12:10:19pm, Monday, April 29, 2024
|
Let's try this payout questions again
|
Registered: 08/22/2019 Posts: 84 |
I took about 2 seconds for the question I asked to get turned into a "how rodeos do it better" and "we need sponsorship money". I was trying to ask a serious question. So I am going to try this again.
There has been multiple people that advertise an event on here with the payout for that event. Then others come on and talk about how good or bad they feel the payout is. So my question is, if someone is to host an event, what should the payout be for each class(Pro, Limited Pro, Limited Pro Diesel Trucks, Hotfarm, LLSS, Antique, Garden Tractor, Mini Rod, etc)? How far back should they payout? If someone is planning on hosting an event in 2023 and wanting to add to their event, what are they looking at for payout? This isn't to see what organization you think you should get. Example, If you own a Limited Pro, how much payout would it take for you to get interested in going to an event? |
|
Re: Let's try this payout questions again
|
Registered: 04/04/2008 Posts: 1,522 |
Adopting the current payout of an established organization would surely work.its a proven thing. |
|
Re: Let's try this payout questions again
|
$
|
100%, The last State meeting I attended, it was made very clear, do not ask for any increases.
It could result, in your class not getting booked. |
|
Re: Let's try this payout questions again
|
IH856
|
In others words. Spend your hard earned money and your time and get nothing in return and like it. What a joke if i was told that i would gladly boycott that organization untill they decided to pay better. If enough people stand up and demand better it can be achieved. If everyone keeps doing this for nothing then you get what you deserve. |
|
Re: Let's try this payout questions again
|
$
|
Good luck with that.
The pull will just get replaced; the only question is with what? |
|
Re: Let's try this payout questions again
|
Registered: 08/22/2019 Posts: 84 |
OMG, that didn't take long to de-rail. I should have just put "New LLSS component class" as the subject and see what happened. Holy crap. I can get plenty of guys to complain about terrible payout and how things are being done wrong. But yet, I have only had 1 person give any kind of numbers. If you come on here and complain about bad payouts and organizations doing things wrong, then let everyone know what you want. 2023 pulls are being planned. Now is when promoters are trying to figure out what classes and how much. |
|
Re: Let's try this payout questions again
|
$
|
Call the organizations, and take bids. Pay out, is there deal.
The town, pays for the package. Tech crew/announcer/sled and scale/insurance. All the classes, have different prices. |
|
Re: Let's try this payout questions again
|
Registered: 04/13/2014 Posts: 405 |
I pull 5-6mph 10-11k pure farm style classes at local fairs. First place is usually $100-$150 or so. Generally 3-5 spots are paid. These numbers are good enough for me to keep going back. I understand I’m way low on the totem pole of pulling, but it’s nice to compete for a little fuel money. |
|
Re: Let's try this payout questions again
|
Registered: 10/30/2018 Posts: 749 |
Tractor pulls are just something to fill time at the hometown county fair that will also become a thing of the past sorry to say so feel lucky its not just a ribbon Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/06/2022 01:27PM by Dick Morgan. |
|
Re: Let's try this payout questions again
|
Registered: 04/13/2014 Posts: 405 |
I'm very appreciative of the money I receive and will keep pulling till they no longer have them. I can't afford to run high dollar tractors but I love the sport and try to support by pulling, spectating, and buying merchandise as much as possible. |
|
Re: Let's try this payout questions again
|
Registered: 07/17/2019 Posts: 18 |
For antiques, $100 first place is a "good, above average" payout. At that rate if we win we can at least cover the fuel in the pickup to get there and back. Do I want them to be higher? Absolutely but I also understand that antiques are not a spectator sport. This is a hobby, how much prize money is there at the local RZR drive around? |
|
Re: Let's try this payout questions again
|
4x4 Puller
|
Yes the payouts out pulls sometimes aren't enough I know the class I pull depends on the orginazation you pull with one pays back 8 spots where the other pays back 12 but the one paying back 8 spots is a little more to the top trucks. My problem is being the other class that is larger cubic inch trucks get less of a purse paid out 8 spots along with us paying $175.00-$225.00 to be members of the one orginization then still having to pay gate fees and hook fees at events. Honestly how is that right for the pullers who are there to bring the event together. If promotoers or organizations don't have the pullers they don't have a show. I pull for fun cause I enjoy it points don't matter to me I just enjoy the fellowship and friends of which some are better family then my own family. Your not gonna get rich in any motorsports but if you enjoy it thats what matters. Ive been in and around pulling for over 20 years and seen alot of trucks and tractors come and go in our area. How you treat the pullers also has alot to do with it as well. |
|
Re: Let's try this payout questions again
|
$
|
Pullers getting charged at gate, is their own fault, (sneaking friends and family into the Fairs, is the root cause). |
|
Re: Let's try this payout questions again
|
ive had to pay after showing my NTPA licence. Some places are ruthless. |
|
Re: Let's try this payout questions again
|
4x4 Puller
|
I've also showed my membership cards at gates to events and still been charged as well to get in as well as hook. The ones that really get me are the fairs where they charge you for fair admission and then for entry into the event pit area. I've gotten to the point events like that only get attended once.
