02:50:40pm, Thursday, May 02, 2024
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Lincoln SS Garden tractors
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Can somebody tell us what the deal was last night in Lincoln? Did Miller really come out of the stands and overule the flagman? If so, he's the one should be suspended!!!!!!!! |
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Re: Lincoln SS Garden tractors
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Anonymous User
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Miller was on the track for the decision.All of this could have been avoided if chalk would have been put down to mark the out of bounds.Now there is a bunch of upset people with one puller being suspended and possibly getting out of a sport he dearly loves because of this.I was not there to hear what was said.I know tempers and emotions were running pretty high that night.We all have to remember we are in this to have fun and get away from stresses in life,not to add to them.Hopefully this situation can be resolved and we won't have a problem arise again. |
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Re: Lincoln SS Garden tractors
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dedicated fan
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I may not be the most intelligent person in the world but I sure do pride my self in being observant. Isn’t one of the first rules in the rule book that the flagman has the last call and that his or her decision is final. This all happened 3 HOOKS LATER!!!????. The flagman stated several times that it was a legal hook? How does one come to the conclusion that he or she can overrule the flagman several hooks later, that not only was not serving as a track official, was also sitting in the grandstands WATCHING not participating in the judging of the class in anyway!? Not a fair fight. What happened to the rule about the flaggers decision being final?? I wouldn’t even expect this from a group of misguided brush pullers not to mention an organization such as the ITPA. What gives? That particular puller has done amazing things to support this sport. It will be a shame to see it end for him.
-Disgruntled Fan- |
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Re: Lincoln SS Garden tractors
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misguided brush puller
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ITPA is nothing but a bunch of miguided brush pullers them selves. I mean come on. How can ya tell a 12k profarm class that they have to have a 3 bar roll cage on when the roll cage is only good for 10k? |
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Re: Lincoln SS Garden tractors
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just ask
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You know, you bring up a good point. You may be the person who asked about this a few months ago on here, I don't remember if I ever saw a response back then. The board did check to see if the extra weight would be okay, and they were told it would be (don't ask me who they checked with, I would assume it would be SFI, but I didn't think to ask). How do I know this? I asked one of the ITPA Directors directly, instead of getting on here trying to cause trouble. I'm pretty sure the ITPA board is smart enough to figure out that 12,000 lbs is more than 10,000 lbs and do a little research.
As shown by your posts in the past few days, misguided brush puller, you obviously are not an ITPA fan. That is your choice. In case you haven't guessed, I am a fan of the ITPA. I have been to several good pulls put on by the association this year, as I have also done for the past several years. Just remember: no pulling organization is perfect, as is no person. I haven't seen you volunteering your time and efforts to do a better job. If you don't care for the ITPA, don't follow them. Easy enough solution, huh? |
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Re: Lincoln SS Garden tractors
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misguided brush puller
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You are right, I am not an ITPA fan ANYMORE. What just happened to Matt Kaster has happened before in other venues(not just events)over the last 17 years. So, I won't follow them anymore, that way they can lose another fan, just like they have lost another puller. And as far as asking an ITPA director about the weight issue, I will not do that. But I will call SFI. |
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Re: Lincoln SS Garden tractors
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mystic eye
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Well, they were south of Peoria, I guess cheeseheads arent welcome. No chalk lines was third grade, and Pres.Miller showed his true level of leadership by grossly abusing his position. Support your flagman right or wrong! Then correct him in private after the pull. |
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Re: Lincoln SS Garden tractors
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Who??
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Who was it? Who was flag man? Thanks just curious |
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Re: Lincoln SS Garden tractors
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IDOITT
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Doesn't matter who or why. This sounds like another attempt too force something that shouldn't have been forced. "Make the rules and then change them or screw them up as fast as you can." Final bi law in the ITPA rulebook. Well, final unwritten but frequently applied bi law. |
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Re: Lincoln SS Garden tractors
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HMMM
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Still wondered who flag man and puller was?? |
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Re: Lincoln SS Garden tractors
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I'd like to take this time to apologize to everyone involved with the pull this past Saturday night in Lincoln IL. No words can express how disappointed I am with my actions displayed in front of so many great people. It is true I was disqualified for "going out of bounds" after another three tractors had already pulled. The competitor that I beat questioned the flag man about my run and to the best of my knowledge was told I was in bounds. Dissatisfied with that answer, he then went to Mike Miller, president of ITPA who came onto the track and changed my distance to "DQ" for out of bounds. When I asked Mike "how can you do that now", I was told to not worry about it, this is the way it is. What happened next was not my best display of conduct and for that I'm sorry. I do now and will forever believe that what happened was intentional and a display of Mike Miller's ethic shortcomings. I am not nor ever was a ITPA sponsor unlike others in my class and it is true I am the only competitor in this class from out of state. That should not matter. I felt it an honor to pull against most of the people in this class and orginization. for they are not only good tractor pullers but good people. I'm sorry things ended this way for all involved. For anyone interested, my entire quarter scale operation is for sale. The add is on www.gtpulling.com. Mike is going to continue to pull our super farm. I will help him here in the shop but doubt if I'll go pulling anymore. My heart's just not in it after this expierance. Thanks to all the great people I've meat in the pulling world. Good luck to all.
