04:02:32pm, Saturday, April 27, 2024
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Should additional roll cage padding be required for 2024?
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Moderator Registered: 07/06/2008 Posts: 1,347 |
Drivers wear fire suits, helmets, are protected with safety equipment, etc.
With some of the rough rides by Andy Korporal and Mr. Miller yesterday, would it be worthy for NTPA, PPL, and Outlaws to require additional padding on rollcages? I don't know if Korporal was knocked out, but it looked like he was for a bit. Even with sfi helmets, seems to me one area of vulnerability is the driver's head banging the rollcage with a rough ride. Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/19/2023 01:25PM by The Original Michael. |
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Re: Should additional roll cage padding be required for 2024?
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Josh
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If we want padding we can add it some people can think for themselves |
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Re: Should additional roll cage padding be required for 2024?
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Prostock
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I think people that don’t do anything other than watch from the stands or there phones need
to suggest more @#$%& for us pullers to buy. It’s not like it’s not already costing a lot. |
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Re: Should additional roll cage padding be required for 2024?
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protection
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Prostock, compared to the cost you have in the tractor, buying a little bit of extra personal safety protection is literally not much of any $$$$.
But apparently, you do not consider your life or any puller, to be worth much. And if you cannot afford that extra personal safety protection, than you better get your tractor listed on the 'for sale' page. |
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Re: Should additional roll cage padding be required for 2024?
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Puller not in the stands
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Just to make you stick your foot in your mouth. As a puller I've asked about this being a requirement for a longtime. We have had padding on for a 10 years or so. I can tell you for a fact that Im glad I've had the padding. The first night out I crashed hard and glad I had it. The times before this i always woke up the next morning and had a huge headace. Since then I haven't had that.
As for the comments about pullers can think for themselves. Kinda sound like Fireball Roberts comment. Pullers are thier own worst enemy and unless they are told they wont do it. |
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Re: Should additional roll cage padding be required for 2024?
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Why not
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Yet another example of a disconnect ending badly |
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Re: Should additional roll cage padding be required for 2024?
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I run a kirkey seat with headrests in my Hot stock open comp , makes it a little difficult backing to the sled but most places use a spotter/ helper backing up anyway , Sfi roll bar padding isn’t really soft anyway and headrests keep your head from wildly whipping side to side in that kind of situation just a thought |
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Re: Should additional roll cage padding be required for 2024?
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Carlsson
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This item needs to provide a minimum of structural stiffness with respect to its thickness. Elsewise it wont transfer any energy at all until its compressed by a ratio of lets say 90-95%. The thicker it is, the softer it may can be. Thinner items need to compensate that by a higher stiffness. Worst case, only a few mills, but already hard as solid plastic or aluminium. Sad thing about that, the effectiveness in force absorption on the target object (head/brain) is better, the longer the compression distance last. From this perspective, a softer and thicker padding will lead to much lower final acce vals than with a harder and thinner padding. Building a 100-120k$ vehicle and complaining about the last 30-40 bucks for some layers of armaflex, thats an attitude, LOL |
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Re: Should additional roll cage padding be required for 2024?
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You missed what I was saying , yes roll bar padding sfi is certainly better then hitting your helmet on a steel roll cage I am very much aware of this fact as I raced for over 20 years , the point of my post was to say I run head rests on my seat which will prevent a drivers head from whipping wildly into the roll cage which covered in padding is certainly better then not being padded but the padding for roll bars is not meant for that it is meant as an extra layer of protection beyond a headrest in the event of a bar being pushed into the driver or a seat failure or other equipment failure it’s better then hitting steel the most important thing is to prevent head movement or or body movement before you have the chance to impact the actual cage and headrests on you seat will keep your head in place at least side to side and therefore prevent your head from hitting the cage , it is certainly a good idea to have a head rest and padding but padding is not as good as head rests I am not discounting padding. I am just saying you can still get injured with a padded roll cage !so therefore it might be smart to put an extra layer of protection between your head and the roll cage because you could still be knocked and injured with your head, impacting Padding so try both, padding alone is not a sufficient preventative to a head injury, keeping the drivers head and body movement more limited in an unplanned situation is !hope this clarifies what I said , we are all here for the love of our sport and no one wants to see anything negative happen to anyone or to our sport and any time |
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Re: Should additional roll cage padding be required for 2024?
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So I would certainly appreciate if you would try and comprehend things first , I am all for safety, I run a nascar style seat with head rests and a good 5 point harness, I feel safety is a very important aspect the most important and I feel headrests are better then padding alone both are the best option so please don’t pull bits of what people post and bend them into what suits you try to understand the context of what people are writing before you start misconstruing posts safely in motorsports is the most important aspect for fans and drivers alike so don’t come at me saying you build a 100,000 $200,000 tractor and don’t care about safety because you have no idea what safety equipment I own and use but I can assure you it’s zero expense spared I’m looking to discuss safety. I felt that sharing that I run a seat with head rests was something that could improve the safety for people in our sport. I know some people run headrests already, but it is a simple solution to hitting your head on the roll cage that’s it that’s a fact. |
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Re: Should additional roll cage padding be required for 2024?