This sport is a fun sport and I enjoy it very much but some of these organizations and promotors try to run it as an entertainment business and it isn't. When you go to a pull and pretty much know the class finishing order before the trucks or tractors are off the haulers that's an entertainment business not a truck and tractor pull. |
|
Re: Let's try this payout questions again
|
$
|
No crowd = no sponsors = no pull. 100% an entertainment business. Pulls can and have been replaces, with a single phone call. |
|
Re: Let's try this payout questions again
|
Posts: 513 |
Pulling is 100% an entertainment business. Every pull you go to outside of your literal backyard hooked to your tractor for a test pull is put on for entertainment purposes. To think otherwise is being delusional.
Fairs and promoters can make 1 phone call, like mentioned above, and replace a pull with a whole host of other options, and most of the time for much less work and possibly for less money too. I don't know what the correct payout is, our club has been trying to raise class purses since I became involved back in 2015 ish. Memberships, classes and the amount of pulls have increased dramatically since then. Promoters/fairs complain about prices every year, and they always will. Its a fine line an organization has to walk. To give a cost comparison, our fair just got pricing for a monster truck show, 2 trucks and 1 ride truck was over $15k. 6 trucks was over $35k. Bigfoot truck was an additional $7500 just to make one of the trucks a Bigfoot truck.. I think higher purses will come once we figure out a better way to improve the quality of the show. Not take 5 minutes between hooks or drag out the pull till 2am, have a lively and knowledgeable announcer(s), incorporate music, showcase different vehicles/drivers, etc. Got to make it a show, make people want to come who wouldn't normally come, increase the income for the promoter and you can ask for higher payouts. --- 
|
|
Re: Let's try this payout questions again
|
Fan 2
|
Actually it's both. It's a show for the fans, and competition for the pullers.
From my perspective as a fan I don't need music and a bunch of noise added as there is enough of that already. Most announcers talk too much for me! lol If the competition and quality of equipment is good, the show is good. Extra noise doesn't compensate for lack of either. As for purse, I'm not sure $20,000 to win would justify what it costs to run Unlimited!! |
|
Re: Let's try this payout questions again
|
Tomah winner
|
One thing I question that I need answers to. With some people saying pullers don't need entry fees, that is the question I have. I know that fair boards pay some good money to the association to bring in their competition-pulling vehicles. So, besides the general admission of the spectators, how do the fairs earn the money back that they spent on the association, plus other fair needs? Does the entry fee go to the fair or the association? It confuses me because if it goes to the fair, I think it's fine. If it goes to the association, then that is where it is wrong. I am aware that most of the fairs will spend more than they earn, but how does it get back to where it started? |
|
Re: Let's try this payout questions again
|
Registered: 08/22/2019 Posts: 84 |
Okay, a little off my own topic but to Ryan68, I agree with you 100%. You are getting paid to put on a show. With better shows, we will hopefully see better payouts. I am hoping to talk to you about Central City again.
To Supersquirter, the classes I listed are just random classes I thought of while typing. I am just trying to get some numbers or answers. To Jake, I agree on how far to pay back, as long as it works. I am not talking about trying to take away from any organization. Last year I was approached by a guy that wanted to know if there class was coming back to a show I help with. I said we would love to have them. Then he stated that the payout was going to have to be better then prior. When asked what it would take, I could never get an answer. It was always, "I don't know" and "do the best you can". I asked other pullers and got very few answers. With the exception of a ProStock Diesel Truck puller who told me what they look for when going to an event. I got very little. |
|
Re: Let's try this payout questions again
|
Small Club
|
We are a small club that puts on 14-15 events a year. Our show costs a county fair or town celebration about $4000. We feel like we fill a niche for a fair/town that wants pulling but cannot afford a $14000 PPL show or a $20000 NTPA show.
