466 Hot Farm East Coast Pro Puller accident last night August 12, 2023 01:46AM
Prayers needed for the family of this youg lady , puller that was involved, and everyone that was involved at last night pull .


[www.dailyitem.com]

Re: 466 Hot Farm East Coast Pro Puller accident last night August 12, 2023 05:07AM
That's terrible new. Prayers for her family and all those involved.



Jake Morgan
Owner, PULLOFF.COM
Independent Pulling News



This page is a free service. The cost is covered out of my pocket. It takes a great deal of time and a fair amount of money to keep this website going. Donations for: photos, classified ads, forum discussion, etc... are appreciated.

Side Note: We are no longer accepting PayPal donations. They have changed their terms of service and stated they would fine PayPal users for spreading "misinformation" and "hate, violence, racial or other forms of intolerance that is discriminatory". PayPal did not provide definitions for some of these vague terms. Woke corporate policies regarding "misinformation" could result in an automatic fine of $2,500 which would have been removed directly from the customer’s PayPal account. PayPal did backdown from some of their policies but quietly implemented portions of them in later terms of service. A financial institute has no right to monitor social media accounts or speech. This is unacceptable and I'll no longer do business with PayPal.

Re: 466 Hot Farm East Coast Pro Puller accident last night August 13, 2023 12:50AM
The pull was East Coast Series sanctioned with Pro Pullers, so the tractor should be certified and insured.

Re: 466 Hot Farm East Coast Pro Puller accident last night August 13, 2023 06:20AM
Our concerns should be on the spectators, friends, and family involved, and not a tractor..

Re: 466 Hot Farm East Coast Pro Puller accident last night August 13, 2023 06:39AM
Maybe not so much the tractor, but the driver definately needs prayers too…I can’t imagine how he is feeling. Its a freak accident

Re: 466 Hot Farm East Coast Pro Puller accident last night August 13, 2023 08:36AM
There was also a Snyder county class also. So is that class covered by pro pulling insurance? This is not a good thing to happen! I am sure the lawyers will get in there and make a mess of everything!

Re: 466 Hot Farm East Coast Pro Puller accident last night August 14, 2023 03:13AM
Not sure why Joey is getting thrown under buss here to my knowledge nothing like this has happened in pulling for a long time if ever so nobody truly knows what's going to happen from here but I would hope that your concerns should be on this family and the puller instead of trashing a person, club or organization

FURTHERMORE if you haven't realized this EVERYONE who is involved in pulling just got their neck placed on the chopping block so let's concentrate on how to prevent anything like this ever happening again instead of throwing blame

Prayers to the family and all involved

Re: 466 Hot Farm East Coast Pro Puller accident last night August 14, 2023 03:16AM
I hope all Pullers take very seriously safety and making sure your equipment is in Tip top shape and all the required safety equipment is in place and good shape and used as intended. Just imagine if this was your Daughter or Wife, or any family member for that matter. What we all Love to do is very extreme, and yes dangerous, not only to Us but those attending as well.

BB

Re: 466 Hot Farm East Coast Pro Puller accident last night August 14, 2023 04:02AM
If I read this right, the exhaust wheel exited the exhaust pipe? Did it have cross bolts? If so, do they need to cover more area ?

Re: 466 Hot Farm East Coast Pro Puller accident last night August 14, 2023 04:31AM
Think of the heat those bolts take each pass...maybe the cross bolts need to be threaded in so the cross bolts can be easy checked and replaced as needed

Re: 466 Hot Farm East Coast Pro Puller accident last night August 14, 2023 05:11AM
Quote
Observer
Think of the heat those bolts take each pass...maybe the cross bolts need to be threaded in so the cross bolts can be easy checked and replaced as needed

it's totally idiotic to rely on a V-band clamp to hold a failed turbine wheel inside the housing. Any 2nd grader could break that clamp bolt easily with a few whacks of a hammer. Can you imagine the force a broken shaft of a 3...4...5...or 6.. inch wheel will apply on that clamp ?

On a side note EVERY exhaust elbow should be required to be a Sch.10 Stainless.............

Re: 466 Hot Farm East Coast Pro Puller accident last night August 14, 2023 01:14PM
First off ,Thoughts and prayers to the family. Terrible unfortunate accident

" turbine housing" 2nd grader is bad statement.
Obviously, your not educated on the system ,..and the stainless clamp statement is out of place .