Matt Kaster |
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Re: Lincoln SS Garden tractors
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Anonymous User
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Matt,
Sorry to hear of your decision to leave pulling. Hope to see you with your dad sometime this summer (maybe Norwalk?) You can't live in the shop all of the time. Good luck and keep your head-up! DPS |
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Re: Lincoln SS Garden tractors
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Matt, Im sorry to hear about your decision. I never was a competitor in the ITPA but I did go to every event that I possibly could. I do agree that most were fierce competiors and very good people. When I heard what happened on saturday night I was FURIOUS! I dont understand why Mr Miller had to be that way. That is really an unproffesional way to conduct business. If he was unhappy with the flagmans decision he should have spoken with the flagman later and chose a different individual to flag the next time if he wanted. You have been an inspiration to many, and you have done alot to further this sport that we all love. It wont be the same with out you buddy! |
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Re: Lincoln SS Garden tractors
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Moderator Registered: 03/25/2008 Posts: 1,446 |
Matt;
I understand your frustration with not only your actions, but also with the actions that caused you to be DQ’ed . While I admire your standup attitude on your public apology, I would encourage you to take some time to reflect on your decision to leave the sport. If everyone that has had a moment of poor decision-making were to leave the sport, the number of people in the sport [with yours truly] would be smaller than it is now. Maybe a couple weeks away from the situation will give you a new prospective on your pulling career. Dick Morgan www.PULLOFF.com Independent Pulling News |
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Re: Lincoln SS Garden tractors
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Registered: 06/30/2008 Posts: 186 |
Matt, I agree with Mr. Morgan wholeheartedly. For starters, take a look at the ITPA point standings as of the end of July. Who is in first and second place? You are. That means you have spent the time and money to make every event and you are successful. If you were in the bottom of the point standings, do you really think anyone would have thrown a fit? Knowing human nature, probably not.
I don't know what all happened in Lincoln, but at least you had enough integrity to come on here an apologize. I would love to call on Mr. Miller and ask him to do the same and provide an explanation as to why he did what he did. I think he owes his flagman and puller an apology for overstepping his boundary. If he felt there was just cause for DQing you, then so be it, but address it after the pull. I have never seen in a baseball or football game where the commissioner comes out of the stands during the game and overrules an umpire's decision when the ump is on the field. They do the professional thing and speak about it after the game, but it still doesn't change what happened on the playing field. Now if there was any sort of verbal or physical confrontation after that, then that is a different issue and really never a a good excuse. But just hearing about this is bothersome. Don't quite just because of this. Seems to me there is still a legacy to be made and you don't want this instance be the final chapter. Just my thoughts. |
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Re: Lincoln SS Garden tractors
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Hey Matt,
I seen how frustrated you was and I hope you don't stop pulling because of ITPA. ITPA is going down the tubes at the all mighty hands of Mike Miller. Just look at the class numbers now,way down in most,superfarm boycotting for one. John and Andrew have run,but I haven't liked how people are treated in Millers little world for a good while now. Dave Voyles is a friend and so is Kelly,but with Kelly running in the class,he has a stake in the class and shouldnt be finish flagman. But ALL this would have been avoided if someone would have just laid down a chalk line. If you hadn't noticed,I don't run ITPA,theres a reason for that. I had some Issues with NQS last season,but I'm not letting it get me down,and this shouldnt kill the sport for you. Your a very good puller,and a great friend. |
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Re: Lincoln SS Garden tractors
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Matt, I started this thread because I knew that people would see this stuation as it is and voice their opinion. The general opinion is this. You have taken this sport to another level. I don't mean just ITPA. I mean everywhere you've gone. Getting to the top means pissing people off along the way. YOU didn't piss them off, their pissed cause they thought they were top dog and now their not!! This is the natural progression of any motorsport. Trust me, for every guy who is dissappointed in seeing you pull into the pits, there is 50 of us who smile and say "Blatzhead is here"!!! After all the years and effort you have made please don't let one dickhead like Miller make you take a walk. When you walk, they win. Get pissed, get your game face on, be better than them, and kick their ass on the track!!! Maybe you won't pull ITPA anymore. Their loss! They"ve been hillbillys long before you came along and always will be!! |