Farm Stock, Improved Farm, and a Hot Farm class. 60-70 hooks per show. We put on a good show if you are a fan of pulling but true pulling fans seem to be getting less and less. Question is: what can we do to add entertainment to our show to appeal to all fair goers and help fairs draw better crowds? Any ideas are appreciated. |
|
Fairs don’t have as many options as you think!
|
Registered: 01/07/2022 Posts: 102 |
I say this as someone who has served on my local county fair board. A lot of you point to music acts as other options and that’s not just realistic. To bring a mid-major country act in you are looking at a minimum in most cases of $50,000 just to book the artist. Then those artists have expectations as to what you will provide them. Stage, sound, a lot of them have meal requirements for themselves and their roadies and the list goes on. It doesn’t take long to wrap up $75,000 in a concert real quick. If there were more options available to county fairs they would be booking them but they don’t! The ones that can afford it will most likely run a RN or State pull and if they can’t afford that they will run something like Buckeye Mod and if they can’t afford that they will run a brush pull. The lack of respect shown to pullers is mind boggling! You have guys bringing in a tractor and equipment in the range of $250,000 on up depending on the class. You’re not going to charge Craig Morgan and his roadies to get into the fair because he is your entertainment and needs those people to put on your show. Well pullers and the crew they bring are your entertainment, for pullers it’s competition for fairs we are your entertainment. Asking for respect and our crew to get in is not unreasonable. I agree with Jake this should be spelled out in all contracts. With some sanctioning bodies it is and some will refund you at the entry trailer if you are charged to get in. There are very few cheaper options available to fairs outside of demo derby, rodeo, motorcross etc. some fairs have chosen to go that route and that’s fine by me because I also believe less is more. Fewer hooks will result in better numbers. Then supply and demand comes into play. If you raise the purse fewer fairs will be able to afford it, but the ones that do will have kick a$$ shows. Right now especially in Ohio the market is over saturated with pulling. Things have changed but there was a point in time where London, Wilmington, Washington Court House, and Hilliard all had NTPA RN events. 4 hooks in 7 days and the events within 20-45 minutes of each other. All running the same classes. While the COVID year is a microcosm, the year of COVID only Wilmington had an event. They had phenomenal numbers in participants and crowd. Less is more! Raise the purses! Now, raise to what? If you listen to “Let’s Grow Pulling” and the interview with the Arfons family you would know in the 80’s they were getting $3500 to win. I would raise RN purses to $8000 a class at minimum. The fall out will be you will lose some events and some fairs will only book 3 classes instead of 5. This will give pullers more time to wrench and have their equipment in tip top shape for every pull and instead of having 5 classes with 6-8 you will get 3 classes with 12 plus and guys running balls to the wall. |
|
Re: Let's try this payout questions again
|
Registered: 04/03/2016 Posts: 772 |
I am not sure what the payout should be for each class. My opinion is that each class should be paid 10 places back. The thing about this is what rules will you use in each class that you mentioned? I agree with Todd(patches)that adopting the payout of an established org. should work. But I would want to know the rules of each class first if you are not using an established org. before I would commit to come. Now that is just my opinion and not saying or expecting anyone to agree with it. |
|
Re: Let's try this payout questions again
|
HP
|
The race car guys are who messed the pit pass deal.
EVERY person in the pits buys a pit pass. Has been that way for over 40 years. So, every place with a race track EXPECTS everyone to pay. |
|
Re: Let's try this payout questions again
|
Registered: 03/25/2008 Posts: 2,526 |
Pullers paying to get into events... it should NEVER EVER happen. NEVER. Every organization should have clear wording in the contract that states that pullers will not pay a gate fee to the pull or the fair and will receive X number of free passes per competition vehicle they're hauling. This is so easily solved in a contract. If there's any issue at the gate it should be quickly corrected by the President of the club and the promotor.