4-5-6 inch exhaust pipes have 2 sets of cross bolts
Mine has 4 ---3/8 grade 8 bolts . Bolted and welded in on the outside.
I have lost turbos before..as have most pullers . The exhaust wheel hits the bolts and slows the velocity .it

There isn't an diesel exhaust pipe out there in a ppl sanctioned pulling class that doesn't have those bolts installed. We are all inspected.
Further more, just so know . There also isn't an exhaust stack elbow that isn't secured under the hood with a pice of steel so it doesn't twist .
In no way shape or form would any exhaust clam hold the pipe from spinning the pipe.
Every puller has to brace the pipe regardless of the clap to hold it.
The cross bolts restrict the exhaust flow and want to twist the pipe. Hence why they all need a brace
If not there would be a lot of melted hoods and paint .

Get your engineering facts straight before you make statements

And any second grader would run around and look under the hood.

This is a very tragic accident , and very unfortunate of what happened.

We as pullers always fear an accident , not on ourselves as we sign up for it.
But for the safety of the fans in the stands .

Re: 466 Hot Farm East Coast Pro Puller accident last night August 15, 2023 12:40AM
Quote
Exhaust pipe
First off ,Thoughts and prayers to the family. Terrible unfortunate accident

" turbine housing" 2nd grader is bad statement.
Obviously, your not educated on the system ,..and the stainless clamp statement is out of place .

4-5-6 inch exhaust pipes have 2 sets of cross bolts
Mine has 4 ---3/8 grade 8 bolts . Bolted and welded in on the outside.
I have lost turbos before..as have most pullers . The exhaust wheel hits the bolts and slows the velocity .it

There isn't an diesel exhaust pipe out there in a ppl sanctioned pulling class that doesn't have those bolts installed. We are all inspected.
Further more, just so know . There also isn't an exhaust stack elbow that isn't secured under the hood with a pice of steel so it doesn't twist .
In no way shape or form would any exhaust clam hold the pipe from spinning the pipe.
Every puller has to brace the pipe regardless of the clap to hold it.
The cross bolts restrict the exhaust flow and want to twist the pipe. Hence why they all need a brace
If not there would be a lot of melted hoods and paint .

Get your engineering facts straight before you make statements

And any second grader would run around and look under the hood.

This is a very tragic accident , and very unfortunate of what happened.

We as pullers always fear an accident , not on ourselves as we sign up for it.
But for the safety of the fans in the stands .



If you remove your "stainless clamp" what holds the cross bolts secure? In other words,..... I'll put this in second grade terminology ,...when the clamp breaks,....does the exhaust elbow just magically stay on the turbine housing? So to sum this up for the kids in the back of the classroom the exhaust wheel will easily exit the housing when the clamp breaks. Class dismissed...........

Re: 466 Hot Farm East Coast Pro Puller accident last night August 15, 2023 01:54AM
I'm not saying it can't happen, but I have yet to see a V band clamp failure. Not only that, how much inertia has been consumed by making that clamp fail?

I seen paper thin exhaust tubing elbows shredded from a wheel trying to exit. I'd be more in line with implementing a spec thickness and material on the exhaust elbows than I would be worrying about whether the v band clamp can be fractured.

Re: 466 Hot Farm East Coast Pro Puller accident last night August 15, 2023 03:40AM
Quote
sigh
I'm not saying it can't happen, but I have yet to see a V band clamp failure. Not only that, how much inertia has been consumed by making that clamp fail?



Apparently enough to kill a spectator,......................

Re: 466 Hot Farm East Coast Pro Puller accident last night August 15, 2023 05:05AM
So there's been an investigation and this was the certified single root cause of the failure? Got it. Thanks.

Re: 466 Hot Farm East Coast Pro Puller accident last night August 15, 2023 09:34AM
Quote
sigh
but I have yet to see a V band clamp failure. Not only that, how much inertia has been consumed by making that clamp fail?
.


I have seen it happen 2 times over a 25 year period. And there was no turbo problem. They just broke. Both happened at the starting line when the boost came on. One of them stopped immediately. The other one kept going and was red flagged, then stopped.

