So what are the new rules? September 18, 2023 01:24AM
What rules were passed, amended, withdrawn, etc. last weekend?

Anything above and beyond the published proposals (like the Diesel SS restrictor plate rule that came out of the blue pre-Covid when it wasn't on the proposals, then withdrawn after pushback)?

Re: So what are the new rules? September 18, 2023 01:48AM
C'mon Michael. You know as well as I do, the big meeting just happened. Give the office a little time to get them typed up and posted on their website. Which according to history, likely will be this week. Sometimes, it takes a few days for WPI to research an 'issue' and come to a final decision. And according to Morgan's it will probably still be wrong. We do not need the rumor mill operating, let alone with wrong info, to confuse everybody.

Re: So what are the new rules? September 18, 2023 04:49AM
Do any of the organizations have there 2024 schedule out yet? Even a tentative schedule? Just planning summer vacations and whatnot. ****

Re: So what are the new rules? September 18, 2023 11:26AM
Now THAT is funny !!!

Re: So what are the new rules? September 18, 2023 11:24PM
Tomah and Bowling Green dates for 24 are posted.

Any new NTPA rules? September 18, 2023 10:26AM
Any new rules come out of the Friday meetings? Didn’t see anything on NTOA web site or Facebook.

Re: Any new NTPA rules? September 19, 2023 09:32AM
Quote
Curious
Any new rules come out of the Friday meetings? Didn’t see anything on NTOA web site or Facebook.

Since there was already a thread about this, I have merged your thread into the existing one.



John Murray
Two-time Pedal Pull World Champion

Let's Go Pulling, covering the sport of pulling in Kentucky, Tennessee, and Alabama.
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5 days later and still nothing September 20, 2023 06:56AM
Way to be the self proclaimed industry leader or maybe nothing changed.

Re: 5 days later and still nothing September 20, 2023 10:34AM
What part of them waiting 5 days (so far) makes you think they aren’t an industry leader? What’s the hurry? Whoever said there was a deadline? What’s the big deal?

Re: 5 days later and still nothing September 21, 2023 03:13AM
Well if you have to order parts due to rule changes you want to get your name in line. You clearly aren’t a puller or you would understand this. A lot of parts just aren’t sitting on the shelf ready to ship. So for instance if they outlawed aluminum clutch cans and however many it affects have to order new ones that is a big deal. If they went with the billet caves on turbos guys have to get them ordered. It all takes time so the quicker the new rules get released the quicker guys know what changes need made and the quicker things can get ordered. So it is a big deal.

Re: 5 days later and still nothing September 21, 2023 04:25AM
Ohh I completely understand waiting for parts, however I feel 7 days won’t have much effect on that as everyone will likely order the same parts needed all on or close to the same day as the rule is possibly changed, I guess you just need to be quick about dialing the phone

Re: 5 days later and still nothing September 21, 2023 04:30PM
It doesn’t matter what they decide, someone will throw a fit and it will be changed within a week, look at the 24.5 tire bs last fall

Re: 5 days later and still nothing September 25, 2023 07:37AM
Bueller... Bueller... Bueller... anyone... anyone???SpinningEye RollingDrinking

Re: 5 days later and still nothing September 25, 2023 12:46PM
They are waiting to see what PPL and the Poutlaws do.
And waiting,,
And waiting,,

Re: 5 days later and still nothing September 25, 2023 01:36PM
The new tire rules are probably what is holding the release up...

Re: 5 days later and still nothing September 26, 2023 01:39PM
I got rules for 2024, not sure about the rest of you! LOL

Re: 5 days later and still nothing September 26, 2023 04:55PM
Hey @bandit496!!

How about you work on making your rollcage legal for NTPA... Pretty sad when an NTPA director doesn't have a legal tractor. Just sayin'...

Re: So what are the new rules? September 28, 2023 04:26AM
Wasn't the meeting on 9/15? If there are 1 or 2 proposals that aren't decided, advise such and post the ones that have passed or failed.