As for payout... my question is what's best for the show, to pay a larger percentage to the winners or to pay down further places? That is to say regardless of what the total purse is, is there a percentage structure that makes the most sense. For example: 1st = 40% 2nd = 30% 3rd = 15% 4th = 10% 5th = 5% or would it be better to: 1st = 25% 2nd = 18% 3rd = 14% 4th = 12% 5th = 10% 6th = 8% 7th = 6% 8th = 4% 9th = 2% 10th = 1% What type of payout structure encourages pullers to show up and gives fans the best show? Jake Morgan Owner, PULLOFF.COM Independent Pulling News This page is a free service. The cost is covered out of my pocket. It takes a great deal of time and a fair amount of money to keep this website going. Donations for: photos, classified ads, forum discussion, etc... are appreciated. Side Note: We are no longer accepting PayPal donations. They have changed their terms of service and stated they would fine PayPal users for spreading "misinformation" and "hate, violence, racial or other forms of intolerance that is discriminatory". PayPal did not provide definitions for some of these vague terms. Woke corporate policies regarding "misinformation" could result in an automatic fine of $2,500 which would have been removed directly from the customer’s PayPal account. PayPal did backdown from some of their policies but quietly implemented portions of them in later terms of service. A financial institute has no right to monitor social media accounts or speech. This is unacceptable and I'll no longer do business with PayPal. |
|
Re: Let's try this payout questions again
|
$
|
The contract (gate) swings both ways.
Everyone pays at the gate, or they don't get hired. Abuse by the pullers, is what brought this to the table. 2 per hook is 2, not 4 to 7. |
|
Re: Let's try this payout questions again
|
Registered: 03/25/2008 Posts: 2,526 |
Yes, some pullers abused the rule... that's why it needs to be in the contract. The contract protects both parties and should make it clear. The entertainers should not have to pay at an event where they entertain. EVER. It's just basic logic. There should be a set number of free passes per pulling vehicle (not per hauler). Jake Morgan Owner, PULLOFF.COM Independent Pulling News This page is a free service. The cost is covered out of my pocket. It takes a great deal of time and a fair amount of money to keep this website going. Donations for: photos, classified ads, forum discussion, etc... are appreciated. Side Note: We are no longer accepting PayPal donations. They have changed their terms of service and stated they would fine PayPal users for spreading "misinformation" and "hate, violence, racial or other forms of intolerance that is discriminatory". PayPal did not provide definitions for some of these vague terms. Woke corporate policies regarding "misinformation" could result in an automatic fine of $2,500 which would have been removed directly from the customer’s PayPal account. PayPal did backdown from some of their policies but quietly implemented portions of them in later terms of service. A financial institute has no right to monitor social media accounts or speech. This is unacceptable and I'll no longer do business with PayPal. |
|
Re: Let's try this payout questions again
|
$
|
Well, we are going to have to agree to disagree.
A few bad apples, as they say. |
|
Re: Let's try this payout questions again
|
Tomah winner
|
Kind of disagree with that statement. Yes, each pulling vehicle should get a number of free passes, but they should be HOT passes, not some hot and some cold. Also, what sucks with the NTPA right now is that they are trying to stop selling passes in totality at their events. I live in Iowa. It might be different out east or out west. If somebody who is of driving ability, who has the money, who is willing to sign the liability waiver and abide by the rules written out in the waiver, SHOULD BE GIVEN THE RIGHT TO PAY FOR A PIT PASS! Most people who buy these passes don't go on the track, so what's the problem? |
|
Re: Let's try this payout questions again
|
Registered: 03/25/2008 Posts: 2,526 |
Personally I don't think there should be closed pits at any event. You can go to the largest pull in the world (Bowling Green) and wander around in the pits. You should be able to wander around in the pits at EVERY event. If BG can do it I'm sure every regional/state/brush pull can manage to do the same. Part of the appeal of the sport to me when I was a kid was being able to go in the pits with my dad and see the tractors up close. (I know somebody will say insurance blah blah blah but other events seem to get it done so maybe it's time to do some insurance shopping).