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Re: Lincoln SS Garden tractors
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Hey Matt
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Matt was hoping to see u at New Berlin,Il this weekend for shriners pull. I know they will have chalk and want to have hot equipment and a good honest time. Cold beer and band follows event. Hope to see all there (Sat Aug 14 1050 ss holy cow sled) |
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Re: Lincoln SS Garden tractors
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I heard from a VERY good source that Mike Miller gave Matt a nasty phone call about what was being said here on the internet. I rest my case on how the ITPA treats its pullers,OOPS!!!,former pullers,also,the one that was BANNED FOR LIFE. Mike,if you care about the future of ITPA,you need to take a good hard look at whats going on. I enjoy the pulling here in Illinois,but,as you came over and said "these people in the stands paid money to see a pull so we need to stay down by the wall" Well thats true but did they pay to see classes like the superfarm with 2 tractors,thats pretty sad I think. |
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Re: Lincoln SS Garden tractors
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digging a hole
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That sounds like somthing that the president of the ITPA BRUSH PULLERS would do. What a clown! If he has a problem with what is being said on the net, then he needs to get aquainted with his key board and make things right. This is seeming more and more like a personal attack against Matt and not just whats good for business. In fact its the opposite its TERRIBLE for buisiness! Miller should be worrying about how to improve the show and how to improve the competion and how to promote fairness and give a performance to the crowd! He surely has not shown how to promote fairness. How can he expect to improve the show and the competion when there are no pullers? He surely cannot provide a performance to the crowd without doing the above mentioned. (well not a positive performance anyway). To all of you remaining pullers with the ITPA, I honestly wish you the absolute best. I seriously hope that this situation or one just as ridiculous ever happens to you. |
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Re: Lincoln SS Garden tractors
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in my opinon
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ITPA is done after this mess. |
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Re: Lincoln SS Garden tractors
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matt i no where u r coming from, but selling and staying away is not the answer look and listing to me you have alot more freinds then miller .do not let one person push u away from some thing u are so good at.start you a club up the other pullers will fallo u. the last thing i will leave u is a saying my son would say when he pulled.[ when u are in the middle or the back nobody nos u, but when u are on top they all will throw some pretty big rocks to get u down.] do not let miller take you down. |
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Re: Lincoln SS Garden tractors (let's be reasonable)
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This is all getting a little blown out of proportion.
ITPA has some problems in regards to the administration not being proactive enough in enforcing preperation, rules, and regulations. That is one issue. In regards to Lincoln and the 1050 SuperStock garden show, a problem in ruling was spotted DURING the pull, the rulebook was referenced and the on-track flagman/judge reversed HIS OWN RULING completely and accordingly to how the process is laid out in the ITPA rulebook. The problem was brought to the attention of both the track judges and the president of the organization. No one had thier authority ran over or stepped on. There is a clear and definate written method for reversing rulings. This procedure was followed to a tee. The procedure for reversing a ruling or even re-visiting a ruling DOES NOT involve cussing, name calling, or yelling in front of hundreds or thousands of ITPA fans and pullers on the track, during the event. Matt Kaster is an excellent puller on many levels and his actions that evening were uncharacteristic of him. His emotions and discontent, I feel, lay with the fact that he along with a number of other pullers were disqualified after they believed thier footages to be final. (No one else got in arguments with track officials that escalated to cussing and name calling.) I don't think that one person there wanted anything about that night to result in Matt being kicked out, but it has been done before and I'm sure it will happen again. In the end, all that happened was a number of guys went out-of-bounds and ALL got disqualified accordingly. No puller that was DQ'd appears to be contesting that they were clearly out of bounds?! It was seen by hundreds of people and everyone was scratching thier heads as to why pulls were being measured and not DQ'd? Luckily ITPA fixed it according to protocol. It's a shame that ITPA allowed a pull of this caliber to go on without white chalk lines, however this has been done before and handled in a fair manner. Anyone who has been around tractor pulling for a while has seen issues like this but typically at lower end events. The other point I want to make is that regardless of your class of competition, there is a very good reason (TOTALLY aside from ITPA as an administrating body) that ITPA is still alive and well. THE COMPETITORS! There is more to a pulling club than the administration. There is a good reason a number of folks from many hours and states away make the trek to a small number of events and pay the money to play. ITPA has the stiffest gardentractor pulling with the best competition, the largest crowds, and the best payout in the world. 