11:46:03am, Sunday, April 28, 2024
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So what are the new rules?
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Moderator Registered: 07/06/2008 Posts: 1,347 |
What rules were passed, amended, withdrawn, etc. last weekend?
Anything above and beyond the published proposals (like the Diesel SS restrictor plate rule that came out of the blue pre-Covid when it wasn't on the proposals, then withdrawn after pushback)? |
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Re: So what are the new rules?
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C'mon
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C'mon Michael. You know as well as I do, the big meeting just happened. Give the office a little time to get them typed up and posted on their website. Which according to history, likely will be this week. Sometimes, it takes a few days for WPI to research an 'issue' and come to a final decision. And according to Morgan's it will probably still be wrong. We do not need the rumor mill operating, let alone with wrong info, to confuse everybody. |
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Re: So what are the new rules?
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The Overzealous Michael
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Do any of the organizations have there 2024 schedule out yet? Even a tentative schedule? Just planning summer vacations and whatnot. **** |
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Re: So what are the new rules?
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HP
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Now THAT is funny !!! |
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Re: So what are the new rules?
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plb
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Tomah and Bowling Green dates for 24 are posted. |
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Any new NTPA rules?
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Curious
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Any new rules come out of the Friday meetings? Didn’t see anything on NTOA web site or Facebook. |
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Re: Any new NTPA rules?
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Moderator Registered: 02/21/2012 Posts: 797 |
Since there was already a thread about this, I have merged your thread into the existing one. John Murray Two-time Pedal Pull World Champion Let's Go Pulling, covering the sport of pulling in Kentucky, Tennessee, and Alabama. Watch LGP on YouTube Like LGP on Facebook 
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5 days later and still nothing
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Curious
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Way to be the self proclaimed industry leader or maybe nothing changed. |
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Re: 5 days later and still nothing
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Team one
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What part of them waiting 5 days (so far) makes you think they aren’t an industry leader? What’s the hurry? Whoever said there was a deadline? What’s the big deal? |
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Re: 5 days later and still nothing
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Registered: 01/07/2022 Posts: 102 |
Well if you have to order parts due to rule changes you want to get your name in line. You clearly aren’t a puller or you would understand this. A lot of parts just aren’t sitting on the shelf ready to ship. So for instance if they outlawed aluminum clutch cans and however many it affects have to order new ones that is a big deal. If they went with the billet caves on turbos guys have to get them ordered. It all takes time so the quicker the new rules get released the quicker guys know what changes need made and the quicker things can get ordered. So it is a big deal. |
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Re: 5 days later and still nothing
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Team one
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Ohh I completely understand waiting for parts, however I feel 7 days won’t have much effect on that as everyone will likely order the same parts needed all on or close to the same day as the rule is possibly changed, I guess you just need to be quick about dialing the phone |
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Re: 5 days later and still nothing
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Lol
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It doesn’t matter what they decide, someone will throw a fit and it will be changed within a week, look at the 24.5 tire bs last fall |
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Re: 5 days later and still nothing
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Mr. Lorensax
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Bueller... Bueller... Bueller... anyone... anyone???  
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Re: 5 days later and still nothing
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Pointer Outer
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They are waiting to see what PPL and the Poutlaws do.
And waiting,, And waiting,, |
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Re: 5 days later and still nothing
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roadkill
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The new tire rules are probably what is holding the release up... |
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Re: 5 days later and still nothing
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Registered: 03/26/2008 Posts: 494 |
I got rules for 2024, not sure about the rest of you! LOL |
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Re: 5 days later and still nothing
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FansOnly
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Hey @bandit496!!
How about you work on making your rollcage legal for NTPA... Pretty sad when an NTPA director doesn't have a legal tractor. Just sayin'... |
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Re: So what are the new rules?
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Moderator Registered: 07/06/2008 Posts: 1,347 |
Wasn't the meeting on 9/15? If there are 1 or 2 proposals that aren't decided, advise such and post the ones that have passed or failed.