As for wrist bands to get on the track, I don't see why you'd need more than two per competition vehicle. If I were in charge I'd probably say 4-5 people per vehicle per event and that includes two wrist bands. That seems fair to me. Jake Morgan Owner, PULLOFF.COM Independent Pulling News This page is a free service. The cost is covered out of my pocket. It takes a great deal of time and a fair amount of money to keep this website going. Donations for: photos, classified ads, forum discussion, etc... are appreciated. Side Note: We are no longer accepting PayPal donations. They have changed their terms of service and stated they would fine PayPal users for spreading "misinformation" and "hate, violence, racial or other forms of intolerance that is discriminatory". PayPal did not provide definitions for some of these vague terms. Woke corporate policies regarding "misinformation" could result in an automatic fine of $2,500 which would have been removed directly from the customer’s PayPal account. PayPal did backdown from some of their policies but quietly implemented portions of them in later terms of service. A financial institute has no right to monitor social media accounts or speech. This is unacceptable and I'll no longer do business with PayPal. |
|
Re: Let's try this payout questions again
|
Registered: 04/03/2016 Posts: 772 |
I have to disagree because I am sure that when you were a kid your dad made sure that you didn't stand behind any vehicle that was being unloaded at that time. Today, people don't care about their children. But yet now, I have to look when I am unloading mine after driving to a state pull for 2 hours. I will yell CLEAR when I am unloading but that doesn't seem to matter. Children are still behind us as are their parents and none of them pay attention. After I pull and get ready to load, I have to tell people to clear our trailer because the cable that we winch it in with could break. They get mad because they are drinking beer and having a good time against our trailer and I have no idea who they are. But if my winch cable should happen to break and hit one of them in the head while their child that is not being supervised is behind us and I run over them accidently, it will be my fault. |
|
Re: Let's try this payout questions again
|
$
|
All true,
Two points, 1st. Selling (pit passes) over and above the Fairgrounds admission, is fast becoming an additional revenue stream, locally. (I have seen up to $10 over grandstand price, to sit on the pit side.) 2nd. Pit pass or not, you will always be held responsible for your actions. . |
|
Re: Let's try this payout questions again
|
Fan 2
|
2 is hardly enough when the driver of the vehicle gets 1, there is a support vehicle that needs to be attended to, 3,4 or 5 motors to get started, and someone to help them get backed up to the sled in many cases. Also if the vehicle runs multiple classes (Ricky Rose) there needs to be consideration for additional passes at those events due to the quick turnaround to get them back on the track for the next session. It takes A LOT of work to get that done even if there is no breakage from the previous session. |
|
Re: Let's try this payout questions again
|
Tomah winner
|
I don't mean wrist bands for getting ON the track, I mean to go in the pits and get UP CLOSE to the track. EX. We tried to buy wristbands at Decorah, Iowa, for a Region III NTPA pull. They would not sell them to us because we were not "officially" with a competition vehicle or member. We then convinced a driver who did not have crew members with him to let us get his extra passes. (We did pay him back by the way.) If he didn't do this for us, then they would have made us go sit in the stands, and we all know fair admission is WAY overpriced these days. Plus, my uncle has a pulling tractor, but he was pulling at a Grand National event at the time. In the past, when we still had region 5, and even a couple years before, this was never an issue. Like I said in an earlier post, If we pay the money, sign the waiver, and abide by the waiver rules, why can't we buy a pit pass? I'm sure others who read this feel the same way. |
|
Re: Let's try this payout questions again
|
Registered: 08/27/2019 Posts: 212 |
I like to get into the pits at a pull like everyone else. Always look forward to walking around and looking at the equipment , and if not allowed to , meaning I can't even by a pit pass, which I'm willing to pay for , unless it's an ungodly amount, I won't be back As for signing a waiver, what good does that do or mean? It's a meaning less peice of paper that doesn't mean a thing.....doesn't mean someone can't try to sue anyway. |
|
Re: Let's try this payout questions again
|
Registered: 04/03/2016 Posts: 772 |
|
|
Re: Let's try this payout questions again
|
Registered: 03/25/2008 Posts: 2,526 |
