menu for this would just simply offer:
Salad $8 Sandwiches $10 Chicken $9 Beef $10 Pizza $7 Seafood $11 The point is, until you get the entry sheet, you have no idea what the ingredients are. If you want to introduce pricing equivalencies for that, good luck. You'll need it. The inputs simply can't be controlled in this environment. Value for ticket money will always be speculative and it isn't just pulling. It's a built in and a manufactured problem in my mind. It's a calculated gamble any fan of any race takes at any event worldwide since forever. Sometimes you buy in a dud, sometimes you buy in a barnburner. Dick, your social media point is spot on. If I come on here and air my thoughts, I'm whiny, but I'm supposed to have a spine and not care who I offend. Well, someone is bound to be offended by my thoughts, so which is it? What are we talking about again??? CP |
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Re: NTPA
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Lived it
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Since the early to mid ‘90’s the NTPA switched from a promoter of National level pulling to a collector of hook and membership fees. When the sponsorship money dried up the model changed. I grew up with the NTPA, everyone in the ‘80’s and ‘90’s knew the management was awful yet it was protected. If the sport ever leaves the county fair side show level it will be the PPL that takes it there and it should have never been like that. The only thing the NTPA offers today at the National level is a few large legacy events and the diesel SS. |
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Re: NTPA
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Not a PPL lover
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I will start by saying they both have problems. But with that being said the PPL is a bigger joke than anti-PA and here’s my list why they never have a crowd they cannot build a track Fort recovery is a perfect example if you’re not a champions Pulling unit they don’t care if you’re there or not they are their own little click of rich people they’re going to ruin the sport before to NTPA does. And this stuff you guys keep saying NTPA is going backwards they’ve had some very very good crowds at all the places they Have been. P.s PPL website is a total joke they cannot get results points anything within two weeks of the pull NTPA their website is 100 times better. |
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Re: NTPA
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Fan2
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So because Berg is saving his equipment for MOD classes for both circuits, and Purser is running a limited schedule, with neither hooking Unlimited at Tomah, means BG should change Organizations? Can't follow that!
You failed to mention Billy Biers building NEW for THE UNLIMITED class! Personally can't wait to see him hook in Rockwell in a couple weeks! As for the "decent unlimited hooks and then very poor runs", I have changed my view a little on the 300"-320' track for this class. When the winning distance is 321", it makes it hard for them to put on a good show unless they have a very good track. Sled setting can ruin a class, and unfortunately it has ruined a few Unlimited classes I've been to the last few years. They let all the other classes run, then load the Unlimited sled so heavy they can't even get it moving. It also tears up a lot of parts for the pullers. It also was the first hook of the year (really 2 years) for them so that can be an issue too. |
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Re: NTPA
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Greg k
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Joe went 321, Billy 301 and Mark up 299 on Friday unlimited. Next was 277 and down from there. 20 ft between 1 and 2, 20 ft between 2 and 3. Is that a competitive class ? |
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Re: NTPA
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Fan 2
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You may want to relook at the results and check your math on 2nd and 3rd!! It was 6 inches NOT 20 feet! And for Eder to put 20 feet on second is not all that surprising the way he's been hooking last couple years. Actually it's not all that uncommon in any mod class if you look at the results. Even in ppl with all the 4 hemi cookie cutters the winner is often way ahead if 2nd, so what's your point? Is that ppl's fault like you blame NTPA for everything? |
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Re: NTPA
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Greg k
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Fan 2, Joe put minimum of 44 ft on 4th place thru 9th place. You might even see how that is not real competitive. Remove your rose colored glasses. The NTPA unlimited class is not the stalwart it once was. |
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Re: NTPA
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Fan 2
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Love how you condemn the Unlimited class on 1 hook. Have you checked the ppl results for the Mod class? 9th place is 50 feet back, Joe put 50 feet or more on 2nd at Enderle! So What? He made a great pass! Often in any Mod class the winner is a considerable distance ahead of the rest. So what? The Unlimited class is considerably harder to get hooked to the track than the Mod class. If you doubt it ask Boyd's the difference in the 8'71's and the Screws! They made some monster passes and a lot of not so good ones. It's a whole different game, so the sled setting can kill the class when it's too heavy for the track. There are a lot of rough rides and a lot of torn up equipment, and quite frankly it's not easy for them to put on a good show. On a good track with the right sled setting there is no show like it in pulling! |
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Re: NTPA
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Registered: 10/18/2011 Posts: 262 |
Bowling Green National Tractor Pulling Championships really don't need NTPA or PPL organizations. If they have a stand alone pull and "Raise The Purse" Pullers will still come. |
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Re: NTPA, Boyd screw blower question
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Questioner
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So, Boyd's built a tractor with screw blowers, that are only legal to use with NTPA in the unlimited class.
AND they knew NHRA has an overdrive limit on screw blowers, and they also know the reason. THEN they act all pissed off when NTPA uses NHRA overdrive limits ??? Um, can't say I'm sorry. I do wish they still pulled NTPA, but there are already plenty of grown ups acting like spoiled brats,,, See the thread about fuel tests in Light PS. |
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Re: NTPA, Boyd screw blower question
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Dear questioner,
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Kind of an unintelligent way to look at it isn’t it? Maybe NTPA had it wrong for example they had a rule allowing screw blowers with no limits. Tractors were built within rules. Rules are changed, money is wasted. Wouldn’t the more intelligent way to do it be research the screw blower concerns and set a known standard prior to implementation of rules??? Ntpa’s light pro fuel debacle is a direct result of a piss poor fuel rule and testing system |
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Re: NTPA
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Registered: 04/04/2008 Posts: 630 |
Dear Questioner,
I have been one having to change the overdrive on my blowers twice ( because the Hemi's were winning too much) since I've been pulling NTPA. Was it a big deal...no I simply changed my bottom blower pulley changed a fuel pill and went pulling. Boyd's have tested every combination of engine components that you can imagine so trust me when I say that for Shannon and Brian to change the overdrive 20% from 145 to 125 is a no brainer. They are as good as they come when it comes to building and tuning engines, my guess is that the driver would never know the difference. As a side note we were told in our meeting that the manufacturer saw no safty issue with the 145% or 147% whatever it worked out to be. But my question was and still is when is enough enough? The Boyd's have a great team that can work wonders with the machinery so I'm guessing that the issues are much different than the actual rule change but I can't speculate on that,I have a lot of respect for them and their abilities...not my place. BTW yes the blower rules have been in place for many many years its just that no one chose to push the limits until recently, at that point the safety aspect was questioned. Like almost every rule someone pushed things harder and harder until some thought it was unsafe. Would you prefer waiting until a screw blower comes apart and someone gets hurt then change the rule? There have been a LOT of rules created in that way. On a side note my personal big concern is more about tires...BIG power, BIG gear ratios plus one wheeling puts a LOT of stress on tires that I'm not sure are built for that kind of RPM. I blew two steer tires last summer going 65 MPH and after seeing the damage done there I don't ever want to see a 30.5 tire come apart while spinning that fast. S'no Farmer |
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