This question is not a criticism, just an honest question: Is the decision on when to publish new rules solely up to Marvin? The NTPA President? A board or committee? How is the process supposed to work? Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/28/2023 04:27AM by The Original Michael. |
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Re: So what are the new rules?
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1968
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I heard that the NTPA office is waiting on a new ribbon for there Royal typewriter. They hope to find one this weekend at a flea market |
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Re: So what are the new rules?
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rules
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Only the WPI Board is ultimately responsible for the rules.
With the time they are taking, they must be researching something(s). Perhaps, and perhaps is a big surmising word, it even has to do with the Sandwich hot fuel issue. |
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Re: So what are the new rules?
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Correctorator
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Sandwich was hot water, not fuel.
Just FYI. |
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Re: So what are the new rules?
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Ivy League
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Research? Now that's a funny one right there!! |
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2024 NTPA Rules posted
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Link to new NTPA rules
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[ntpapull.com] |
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Re: 2024 NTPA Rules posted
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Wow
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What a waste of time that was |
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Re: Text of rules here
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Moderator Registered: 07/06/2008 Posts: 1,347 |
Light Limited Super Stock
Besides corrections to 2023 rules for LLSS previously posted to NTPA Tech Page in early 2023, the following rule was adopted Light Limited Super Stock – limit all diesel engines to 3.4 x 4-inch smooth bore turbo including those engine sizes that allow two turbos. Use of a 3.0 x 4-inch turbo with MAP ring is no longer allowed Pro Stock – 5.0 Approved PS 5.0 for competition at Regional National level (no longer on trial basis) Removed Wimer as only supplier of PS 5.0 turbocharger to this class. Retained the same turbocharger size limits as stated in 2023 rule book Hot Farm Engine cylinder head must be OEM style (recast cylinder heads allowed). OEM stock dimensions (ie height, width, and length) must be retained. No billet heads allowed Pro Farm Amend current rule to require turbo intake and exhaust wheels to enter the 3-inch smooth bore restriction by 1/8-inch, same as required of other restricted turbochargers Diesel Super Stock Engines using a steel oil pan are exempt from pressure burst / relief device requirement in Diesel Super Stock division once final device type and specs are implemented Modified Mini Front skid plate to be configured according to dimensions and drawings as follows: Skid plate must be made from 1/8-inch steel and extend across under front of chassis – rail to rail and solidly attached Skid plate formed at 90 degrees with a minimum 2.500-inch radius at bottom front of skid Tow hitch placed minimum 7.500 inches from ground Skid to extend rearward to center of front axle Bottom of skid plate to be bellow bottom of front rim Driver’s feet must be placed inside the main frame rails while competing under green flag in Mini division at all levels TWD Rear weight boxes behind hook point must have a minimum 7-inch wide, open space centered behind the hook point so sled chain can be hooked into drawbar without interference from weight boxes GN Modified – Turbine Engines Allow turbine engines up to a combined maximum 9,450 horsepower as rated in NTPA Pulling Rules Light Super Stock Maximum weight limit increased to 6,300 lbs. Request to increase weight made by division committee in 2022 No action taken due to SFI 47.2 Rollcage spec limited to 6,000 lbs. SFI 47.2 Rollcage spec updated to 6,300 lbs. in July, 2023 now allows weight increase Light Pro Stock Approved proposal as submitted by committee Limit turbocharger intake