I know, that's why I said there should be no closed pits. You shouldn't need a special pass to walk the pits or get close to the track. The only special pass anyone should need it to get on the track (or at the starting line staging area). I know some events have closed pits or charge for passes... they shouldn't. Plain and simple. As for the number of event passes or track passes... I don't really care if it's: 2 or 3 track passes or if it's 3, 4, 5 passes to get into the events with each competition vehicle. I don't really care about the exact numbers, I'm simply saying that it needs to be in the contract and it needs to be clearly worded. Each organization should discuss that with the competitors and make it a policy that's in EVERY contract. Jake Morgan Owner, PULLOFF.COM Independent Pulling News This page is a free service. The cost is covered out of my pocket. It takes a great deal of time and a fair amount of money to keep this website going. Donations for: photos, classified ads, forum discussion, etc... are appreciated. Side Note: We are no longer accepting PayPal donations. They have changed their terms of service and stated they would fine PayPal users for spreading "misinformation" and "hate, violence, racial or other forms of intolerance that is discriminatory". PayPal did not provide definitions for some of these vague terms. Woke corporate policies regarding "misinformation" could result in an automatic fine of $2,500 which would have been removed directly from the customer’s PayPal account. PayPal did backdown from some of their policies but quietly implemented portions of them in later terms of service. A financial institute has no right to monitor social media accounts or speech. This is unacceptable and I'll no longer do business with PayPal. |
|
Re: Let's try this payout questions again
|
Moderator Registered: 03/19/2018 Posts: 664 |
100% agree Jake. Anyone restricting pit access is doing it for one reason only, raising money. Liability has NOTHING to do with it. If liability is a concern, then those concerned about it should never set foot on a dragstrip's property. Even at an NHRA National a General Admission ticket puts me anywhere on the property I care to go except 3 places: 1. a seat in the reserved grandstands like anywhere else on Earth with reserved grandstands 2. a pit of a racer unless invited by them (and many are very welcoming all the way to the top levels) & 3. the starting line and track itself.
CP |
|
Re: Let's try this payout questions again
|
Registered: 04/10/2011 Posts: 183 |
Just a little light from my small corner of WI as i feel we have evolved to a good system.
We run pulling weekend event in Cuba City WI. Originally a brush show on Friday evening with local classes and Tri-state pullers on Saturday. General admission was $8 and pit passes were $10 per event (children free). Brush show always had the $20 entry fee and received 2 free pit passes. Tristate pullers had their association passes and rest of attendance followed the admission/pit pass purchase order. Fast forward a few years- Admission was updated to $10(children free) & go wherever you like; stands side or pit side. Pullers still had a $20 entry fee and were provided 2 passes per entry. ECI pullers were brough into combination with the local brush classes as a shared event. ECI membership passes were honored for entry and no fees charged as they were a hired organization. Hence the problem of ECI association passes come into play. Upon arrival Members showed their passes and gain free entry at admission gates. Many members who were not participating or were participating but not in a ECI sanctioned class. Keep in mind that 100% of the admission money is used to cover event costs and to give back to the local vendors (Lions club, FFA, Knights of Columbus, 4H, etc) 100% entry money goes back into the class purse money per entry. Association members attending and not pulling but deeming free entry hurt our show. The solution- EVERYONE PAYS $10 admission upon entry to the event (children free); pullers (local and association), spectators, family, etc.! There is no longer an entry fee charged at the sign in table. This has sped up registration as there is no longer the need of $ to be exchanged during registration. ALL ENTRIES for the sanctioned ECI membership classes are handed a prepacked envelope with $20 inside. This $20 covers the gate admission ECI Members paid upon arrival as ECI members are provided 2 passes per registered machine via ECI pulling association. The entry fee purse money is recouped and added to the class payouts by simply multiplying the number of entries by $20 and subtracting this from the admission gate. Example: 114 entrees x $20 = $2,280 subtracted from admission gate and added to respected class purses. Summary - Membership passes are not abused. Entry fee purse money is retained and paid back to the pullers. Everyone is permitted to any portion of the viewing area and experience they so choose. Money is collected at single locations (less staff and congestion) |
|
Re: Let's try this payout questions again
|
Posts: 1,161 |
That's actually a very clever way of doing it. Kudos to your team for being able to come up with that idea! |
|
Re: Let's try this payout questions again
|
HP
|
Shouldn't the pit pass discussion be put in it's own thread?
And then delete any post in this thread not about purse money, just to clean it up for the OP. You know, for clarity. |
Website Statistics
Global: Topics: 38,646, Posts: 229,713, Members: 3,325.
This forum: Topics: 37,067, Posts: 225,904.
Global: Topics: 38,646, Posts: 229,713, Members: 3,325.
This forum: Topics: 37,067, Posts: 225,904.
Our newest member JD_8520