Re: 466 Hot Farm East Coast Pro Puller accident last night August 16, 2023 04:05AM
This accident happened in my area at one of our local fairs. Some of the track staff and fair staff are my friends. The look on there faces Friday night told quite a story. We need to in the future make things safer for the fans but for now lets just focus on thoughts and prayers for the family of the person we lost and all of those involved. We can argue about bolts another day. Thank You

Re: 466 Hot Farm East Coast Pro Puller accident last night August 15, 2023 06:55AM
I'll educate you again on your comments because you don't read correctly.

There is a steel strap that holds the exhaust pipe in place from twisting
It also acts as a securement to the turbine housing
Mine is 3/8 thick by 2" wide...you can't break it .

So all the clamp does is seal and clamp exhaust gases in.

I hope you understand.

And yes .ppl has always had the 4 bolt cross bolt rule also

Nytpa ppl officials check every pull.
I was just inspected in Malone along with kill switches
Those guys do there job

Re: 466 Hot Farm East Coast Pro Puller accident last night August 15, 2023 10:33AM
Quote
Exhaust pipe
I'll educate you again on your comments because you don't read correctly.

There is a steel strap that holds the exhaust pipe in place from twisting
It also acts as a securement to the turbine housing
Mine is 3/8 thick by 2" wide...you can't break it .

Show me on what page in the NTPA/PPL rule book that calls for a secondary support for the exhaust elbow....................there isn't one. Now open your eyes and see that when the shaft breaks and the exhaust wheel hits your almighty cross bolts,.... the only thing keeping that inertia contained is a 1/4 bolt that is spot welded to a V-band fixture.

Re: 466 Hot Farm East Coast Pro Puller accident last night August 15, 2023 12:44PM
You are correct,there is no rule on secondary support


I have blown many 4.1 turbos and never lost a vban clamp.Never!

What I'm telling you, is that even on a 3x3 charger if you get the official paper rule book when you pay the 800$ there is a rule in there on turbo charged engines for 4 cross bolts .
The driver dashboard rule book does not tell it. You go by the rule book that's mailed to you.
Now that we have the 4 cross bolts and vband 1/4" bolt issue sorted out .
Like I said above you are correct it's no a rule the strap


I'm telling you....that the exhaust restriction that those 4 cross bolts put on the diesel exhaust exit. It twists that pipe and you have to strap it.
You will not get hardly lit and the pipe will twist . Anything below
3x3 you might get away without the strap. Obviously alot less turbo and pressure.
If you have ever built and ran a tractor it has to be strapped if you make any power at all.

It will be literally impossible to put 4-1/2" bolts in the exhaust. If so
Everyone will have to run a 6"and up exhaust pipe exposing more area for trash to get out
The restriction is harsh with 2 -3/8" bolts on a 5" pipe .

I don't know the answer . I don't want to disagree with you .
I'm just telling you that the ppl officials are really particular on safety as far as the tractors go .

I really believe this is a tragic accident, and I know none of the facts of who what where when and why .

I know that I feel very safe with the safety rules for the tractors and what I have

Thanks.

Re: 466 Hot Farm East Coast Pro Puller accident last night August 15, 2023 04:24AM
Defiantly a terrible accident and I feel for the families of all involved. I am sure this will result in more safety rules as it should. People attend these events for an enjoyable time out with family and friends and no one should ever think they will be injured or worse. I have always had concerns at some of the events we have pulled at as to how close the spectators sit to the pulling track. (Knox County fair Ohio is one that comes to mind...but there are many others). Maybe safety netting could be a possibility like at speedways? We all need to look at this and not criticize but find solutions in the name of safety and promotion of the sport.

Full Pull Productions makes the first move August 15, 2023 04:40AM
Effective Immediately - Rule Update

All Turbo Charged Engines must meet the following rules in regards to cross bolts in the exhaust pipe.

One set of two(2) ⅜” minimum Grade 5 bolts in the horizontal portion of the exhaust pipe(s) as close to the turbo as possible. Bolts are to be installed at 90 degrees to each other and within one inch of each other. A second set of two ⅜” minimum grade 5 bolts in the horizontal portion of the exhaust pipe(s) with in two(2) inches of the first set of bolts. Bolts are to be installed at 90 degrees to each other and are to be indexed 45 degrees from the first set of bolts.