This question is not a criticism, just an honest question:

Is the decision on when to publish new rules solely up to Marvin? The NTPA President? A board or committee? How is the process supposed to work?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/28/2023 04:27AM by The Original Michael.

Re: So what are the new rules? September 28, 2023 04:46AM
I heard that the NTPA office is waiting on a new ribbon for there Royal typewriter. They hope to find one this weekend at a flea market

Re: So what are the new rules? September 28, 2023 01:31PM
Only the WPI Board is ultimately responsible for the rules.
With the time they are taking, they must be researching something(s).
Perhaps, and perhaps is a big surmising word, it even has to do with the Sandwich hot fuel issue.

Re: So what are the new rules? September 28, 2023 02:15PM
Sandwich was hot water, not fuel.
Just FYI.

Re: So what are the new rules? September 29, 2023 11:37AM
Research? Now that's a funny one right there!!

2024 NTPA Rules posted October 04, 2023 08:17AM
[ntpapull.com]

Re: 2024 NTPA Rules posted October 04, 2023 08:22AM
What a waste of time that was

Re: Text of rules here October 04, 2023 08:30AM
Light Limited Super Stock

Besides corrections to 2023 rules for LLSS previously posted to NTPA Tech Page in early 2023, the following rule was adopted
Light Limited Super Stock – limit all diesel engines to 3.4 x 4-inch smooth bore turbo including those engine sizes that allow two turbos. Use of a 3.0 x 4-inch turbo with MAP ring is no longer allowed

Pro Stock – 5.0

Approved PS 5.0 for competition at Regional National level (no longer on trial basis)
Removed Wimer as only supplier of PS 5.0 turbocharger to this class. Retained the same turbocharger size limits as stated in 2023 rule book

Hot Farm

Engine cylinder head must be OEM style (recast cylinder heads allowed). OEM stock dimensions (ie height, width, and length) must be retained. No billet heads allowed

Pro Farm

Amend current rule to require turbo intake and exhaust wheels to enter the 3-inch smooth bore restriction by 1/8-inch, same as required of other restricted turbochargers

Diesel Super Stock

Engines using a steel oil pan are exempt from pressure burst / relief device requirement in Diesel Super Stock division once final device type and specs are implemented

Modified Mini

Front skid plate to be configured according to dimensions and drawings as follows:
Skid plate must be made from 1/8-inch steel and extend across under front of chassis – rail to rail and solidly attached
Skid plate formed at 90 degrees with a minimum 2.500-inch radius at bottom front of skid
Tow hitch placed minimum 7.500 inches from ground
Skid to extend rearward to center of front axle
Bottom of skid plate to be bellow bottom of front rim

Driver’s feet must be placed inside the main frame rails while competing under green flag in Mini division at all levels

TWD

Rear weight boxes behind hook point must have a minimum 7-inch wide, open space centered behind the hook point so sled chain can be hooked into drawbar without interference from weight boxes

GN Modified – Turbine Engines

Allow turbine engines up to a combined maximum 9,450 horsepower as rated in NTPA Pulling Rules

Light Super Stock

Maximum weight limit increased to 6,300 lbs.
Request to increase weight made by division committee in 2022
No action taken due to SFI 47.2 Rollcage spec limited to 6,000 lbs.
SFI 47.2 Rollcage spec updated to 6,300 lbs. in July, 2023 now allows weight increase

Light Pro Stock

Approved proposal as submitted by committee
Limit turbocharger intake compressor wheel opening to 5 inches and retain existing 4.500-inch exhaust wheel limit – wheels must protrude in restricted openings by minimum 1/8-inch
No recast aftermarket injection pump housings. OEM P7100 or P3000 housings only
Retain current maximum of 48 lug tire rule – no Mitas tires
Lock in rules for Light Pro Stock class for 3 years
Follow all other class rules as currently written

Pro Street Diesel 4X4 Trucks – 2.6 turbo

Pro Street Diesel 4X4 Truck – 2.6 turbo class accepted as a Regional National division based on rules submitted by WTPA
Adjustments to safety related rules may be necessary to align with existing Diesel 4X4 requirements

Tires – Semi

Add the following rule omitted from 2023 NTPA Pulling Rules
Limited to standard 8.250-inch maximum rim width. No chains or cables permitted. No cutting of tires permitted.