6 pulls in front of thousands of fans against the meanest tractors and drivers for the best payout. This is the case in diesel trucks, prostock tractor, 2wd trucks etc... ITPA just happens to be the playground for the finest machines and pullers in the country. People dont travel accross the country because they like the president or the track judge, they travel cause they want to compete against the best pullers! That is why they can pull 22 superstock garden tractors in on a week night over and over again. Anyone of the 22 could win. Nobody has been able to dominate the series for years. That is called competition. |
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Re: Lincoln SS Garden tractors (let's be reasonable)
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dedicated fan
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I belive that the origional issue was that those other pullers were further out of the 'imaginary' out of bounds line and were DQ'd on the spot. Matt was the only competitor that was DQ'd AFTER the fact. Hence the flagman probably did not feel that he was out of bounds? Further more, when asked for an explaination Miller declined to explain to his puller. This was an act of rudeness that quickly escalated the situation. I do belive that Mr. Kaster already apoligized sincerely for his actions. The issue is not that ITPA is a poor organization, it is that good leadership was non existent or was poorly poorly poorly represented during this situation. |
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Re: Lincoln SS Garden tractors (let's be reasonable)
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gt puller
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This is all a messed up deal,it's funny thats the second time those same tractors have been kicked out of ITPA. It might not of happened the way it did if Matt was from Illinois and someone different worked on his motors, there is bad blood in GT pulling at all levels and the illinois guys dont like certain pullers and series from other state just like the other states don't care for the Illinois bunch BUT I dont think a life time banning for a little cussing and name calling. I thought ITPA deal was a year and ten days for most things,but I guess Mike Miller makes the calls. I do know one thing I wouldn't being taking no ugly phone calls because somebody let the cat out of the bag on a pulling message board cause we'd cross paths again and it name calling would be the least of what would happen. ITPA will go on and Matt needs to keep pulling good luck to both |
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Re: Lincoln SS Garden tractors (let's be reasonable)
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You're right some of Matt's tractors used to belong to some guys who also got completely out of garden tractor pulling.
Those individuals also got kicked out of ITPA for fighting and throwing metal objects while having temper tantrums in the pits. Who would want to pull in club that that allows talking back to the judges and official and allows fighting in the pits. I know this is common place in some small clubs. Do you think the NQS officials would let you cuss at them very long before they took your points away? How much cussing before you get kicked out? Maybe there is some reasonable amount of name calling you would allow? How would you handle out-of-bounds situations? Measured where they go out, or DQ'd? Are there different levels of out-of-bounds? |
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Re: Lincoln SS Garden tractors (let's be reasonable)
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That is simply not true.
Matt was DQ'd at the same time Galen S. was DQ'd, both occuring well after each had made thier pulls. The problem occured when Matt's tractor was flagged red to stop for going out-of bounds, but along with some others his pull was measured. Apparently the flagman had set a precident earlier by measureing out of bounds pulls and not DQing the guys. (I would imagine this happened because they were over halfway through the class and realized they had stepped in the sh*t and needed white lines.) Galen S. and probably a couple others clearly went out of bounds before Matt, but due to the lack of white lines, the official must have decided to allow them to keep thier measurements and only chose to flag them red to stop for crossing the line, pulls still counted. When Matt pulled, he clearly did the same thing (got flagged for going over the line and stopped), which did not look like a problem up to that point. Following this logic, Matt should have been allowed to keep his measurement which would have put him in the lead at that time. Of course, the field of gentlemen who did not go out of bounds had some questions