Any pickup truck that is not licensed for the street is required to have the above bolts.

-via their Facebook post 24min ago

Re: Full Pull Productions makes the first move August 15, 2023 05:07AM
Excellent idea. Glad to hear.

Can't believe they missed that v band clamp problem though. Eye Rolling

NTPA is next August 15, 2023 08:30AM
Attention Turbocharged Engine Competitors

Effective immediately August 15, 2023 all turbocharged engine competitors that currently don’t have the approved Wimer Pro Stock Turbo Exhaust Wheel Cage must have two (2) sets of the Exhaust Cross Bolts. The second set will have to be as close to the exhaust housing as possible. The rule will replace page 78 section 28 Turbochargers subsection c. to read the following.

28. Turbochargers

c. Exhaust Cross Bolts

1) All turbocharged engines must have four (4) 1/2-inch bolts (Grade #5) in horizontal portion of exhaust pipe(s) as close to the turbo as possible. Bolts to be installed 90 degrees to each other, within one inch of each other.

In order to run Bowling Green, OH and the rest of the 2023 season, this must be installed.

Re: NTPA is next August 16, 2023 02:34AM
Just to clarify are they 3/8 or 1/2"' bolts. You've said it both ways. So is the 1/2" an update to your first post?

Re: NTPA is next August 16, 2023 03:38AM
My question is, why don’t they just say 304, 316 or 18-8 stainless steel bolts? Heat erosion won’t affect the stainless steel like it would with a grade 5 or 8, the heat cycles that those bolts go through will anneal them and make them weaker or make them hard and brittle wouldn’t it unlike SS?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/16/2023 12:27PM by IHFarmer07.

Re: NTPA is next August 16, 2023 03:45AM
First post was the FPP change. Second is NTPA which went to 1/2" a couple of years ago. Also, NTPA clarified the change this morning with new info.

https://ntpapull.com/tech-services

Re: NTPA is next August 20, 2023 07:10PM
Should the exhaust elbow be made out of schedule 80?

Re: NTPA is next August 20, 2023 08:45PM
sch80 seems by far too much, but if u like, just take it.
The typically table gives you a thickness of .337 and.375" for 4 and 5" diam sch80 pipe and elbows:
[www.permanentsteel.com]
[www.abtersteel.com]
Since the below mentioned doc (EU pulling rulebook) demand on a thickness of at least .1575" (4mm) for the delicate part that carry the cross bolts, I wouldn't go beefier for the elbow behind that, except some fractions of mills if a standard elbow right off the shelf is somewhere between 4-5mm.

Re: NTPA is next August 16, 2023 03:56AM
The rule in the NTPA is 1/2 inch bolts, has been for some time. Can't speak to other organizations.

Latest update is you can still have just two 1/2 inch bolts as long as they are within 2 inches of the exh housing. If not then you need 4.

I'm glad this is being handled so quickly. It is paramount that we ensure the safety of EVERYONE involved at a truck and tractor pull.

Prayers to the family.
Attachments:
open | download - NTPA.docx (462.2 KB)

Re: Full Pull Productions makes the first move August 16, 2023 07:39AM
I wasn't there and haven't seen the tractor, but my understanding of what happened is not that the wheel went out the stack, but rather out the side? If that's the case, what does putting more cross bolts in do? Nothing, of course. It's just a knee jerk "do something to say we did something" reaction.

Re: Full Pull Productions makes the first move August 16, 2023 07:59AM
Yes I agree everything in pulling seems to be a reaction instead of thinking ahead. I am afraid the lawyers will have a hay day with this. Prayers for the family!

Re: Full Pull Productions makes the first move August 16, 2023 12:17PM
My concern is that if you cross bolt just ahead of the wheel it could actually cause the wheel to blow the housing out. That' what happened I'm told and that came from a person setting next to the person that got hit. At least the bolts further up the pipe allows for some room for the turbine to go. Has any testing been done on the new rule?

Re: Full Pull Productions makes the first move August 16, 2023 10:34PM
Not wanting to change the subject, but reading all this really puts into perspective the true dangers of turbo charged engines I never thought about. I have a friend who races small tire no prep/radial prep races with a small block ford with a huge choo choo on it. nothing at all one like this to the exhaust. and it's a side exit exhaust down by the fender well. there are cars with bull horn exhaust. makes me really think hard about if NHRA has any type of ruling on this subject in like a Pro modified category? if so, does anyone know and care to share?