compressor wheel opening to 5 inches and retain existing 4.500-inch exhaust wheel limit – wheels must protrude in restricted openings by minimum 1/8-inch No recast aftermarket injection pump housings. OEM P7100 or P3000 housings only Retain current maximum of 48 lug tire rule – no Mitas tires Lock in rules for Light Pro Stock class for 3 years Follow all other class rules as currently written Pro Street Diesel 4X4 Trucks – 2.6 turbo Pro Street Diesel 4X4 Truck – 2.6 turbo class accepted as a Regional National division based on rules submitted by WTPA Adjustments to safety related rules may be necessary to align with existing Diesel 4X4 requirements Tires – Semi Add the following rule omitted from 2023 NTPA Pulling Rules Limited to standard 8.250-inch maximum rim width. No chains or cables permitted. No cutting of tires permitted. Tires – Mini All tires in division, at all levels, limited to maximum 17.5-inch tread width and maximum 30 lugs after cutting as tire is used in competition Tires – General Existing specs and procedures used by Technical Services to measure tires out-of-mold will remain in effect for all tire sizes listed in NTPA Pulling Rules Approved Tech Services to establish specs and measuring procedure for tire width and circumference in ready-to-pull condition on vehicles at the track Points / Competition A. Points – pg.20 – amend 4. vehicle license level Purpose is to eliminate disruption to division points chase System (not finalized) to be implemented to limit negative impact to those chasing a points championship at GN level where entries exceed 25 or more in a division Group GN points competitors to minimize negative effect from changes in track conditions Divisions affected most – TWD, FWD, MINI, and PS Procedure will be adopted to begin the first GN points event(s) after Chapel Hill, TN Entry Procedures Approved to limit all divisions of competition from jumping up more than one level at GN/SN events. Example: PS 4.1 can register to compete in RN PS 5.0 competition but not GN Heavy Pro Stock Contest Procedures Kill Switch Amend existing rule in 2. Contest Procedures – pg.30 – f. While under green flag conditions, if kill switch is inadvertently pulled by sled cable (ie. cable caught in chain), and plastic tie is broken, competitor may be granted, at the discretion of the head official, to drop to last and have up to six (6) minutes to repair or replace failed or damaged kill switch and make another attempt. Kill switch operation must be confirmed by a NTPA Tech Official before another attempt is made. If incident occurs during first pull attempt, competitor will be granted two (2) attempts to make a measurable pull. Safety Turbocharger Exhaust Wheel Cage Technical Services is evaluating wheel cage designs from turbo manufacturers. Exhaust wheel cages submitted by turbo manufacturers will be sent to SFI for testing Containment device between intake compressor wheel and guillotine will also be studied Recommendations will be used to craft new rules necessary to ensure turbo safety for 2024 season SSFWD Trucks All trucks competing in SS FWD division only are required to use a SFI certified steel or titanium bellhousing No aluminum bellhousings allowed in this division. Bellhousing Certification Adopted for 2024 – per 2023 NTPA Pulling Rules – pg.40 d. Bellhousing Certification / Renewal 1) All divisions, SFI 6.3 aluminum bellhousings must display a valid and current SFI sticker from the manufacturer before being allowed to compete in any NTPA sanctioned event. This applies to all aluminum bellhousings in divisions where use is permitted. 2) Starting Jan.1, 2024, all SFI bellhousings regardless of material (ie. steel, titanium, or aluminum) must display a current SFI certification sticker with an expiration date affixed by the manufacture. Any bellhousing previously stamped with a NTPA shield stamp will no longer be acceptable as a replacement for the SFI decal after Jan.1, 2024. SFI 6.4 Puller and Diesel Drag Racing Spec Approved NEW SFI 6.4 bellhousing spec approved by SFI Board of Directors in July 2023, spec is now available for manufactures to implement 5-year certification for steel and titanium bellhousings available – aluminum not included SFI 6.4 is applied at manufacturers discretion Current SFI 6.3 steel or titanium bellhousings will meet SFI 6.4 spec Pullers can request bellhousing manufacturer apply the SFI 6.4 – 5-year certification to a SFI 6.3 steel or titanium bellhousing Definitions – pg.45 – d. Cubic Inch Formula Approved the addition of + or – 1% cubic inch measuring tolerance to this rule to cover all engines in all divisions Exhaust Headers – pg.58 – a. General Requirements – 2) Approved standard 8-inch dimension from bottom of bend to top of header pipe in all divisions Exceptions currently found in TWD and FWD will be removed. 5pt. Harness Approved any application where a 5pt. harness is required, the harness must meet SFI 16.1 and such SFI identification tag must be affixed to harness. |