and began looking at the rules and brought it up to judges. Never at any point did the track judges claim that someone was not out, only whether they should be measured or DQ'd. Charles Vogel, pulled later and put over 5 foot on the leader, (who was no longer Matt K, regardless of his DQ or not, measured or not), BUT, Chuck went of of bounds, CLEARLY out of bounds, sled out of bounds... the flagman DQ'd Chuck instantly. Chuck's son, Kevin, asked Dave V, the flagman, why he got DQ'd and no one else did? Dave V. said "because the sled went over" (...the imaginary line...) Chuck took the DQ like a man because he was obviously out of bounds and had no grounds for contesting this (that's experience and sportsmanship or as Chuck would say, "know what hill to die on.."). If anyone got screwed it was Chuck Vogel. He did the same thing everyone else did, but got DQ'd instantly despite the fact that he would have had the winning pull by a tractor length. How do you think all the guys would have felt if they let Chuck keep his measured hook after he went out of bounds? Ask Geno Zacha, the sled operator, he saw the whole thing go down. Thier are plenty of people who know exactly what happened. Either the guys that went out of bounds get measured or they get DQ'd. What would you suggest? Either way, Matt didn't even come close to having the winning the pull, he just lost his temper. A whole bunch of other guys got DQ'd and kept it together. The real blame is that a pro pull was put on with no white lines! This really doesn't have a thing todo with Matt K. it's just ruling on the track. Some of you internet whores are trying to make this more dramatic than it need be and most likely are trying capitalize on ITPA's shortcomings. Matt pulled with ITPA for a couple years and to my knowledge got along well with everyone he travelled so far to compete with. He had many friends and I saw him enjoying beer's with many a competitors. It's a sad day to see a professional like Matt get so easily discouraged by one bum night. I believe that as he gets older he'll see that life is full of these type of situations and learn to roll with it. I hope he changes his mind and keeps pulling, his character is stronger than this. I even bet you could get the gardentractor guys to fight for him to get him put back in if he really wanted to fix it. |
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Re: Lincoln SS Garden tractors (let's be reasonable)
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Curious GT Puller
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I don't know which ITPA pulls you're attending! Thousands of fans? People driving across the country to pull? I've attended probably a hundred ITPA pulls in my life and have never seen that!! Let's look at Knoxville. If you took a familiy of four and went into the pits it would have cost you 92 dollars and the show sucked!!! You make some very good points and I agree on some of them. But, how could such a so called proffesional organization build a track without white lines and then put a flagman out there who doesn't know the rules? As you said, for the best pullers in the country. Also, don't forget that when you use the word protocol that it's ITPA's protocol which doesn't match up to anybody else's in the country. And you said someone was trying to use this to discredit ITPA. They don't need any help from anyone. Their doing a fine job on their own. Do you have any idea how many tractors (big and small) who are in Illinois who refuse to pull with ITPA? LOTS!! Me included. |
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Re: Lincoln SS Garden tractors (let's be reasonable)
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dedicated fan
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Ditto |
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Re: Lincoln SS Garden tractors (let's be reasonable)
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Registered: 04/04/2008 Posts: 1,522 |
10 minutes of time putting lime down would have prevented all this.i would think this would have been dealt with at the drivers meeting. |
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I get what your saying brightred
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gt puller
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You are correct in alot of things that you said but this hole deal wouldn't even be on here if they would have had LINES down!!!! Do you think Mike Miller would have let them run any mods,ss mini, 2wd etc on a track with no lines? HELL NO ITPA don't care about the GT boys all they want is their membership money ( why not 20-25 tractors) thats almost double of any other class but they don't get to run on any good tracks, they get stuck up on horse race tracks etc thats not right either. Yes Matt should have had some control. I think with GT pulling it's better to just measure where they go out of bounds,but you have to do one or the other not some ok some not. It's a bad deal all the way around for everyone involved Matt was a good addition to a really good class off guys and tractors I just think Mike needs to rethink the life banning that's worse than if you get caught cheating,I'd rather be called names and take a cussing then get beat by someone that is cheating but thats just my opinion. |
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Re: I get what your saying brightred
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agreed!