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Thank you Big Dom, now I got ya hopefully right. Sorry for that misconception, or out of context phrasing.
And be sure, I don't meant the cost aspect to you alone exclusively. But I've heard so often people complaining right in that style, at several occasions and items (gearbox blankets? come on!!! really?) :-) Would it make sense to think a few seconds about this airbag head/helmet support things like some of the motorcycle people already use (e.g oval track racers), or does it seem not applicable at all? Maybe it's possible to trigger some sort of that with a ROP mounted acce sensor. |
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Re: Should additional roll cage padding be required for 2024?
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No worries brother , sorry if I wasn’t clear as well , hans , seat or cage mounted head rests or padding systems , or some sort of tether possibly the headrest to make it a pain in the ass to back the tractor up to the sled but you can always use a spotter to direct you. I think most people do use them anyway, I’m just a small time Guy fairs and some smaller clubs and regional stuff on occasion there are much better way smarter people thinking on this topic then me but I felt head rests almost guaranteed I would not have that left to right fast whipping you see at times it just prevents the head from being able to even do that I saw a guy get knocked out when I was just watching a TV broadcast so I figured I would put the headrest on my seat also had it happen to myself once but not very hard but it did scratch my helmet up so it was literally a 10 minute fix I also worry about hands and arms coming out of the cage in a roll over as they do happen sometimes, a lot of open cockpit racers use arm restraints that run thru the belts but I know that may not work due to how controls and placement of steering wheels are on a tractor vs a race car just hate to see anyone hurt |
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Re: Should additional roll cage padding be required for 2024?
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Registered: 03/26/2008 Posts: 494 |
As one who was intimately involved is a serious head concussion case...Jason's neurosurgeon gave a big "no" to roll bar "padding". His answer was: tighten the five point harness to the point of being uncomfortable, Use a neck collar or HANS device. The neck collar should also be the kind that is almost uncomfortable to wear, not the flimsy, noodle like things that a lot of guys use. The propose is to support the hjelmet (with the head inside) and neck from jerking motions. |
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Re: Should additional roll cage padding be required for 2024?
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Bandit got it right, padding is nice to reduce impact acce peaks, but primarily it is intended to not even touch the padding with helmet. Or even if, then just only with minimum tilt angles regarding the neck joint. Both goals, limited tilt angle, and limited acce peaks, shall be adressed. And the tilt angle is at least that important or even more than the acce peaks.
This arm restraints are also often seen at drag racers suits. I would recomm a HANS even if it isn't strictly demanded. I agree that it's also annoying during backing up. But either you accept that, and take an assistant, or you can be somehow smart and use a backview cam&screen (which already works fine under bright daylight conditions, 30$), or try to play with a tiny hinged mirrow, like they already had in WW2 fighter plane cockpits: [www.youtube.com] I would try that, attached to the cage, hinge out for use, and right after that hinge back that everything appears as ever. |
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Re: Should additional roll cage padding be required for 2024?
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SFI 45.1 IS SPEC FOR ROLL BAR PAD. |
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Re: Should additional roll cage padding be required for 2024?
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PDT
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You do realize both those tractors have the additional head padding? |
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Re: Should additional roll cage padding be required for 2024?
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Registered: 02/18/2018 Posts: 244 |
HANS device should be required in minis for sure |
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Re: Should additional roll cage padding be required for 2024?
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FansOnly
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Andy was wearing a HANS... some of y'all's really don't think before you speak do ya... |
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Re: Should additional roll cage padding be required for 2024?
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Fly guy
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Is the fella okay that was knocked out. I haven’t heard anything about his condition on here yet. Seemed worse than the officials were letting on. |
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Re: Should additional roll cage padding be required for 2024?
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Moderator Registered: 03/19/2018 Posts: 664 |
Their FB page said he was sore, but otherwise ok.
CP |
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Re: Should additional roll cage padding be required for 2024?
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Registered: 11/24/2019 Posts: 242 |
A lot of guys need to learn how to tighten their seat belt harness. If they can shrug the belts off of their shoulders without releasing the latch, they aren't tight enough. Tightening the belts so you move with the tractor won't solve the problem, but it will help. |
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Re: Should additional roll cage padding be required for 2024?
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Registered: 04/04/2008 Posts: 630 |
I am understanding that loose belts were the likely culprit in Andy's case. As drivers we tend to get into a routine when getting ready to make a pass down the track. I back up to the sled,tighten my belts,put on my neck collar, flip down my visor then tighten the chain and wait for the green flag. This past weekend I forgot my visor two out of three passes. I think I was so preoccupied by trying to think though a way to get down the tricky track that I got out of my routine. Often times if something different happens during the hooking procedure IE having to pull up to get centered better it can throw off your routine. I can only remember one or two times that I went down a pulling track without tight belts, not a good feeling. Andy is a new driver, at least at this level and likley hasn't settled into a solid routine yet...not to mention the new experience of pulling in front of tens of thousands in BG. I've made myself ignore the crowd whether it's 30 people or 30,000 people I don't need the added distraction. I can remember some of my first times at BG one of the last things a would do when hooked to the sled was to look at the massive crowd...bad habit, at least in my case.