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Re: Text of rules here
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Registered: 11/24/2019 Posts: 242 |
Looks like Slagh’s minis aren’t legal anymore. Feet have to be inside frame rails. |
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Re: Text of rules here
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Registered: 09/26/2021 Posts: 71 |
Inside main frame rail is the rule. Is there a maximum chassis width? Might just spread the frame out in strategic areas. |
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Re: Text of rules here
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Unbelievable
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I see they have screwed up the 5” pro class |
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Re: Text of rules here
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win-win
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I ask how so? I interpret the class is now allowed in all Regions. And not limiting the turbo to be supplied only by Wimer is a plus. Overall, looks like a win-win. Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/06/2023 04:59AM by Jake Morgan. |
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Re: Text of rules here
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Unbelievable
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The box turbo is what makes the class successful. You will see |
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Turbo cage rule is asinine
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Puller
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The turbo cage rule is asinine. Here is an idea, enforce the rule you have or change the rule to move the bolts closer to the turbine housing. The rule could read bolts in exhaust pipe allowed to be a maximum of 2” away from turbine housing. Don’t care if it’s two bolts or four. No instead, NTPA in all their brilliance says let’s mandate a cage. So then you start pricing cages and for guys with bigger turbos the kits are $1000.00 a kit. So on a multi charger set up a couple grand. Now with these kits your plumbing is going to shift, so now paying someone to re fabricate your plumbing so it fits in your existing pipes or you drill new holes in sheet metal that cost you thousands of dollars and a paint job that costs you thousands of dollars. All because some dumba$$ on the East Coast didn’t have his installed properly to begin with. So in essence we are costing the whole several thousand dollars for the stupidity and laziness of one. Or here’s another idea, require the exhaust to be made out of schedule 10 or schedule 40 piping, not some chincy cheap garbage. Instead in another classic NTPA move we knee jerk react and the only people losing out are the pullers. The builders are going to make a ton of money off this. Depending on the material $30-60 an inch that they are going to sell for a grand. I don’t want to hear the BS pullers can afford it, it’s just a hobby, etc. Everybody makes money off the puller; the sanctioning body, the builders, the promoters, the fuel stations, the merchandisers, the grocery stores (we don’t eat all our meals on the fairgrounds) The rule is stupid. Maybe a class action law suit should be filed by all pullers against the one guy who is the cause of this and he can pay to have them installed on everyone’s tractor. It’s not that I don’t take safety seriously, I do. There are better, cheaper alternatives that will achieve the same end goal. Pullers may be some of the brightest minds in motorsports but the decision makers are some of the dumbest in the business and racing world. |
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Re: Turbo cage rule is asinine
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Moderator Registered: 03/19/2018 Posts: 664 |
A woman died. Actually died. Not possibly. Not probably. Actually. I'm fine with it being addressed. You went a long way down the poor me line... Be pretty sweet if the 2024 upgraded charger just included it anyway because you'll be all over that right?