Tires – Mini

All tires in division, at all levels, limited to maximum 17.5-inch tread width and maximum 30 lugs after cutting as tire is used in competition

Tires – General

Existing specs and procedures used by Technical Services to measure tires out-of-mold will remain in effect for all tire sizes listed in NTPA Pulling Rules
Approved Tech Services to establish specs and measuring procedure for tire width and circumference in ready-to-pull condition on vehicles at the track

Points / Competition

A. Points – pg.20 – amend 4. vehicle license level
Purpose is to eliminate disruption to division points chase
System (not finalized) to be implemented to limit negative impact to those chasing a points championship at GN level where entries exceed 25 or more in a division
Group GN points competitors to minimize negative effect from changes in track conditions
Divisions affected most – TWD, FWD, MINI, and PS
Procedure will be adopted to begin the first GN points event(s) after Chapel Hill, TN

Entry Procedures

Approved to limit all divisions of competition from jumping up more than one level at GN/SN events.
Example: PS 4.1 can register to compete in RN PS 5.0 competition but not GN Heavy Pro Stock

Contest Procedures

Kill Switch
Amend existing rule in 2. Contest Procedures – pg.30 – f.
While under green flag conditions, if kill switch is inadvertently pulled by sled cable (ie. cable caught in chain), and plastic tie is broken, competitor may be granted, at the discretion of the head official, to drop to last and have up to six (6) minutes to repair or replace failed or damaged kill switch and make another attempt.
Kill switch operation must be confirmed by a NTPA Tech Official before another attempt is made.
If incident occurs during first pull attempt, competitor will be granted two (2) attempts to make a measurable pull.

Safety

Turbocharger Exhaust Wheel Cage
Technical Services is evaluating wheel cage designs from turbo manufacturers.
Exhaust wheel cages submitted by turbo manufacturers will be sent to SFI for testing
Containment device between intake compressor wheel and guillotine will also be studied
Recommendations will be used to craft new rules necessary to ensure turbo safety for 2024 season
SSFWD Trucks
All trucks competing in SS FWD division only are required to use a SFI certified steel or titanium bellhousing
No aluminum bellhousings allowed in this division.

Bellhousing Certification

Adopted for 2024 – per 2023 NTPA Pulling Rules – pg.40 d. Bellhousing Certification / Renewal
1) All divisions, SFI 6.3 aluminum bellhousings must display a valid and current SFI sticker from the manufacturer before being allowed to compete in any NTPA sanctioned event. This applies to all aluminum bellhousings in divisions where use is permitted.
2) Starting Jan.1, 2024, all SFI bellhousings regardless of material (ie. steel, titanium, or aluminum) must display a current SFI certification sticker with an expiration date affixed by the manufacture. Any bellhousing previously stamped with a NTPA shield stamp will no longer be acceptable as a replacement for the SFI decal after Jan.1, 2024.

SFI 6.4 Puller and Diesel Drag Racing Spec Approved
NEW SFI 6.4 bellhousing spec approved by SFI Board of Directors in July 2023, spec is now available for manufactures to implement
5-year certification for steel and titanium bellhousings available – aluminum not included
SFI 6.4 is applied at manufacturers discretion
Current SFI 6.3 steel or titanium bellhousings will meet SFI 6.4 spec
Pullers can request bellhousing manufacturer apply the SFI 6.4 – 5-year certification to a SFI 6.3 steel or titanium bellhousing

Definitions – pg.45 – d. Cubic Inch Formula

Approved the addition of + or – 1% cubic inch measuring tolerance to this rule to cover all engines in all divisions

Exhaust Headers – pg.58 – a. General Requirements – 2)

Approved standard 8-inch dimension from bottom of bend to top of header pipe in all divisions
Exceptions currently found in TWD and FWD will be removed.

5pt. Harness

Approved any application where a 5pt. harness is required, the harness must meet SFI 16.1 and such SFI identification tag must be affixed to harness.