S'no Farmer |
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Re: Should additional roll cage padding be required for 2024?
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Registered: 07/18/2016 Posts: 74 |
I've never noticed the crowd when I'm hooked to the sled. Don't even care what's on the other side of the white lines lol |
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Re: Should additional roll cage padding be required for 2024?
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Thanks for that insight, Todd. I would also assume that younger inexperienced people struggle with their awareness under all this special impressions around them.
I observed many flag marshals which give you a sign to close your visor, and they won't give you green until you response to their order the right way. I recognized also in an interview of Whit Bazemore that he sat countless times in the garage in the car and doing what he call "mental runs" of all necessary steps, from cranking, idling, cruising, burn out, back up, etc... under all conditions, with a variety of outcomes, hole shot, peddling, sliding, fire, how to get out, etc. Probably this is out of scope for beginners in pulling. But I appreciate if some people would do that once in a while. Oh, maybe, in a parallel universe, track staff would have a bit of this attitude as well, thinking a few more times about, e.g. how to grab the water bucket faster than everybody else. |
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Re: Should additional roll cage padding be required for 2024?
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Registered: 08/22/2019 Posts: 84 |
I was at a PPL pull and we were wathcing the mods. When Steve Bunnage backed up to ths sleds, you could watch him pull the belts tight. When he was doing this the announcer talked about how drivers in the mod class had to pull their belts tight and how some other classes they did not. He expalined that because of the nature of the mods that it the was the reason for haveing to pull the belts tight. He claimed that the other classes there had to wear belts but did not have to pull them tight. Again, this was the announcer at a PPL pull. Can someone tell me if there is truth to this. |
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Re: Should additional roll cage padding be required for 2024?
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each to their own
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I think all pulling vehicles should be remote controlled and all fans need to be 1000ft from the track, then there will never be another accident again and everyone will be safe. |
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Re: Should additional roll cage padding be required for 2024?
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PullItHard
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After being around pulling for decades I am always bothered by the lack of safety at the pulls. Drivers with shoulder harnesses so loose drivers could bend over and touch their calf muscle, face shields left open, no on board fire systems, lack of safety shield when required by rules.
Just the lack of rule enforcement is a joke. I know 4WD trucks and tractors who have been caught cheating by tech inspectors and protested. The inspectors raise the issue to the higher up and nothing is done. Next pull some thing. Higher ups say "I guess we missed that one." Some of the times these teams are also on the management board. If the association wants to be Outlaws (hint where the problem lies) drop some rules you don't want to enforce (IE electronic controls) and enforce the ones you have. |
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Re: Should additional roll cage padding be required for 2024?
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Registered: 07/18/2016 Posts: 74 |
Hard to enforce face shields left open. I've tried to close mine only to be opening it half track with it fogged over not knowing where I'm at. Even leaving it cracked open it'll fog glasses over. |
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Re: Should additional roll cage padding be required for 2024?
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Registered: 11/24/2019 Posts: 242 |
Last helmet I bought I almost got one with a blower.
Wish I had gone ahead and got it. |
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Re: Should additional roll cage padding be required for 2024?
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Registered: 04/04/2008 Posts: 630 |
I think the face shield down is a recommendation not a hard fast rule. One reason is just what the last two posters mentioned, shield fogging. If the organization makes you put the shield down then you hit something by running off of the track because you can't see who is at fault?
We have used helmet ventilation for years because I feel the need to see clearly but also don't feel safe with an open visor. A side benefit (especially if you use a large blower) is that on hot days it helps cool down your head. The down side is the inconvenience of the hose not to mention that it makes you look like the Predator. S'no Farmer |
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Re: Should additional roll cage padding be required for 2024?
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PullItHard
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Enforcing the face shield will not be that hard at all. Before the start line flag person give the green flag, they check tight seat belts and face shield down. The trouble is they don't check any of these things. Like I stated tech inspection and rules enforcement has been a joke for years when will it change....may after the next death... |
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Re: Should additional roll cage padding be required for 2024?
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PDT
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At what point does the driver become responsible for their own safety? Going to set requirements on how much throttle they are allowed to use in different situations next? |
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Re: Should additional roll cage padding be required for 2024?
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PullItHard
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When the the driver does not take responsibility and their actions effect the association and other drivers. I bet that these drivers will want a GoFundMe after they get hurt because they don't care about safety. |
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Re: Should additional roll cage padding be required for 2024?
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From starting line flag man perspective it's maybe a bit comparable like Larry Sutton (NHRA) somehow said, that he ensured that every competitor who leaves under his responsebility, is safe. Once they leave the starting line area, the situation is out of his responsebility. Will say, probably some drivers will open their visor after leaving, in the case of a foggy shield.
And since these individuals are only responsible for themselve, regarding the issue of getting hurt by fire and hot (and fast) liquids, it's significantly a (how I call this) cat C topic. Don't put to much responsebility on staff or tech people, since primarily it's a drivers decision if they wanna risk their health, as long as they couldn't harm any others. If somebody ever offer me a place behind the wheel, I only would take it with appropriate personal safety equipment, containing a ventilated helmet and closed visor. |
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