CP |
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Re: Turbo cage rule is asinine
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Puller
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You’re right a woman died and that’s tragic. She died because of one guy’s stupidity. There are more cost effective ways to deal with the issue. I don’t run in a single charger class so the turbo race don’t mean a hill of beans to me. Her carotid was cut by the exhaust wheel. Didn’t hear any conversations about moving fans back from the track. None! It’s a stupid rule, you go back to announcing and do what you do best. |
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Re: Turbo cage rule is asinine
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win-win
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From NTPA Tech Page:
"Attention Super Farm Competitors There will be a stainless exhaust wheel cage available for all competitors at Bowling Green, OH starting Thursday from the welder which would replace the bolts. In order to run Bowling Green, OH and the rest of the 2023 season, this must be installed." Here is what does not make sense to me: 1) Why was SF only singled out to be mandated to have a turbo safety cage, immediately for BG, whereas the other diesel classes were allowed to continue to be 'as is'? 2) Then only a few days later (notice they never state when the posting date is) they state: "If your ½” bolts are as close to the turbo housings as possible, then you are good. You don’t have to add, but if they are more than 2” away from the turbo housing, then you need to install two (2) new ½” grade 5 bolts as close as possible. Anything that is farther than 2” away can be removed from the exhaust pipe." Seems to me that applies also to SF. Which should mean they do not need the turbo cage. And the other thing that bugs me is why is SF so singled out about the fuel test checks? When it is very obvious the other diesel classes run that hot water which makes hot fuel and how often, if ever, do those classes have a fuel test check? One day I was visiting in the pits a soon to be GN PS champion as he was fueling the tractor. 3 different cans of fuel and talk about a heavy chemical stinky potent stuff he was pouring into the fuel tank - wowwwww!!!! It's no wonder those engines come alive. And come unglued!!! Just walk through the pits as pullers fuel their diesel engine - doesn't matter if tractor or truck - and whiff what they are pouring into the tank. Perhaps the 'hot water' should just be outlawed altogether and mandate only a certain maximum cetane rating diesel fuel, in order to detune the engine power. Perhaps, a turbo safety cage will not then be needed. And/or specify a maximum engine rpm limit and if over it, automatic DQ, just like some so called farm stock classes have. The horsepower war is very outrageously costly and keeping it safe is also costly. Perhaps NTPA & PPL & whomever other sanctioning bodies need to be implementing safety rules to detune the engine performance (of some)of their classes with the bottom line to keep the insurance carrier in our sport. Which also lowers the pullers cost and a means to provide a safer environment to the spectators, promoters and sanctioning body. |
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Re: Text of rules here
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FansOnly
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I wouldn't be too worried about Slagh's. Them boys will have it figured out soon enough. |
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Re: Text of rules here
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Registered: 01/03/2019 Posts: 280 |
SSFWD Trucks
All trucks competing in SS FWD division only are required to use a SFI certified steel or titanium bellhousing No aluminum bellhousings allowed in this division. Does anyone know if this is for Gas or Diesel or both? and if so, why only this division? |
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Re: Text of rules here
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Shell Answer Man
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Gassers,
They are twisting some high rpm's and when things break, the aluminum cans aren't keeping all the rotating parts inside of them. BTW, SFI only tests for flywheels exploding, no clutch parts. Fun fact of the day. |
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Re: Text of rules here
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Moderator Registered: 03/19/2018 Posts: 664 |
Which is Jeff's point. It's a diesel class denied the steel-lined aluminum can, not the spark-plug guys.
CP |
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Re: Text of rules here
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Shell Answer Man
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Bass ackwards CP.
It is the small block gas burners that can't use aluminum. The grease burners can still use aluminum. If it said DSSFWD, it would be grease burners. SSFWD are the gas burners. |
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Re: Text of rules here
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Moderator Registered: 03/19/2018 Posts: 664 |
I see where I missed one key letter. Thank you.
CP |
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Re: Text of rules here
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Registered: 01/03/2019 Posts: 280 |
That was exactly why I asked the question. I noticed the D was missing (stop with the jokes. LOL) so I assumed it was gas only, but then I thought maybe the NTPA missed the letter by mistake. Also, I recall there being something in the rule book that says SSDFWD also have to follow the safety rules of the Gas FWD classes. I reached out to Marvin for clarification but I have not heard back yet. |
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Re: Text of rules here
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Registered: 03/26/2008 Posts: 494 |
Super Stock FWD not Modified FWD. The SSFWD is a ProNational/Regional National class. R2--410 CI; R3--530 CI; R6--500 CI 4-barrel carb on gasoline. |
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Re: Text of rules here
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Registered: 01/03/2019 Posts: 280 |
Confirmed by Marvin via e-mail. Gas SSFWD only. |
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