Re: Full Pull Productions makes the first move August 17, 2023 01:03AM
They do not, but the application for them has them waste-gating above roughly 35lbs of pressure. The turbos are big, but that is about volume of air mass passed. They keep them really low in the duty cycle vs what a diesel will do. Failures are rare as a result. The import guys push them much harder into the 60+ range and do have failures, but again no rule so far as I am aware. For Outlaw Diesel Super Series drag racing, yes there is a crossbolt rule.

CP

Re: Full Pull Productions makes the first move August 16, 2023 12:31PM
ACTUALLY, the cross bolts in subject tractor were about 4" from the housing.
The wheel came out of the housing, ate thru the side of the exhaust pipe, then ate thru the hood .
There have been turbo failures with the Wimmer cage, and keeping the wheel in the housing is a real good idea.

Re: Full Pull Productions makes the first move August 21, 2023 10:22AM
Turbo blankets would solve this.... When The Remedy went boom last year the blanket contained all the parts

Re: Full Pull Productions makes the first move August 21, 2023 11:53AM
How would a blanket keep the wheel from coming out of the exhaust pipe?

Re: 466 Hot Farm East Coast Pro Puller accident last night August 17, 2023 01:37AM
Knox county always worries me. A couple years ago we were let go and was out past the marked track and I finished with the left front wheel about 2 inches from the wall and on the other side of that with feet up on the wall was spectators. I also ran the guy unhooking over the wall and he landed at some people's feet. We mentioned to the Fairboard and nothing was really done about it. Well if you noticed on Saturday night they finally had barriers keeping people 10 feet back from the wall. That was because Friday night a rough truck jumped the wall and ran over one of the fire departments brand new UTVs that was parked in the wall. They were lucky it was thier because people were sitting right behind it.

I didn't like the new fence the Croton installed a few years ago but it would of probably prevent a wheel from getting into the stands.

Re: 466 Hot Farm East Coast Pro Puller accident last night August 16, 2023 11:16PM
[tractorpulling.com]

NTPA Tech might have a look at page 27 - 43 there. We went through this and the next accident waiting to happen is, the wheel shredding through the exhaust pipe and then coming out (we had that happen).



Floating Finish - the German Tractor Pulling Web Show and EU Live Streams: [www.youtube.com]

Re: 466 Hot Farm East Coast Pro Puller accident last night August 17, 2023 04:56AM
You all require shield/cover if I remember correctly. Also, don't you have a bolt and screen on the cold side so the compressor wheel doesn't come out as well? Please share your rules and some photos if you don't mind.

Re: 466 Hot Farm East Coast Pro Puller accident last night August 17, 2023 05:59AM
[tractorpulling.com]
Link to the European rulebook.

Re: 466 Hot Farm East Coast Pro Puller accident last night August 17, 2023 07:21AM
Quote
Mike Allan
You all require shield/cover if I remember correctly. Also, don't you have a bolt and screen on the cold side so the compressor wheel doesn't come out as well? Please share your rules and some photos if you don't mind.

The link I gave is the rulebook Winking
All done after accidents with the cold and hot sides and both wheels in the air / shooting for the flag man...

If you scroll down some here: [www.flickr.com]
You can see how we had to do it on my (limited mod with air restrictors and old S400 turbos) tractor.



Floating Finish - the German Tractor Pulling Web Show and EU Live Streams: [www.youtube.com]



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 08/17/2023 07:24AM by Sascha.

Re: 466 Hot Farm East Coast Pro Puller accident last night August 19, 2023 04:23AM
Thanks for sharing. We're headed there shortly.

Author:

Your Email:


Subject:


Spam prevention:
Please, enter the code that you see below in the input field. This is for blocking bots that try to post this form automatically. If the code is hard to read, then just try to guess it right. If you enter the wrong code, a new image is created and you get another chance to enter it right.
Message:
Website Statistics
Global: Topics: 38,584, Posts: 229,618, Members: 3,320.
This forum: Topics: 37,058, Posts: 225,862.

Our newest member Fechtner Racing