Re: Text of rules here October 04, 2023 12:24PM
Looks like Slagh’s minis aren’t legal anymore. Feet have to be inside frame rails.

Re: Text of rules here October 04, 2023 02:43PM
Quote
Dirtfarmer
Looks like Slagh’s minis aren’t legal anymore. Feet have to be inside frame rails.
Inside main frame rail is the rule. Is there a maximum chassis width? Might just spread the frame out in strategic areas.

Re: Text of rules here October 05, 2023 01:47AM
I see they have screwed up the 5” pro class

Re: Text of rules here October 05, 2023 01:54PM
Quote
unbelievable
I see they have screwed up the 5” pro class.

I ask how so? I interpret the class is now allowed in all Regions. And not limiting the turbo to be supplied only by Wimer is a plus. Overall, looks like a win-win.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/06/2023 04:59AM by Jake Morgan.

Re: Text of rules here October 05, 2023 03:29PM
The box turbo is what makes the class successful. You will see

Turbo cage rule is asinine October 06, 2023 12:42AM
The turbo cage rule is asinine. Here is an idea, enforce the rule you have or change the rule to move the bolts closer to the turbine housing. The rule could read bolts in exhaust pipe allowed to be a maximum of 2” away from turbine housing. Don’t care if it’s two bolts or four. No instead, NTPA in all their brilliance says let’s mandate a cage. So then you start pricing cages and for guys with bigger turbos the kits are $1000.00 a kit. So on a multi charger set up a couple grand. Now with these kits your plumbing is going to shift, so now paying someone to re fabricate your plumbing so it fits in your existing pipes or you drill new holes in sheet metal that cost you thousands of dollars and a paint job that costs you thousands of dollars. All because some dumba$$ on the East Coast didn’t have his installed properly to begin with. So in essence we are costing the whole several thousand dollars for the stupidity and laziness of one. Or here’s another idea, require the exhaust to be made out of schedule 10 or schedule 40 piping, not some chincy cheap garbage. Instead in another classic NTPA move we knee jerk react and the only people losing out are the pullers. The builders are going to make a ton of money off this. Depending on the material $30-60 an inch that they are going to sell for a grand. I don’t want to hear the BS pullers can afford it, it’s just a hobby, etc. Everybody makes money off the puller; the sanctioning body, the builders, the promoters, the fuel stations, the merchandisers, the grocery stores (we don’t eat all our meals on the fairgrounds) The rule is stupid. Maybe a class action law suit should be filed by all pullers against the one guy who is the cause of this and he can pay to have them installed on everyone’s tractor. It’s not that I don’t take safety seriously, I do. There are better, cheaper alternatives that will achieve the same end goal. Pullers may be some of the brightest minds in motorsports but the decision makers are some of the dumbest in the business and racing world.

Re: Turbo cage rule is asinine October 06, 2023 01:06AM
A woman died. Actually died. Not possibly. Not probably. Actually. I'm fine with it being addressed. You went a long way down the poor me line... Be pretty sweet if the 2024 upgraded charger just included it anyway because you'll be all over that right?

CP

Re: Turbo cage rule is asinine October 06, 2023 01:24AM
You’re right a woman died and that’s tragic. She died because of one guy’s stupidity. There are more cost effective ways to deal with the issue. I don’t run in a single charger class so the turbo race don’t mean a hill of beans to me. Her carotid was cut by the exhaust wheel. Didn’t hear any conversations about moving fans back from the track. None! It’s a stupid rule, you go back to announcing and do what you do best.

Re: Turbo cage rule is asinine October 06, 2023 02:23AM
From NTPA Tech Page:
"Attention Super Farm Competitors
There will be a stainless exhaust wheel cage available for all competitors at Bowling Green, OH starting Thursday from the welder which would replace the bolts.
In order to run Bowling Green, OH and the rest of the 2023 season, this must be installed."

Here is what does not make sense to me:
1) Why was SF only singled out to be mandated to have a turbo safety cage, immediately for BG, whereas the other diesel classes were allowed to continue to be 'as is'?

2) Then only a few days later (notice they never state when the posting date is) they state:
"If your ½” bolts are as close to the turbo housings as possible, then you are good. You don’t have to add, but if they are more than 2” away from the turbo housing, then you need to install two (2) new ½” grade 5 bolts as close as possible. Anything that is farther than 2” away can be removed from the exhaust pipe."

Seems to me that applies also to SF. Which should mean they do not need the turbo cage.

And the other thing that bugs me is why is SF so singled out about the fuel test checks? When it is very obvious the other diesel classes run that hot water which makes hot fuel and how often, if ever, do those classes have a fuel test check? One day I was visiting in the pits a soon to be GN PS champion as he was fueling the tractor. 3 different cans of fuel and talk about a heavy chemical stinky potent stuff he was pouring into the fuel tank - wowwwww!!!! It's no wonder those engines come alive. And come unglued!!! Just walk through the pits as pullers fuel their diesel engine - doesn't matter if tractor or truck - and whiff what they are pouring into the tank.

Perhaps the 'hot water' should just be outlawed altogether and mandate only a certain maximum cetane rating diesel fuel, in order to detune the engine power.
Perhaps, a turbo safety cage will not then be needed. And/or specify a maximum engine rpm limit and if over it, automatic DQ, just like some so called farm stock classes have. The horsepower war is very outrageously costly and keeping it safe is also costly.

Perhaps NTPA & PPL & whomever other sanctioning bodies need to be implementing safety rules to detune the engine performance (of some)of their classes with the bottom line to keep the insurance carrier in our sport. Which also lowers the pullers cost and a means to provide a safer environment to the spectators, promoters and sanctioning body.

Re: Text of rules here October 04, 2023 05:08PM
I wouldn't be too worried about Slagh's. Them boys will have it figured out soon enough.

Re: Text of rules here October 05, 2023 04:08AM
SSFWD Trucks
All trucks competing in SS FWD division only are required to use a SFI certified steel or titanium bellhousing
No aluminum bellhousings allowed in this division.


Does anyone know if this is for Gas or Diesel or both? and if so, why only this division?

Re: Text of rules here October 05, 2023 09:01AM
Gassers,
They are twisting some high rpm's and when things break, the aluminum cans aren't keeping all the rotating parts inside of them.
BTW, SFI only tests for flywheels exploding, no clutch parts.
Fun fact of the day.

Re: Text of rules here October 05, 2023 09:33AM
Which is Jeff's point. It's a diesel class denied the steel-lined aluminum can, not the spark-plug guys.

CP

Re: Text of rules here October 05, 2023 09:39AM
Bass ackwards CP.
It is the small block gas burners that can't use aluminum.
The grease burners can still use aluminum.
If it said DSSFWD, it would be grease burners.
SSFWD are the gas burners.

Re: Text of rules here October 06, 2023 01:01AM
I see where I missed one key letter. Thank you.

CP

Re: Text of rules here October 06, 2023 04:17AM
Quote
Shell Answer Man
Bass ackwards CP.
It is the small block gas burners that can't use aluminum.
The grease burners can still use aluminum.
If it said DSSFWD, it would be grease burners.
SSFWD are the gas burners.

That was exactly why I asked the question. I noticed the D was missing (stop with the jokes. LOL) so I assumed it was gas only, but then I thought maybe the NTPA missed the letter by mistake. Also, I recall there being something in the rule book that says SSDFWD also have to follow the safety rules of the Gas FWD classes. I reached out to Marvin for clarification but I have not heard back yet.

Re: Text of rules here October 06, 2023 11:40AM
Super Stock FWD not Modified FWD. The SSFWD is a ProNational/Regional National class. R2--410 CI; R3--530 CI; R6--500 CI 4-barrel carb on gasoline.

Re: Text of rules here October 10, 2023 09:12AM
Quote
bandit496
Super Stock FWD not Modified FWD. The SSFWD is a ProNational/Regional National class. R2--410 CI; R3--530 CI; R6--500 CI 4-barrel carb on gasoline.

Confirmed by Marvin via e-mail. Gas SSFWD only.

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