I completely agree that the ENTIRE problems stems from ITPA's lack of white lines. That is indefensible and atrocious at an event put on by an organization that aspires to be more professional than that. Knoxville was crazy hot and probably one of the worst fairs of the season. Imagine a beer garden with no one it! My whole point is that ITPA can be somewhat of a disaster in many regards, but as long as quality drivers and machines are thier in stiff amounts a good time will be had. Some classes are suffering, but eventually classes will get dropped/added and stuff will work out. Can anyone complain about the diesel truck classes not putting on a show, prostock had a great turn out in altamont in front of probably a 1000 people or more. Good equipment finds it's ways to a good show, what do you think matt kaster was doing driving four or five hours to every event way down in illinois? |
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Re: I get what your saying brightred
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was at altamont both nights, seemed like their were more 5800# mods than have been the last 2 years, the prostock class was the best i have seen in a couple years at altamont, and on wed night had more 2wd trucks with around 12 coming from 3-4 different states to pull, was probably one of the better shows in altamont, in the last couple of years... |
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Some observations
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I've been following the events of Lincoln on the web. I have some experience in running professional pulling organizations, I think the problems at Lincoln was not by the flagman or the pullers. I wasn't there, but based upon the comments I can make these assumptions. 1. no chalk lines, 2. maybe a driver's meeting prior to the event to point out the fact of no white lines and maybe tell the pullers where the out-of-bounds line is (like a bern or some demarcation line along the pulling area), 3, setting a prescedence of changing your flagmans call which must of been 15 or 20 minutes after the tractor(s) left the track. Its unfortunate there were no chalk lines (don't know of any other professional pulling organization that don't use them). What I would have a real problem with is the prescedence set by the actions of Mr. Miller. Does this mean if a puller sees something wrong at a pull, video tapes it, sends it to Mr. Miller, he says the puller should be out, then tells the flagman to change it and here it is 2 weeks later and you've been DQ'd. Whats the difference if its four tractors later, 20 minutes, 20 hours or 20 days, its still after the tractor unhooked from the sled and has left the pulling track. In the NQS, we video tape all the events and if there is a questions we can refer to the tape. Just last season we had an issue in a pull off and some mis-communication between the two flagamen (flagperson), the puller attempted to take off but failed to do so (pull over, only one attempt in pull offs), But the puller was able to restart and make the pull, in this instance some disagreements was voiced by some of the other pullers and the decision went to the board of directors and they ruled with the finish line flagman of the two attempts, unfortunately the board didn't check the video because watching the video is was painfully obvious there were two attempts, but at least they made the correct call. I've pulled with the ITPA in the past on a couple of different ocasions, once in the early 1970's and again in the early 2000's. Over that time the number of gardens have gone from over 100 garden tractors and over 70 events to about 20 regulars and a handful of events, is that the right direction, I am pretty sure that garden tractor pulling is more popular now then it was 35 years ago, you can't argue the numbers. I know in the NQS over the past decade has gone from an average of 200 entries or less per event to averaging over 350 per event. The NQS 1050 SS was about 40 tractors to now regularly over 100 tractors. Just some observations. Right now if I were the ITPA, I would just call the Lincoln event as a rainout give everyone show up (hook) points and try some chalk next time and let the flagman do his job. |
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Re: Some observations
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I was a spectator at that pull, BUT the call was made before the end of the pull / right at the end of the class, probably 5 minutes from the time the guy that got in trouble pulled.
Three guys got DQ'd, including the guy who would have won the pull hands down. The guy that started yelling and cussing in front of the crowd and finger wagging to the track officials was not near the lead or even close to winning even if they had let him run out of bounds and keep his pull which he obviously wanted todo. The original ruling was made by the flagman, then the flagman was shown the rulebook and the flagman corrected the ruling immediately on the track. I watched an ITPA guy walk up to the flagman with a rulebook and hand it to him. I was spectating from the end of the track. You could see how out of bounds this guy was (all these guys), I don't know how anyone thinks they can argue this. None of the other guys argued when they got DQ'd. One other guy got DQ'd and even pulled before the mad guy, so he would have more to argue about than the guy that flipped his top. I think the flagman just flaked out and needed a rulebook in his back pocket. I think all you jokers who weren't there should shut up. ITPA also has to answer to the spectators. Everyone (fans) could see that a few things were wrong and I think the flagman handled it correctly. I bet ITPA will never forget white lines again! |
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Re: Some observations
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are you kidding me
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What constitutes "out of bounds" or WAY "out of bounds" when there is NO CHALK LINE!?!? How can you tell for sure or is that just your opinoin of where "out of bounds" should have been the way that you see it? See....... You dont know, because there was no drawn boundary. |
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Re: Some observations
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FACT: I WAS THERE.
FACT: Every guy that got DQ'd (in the end) was also flagged RED by the flagman on the track at the time of thier pulls. FACT: The reason they ALL got flagged RED is cause they were ALL out of bounds. Go ask the flagman, he made that call on the track at the time of each pull. QUESTION: So why did the track judge measure the some pulls? MY ANSWER: I ASSUME the pulls were measured WHERE THE GUYS WENT OUT, due to the fact that NO WHITE LINES existed! (stupid move ITPA) So that leaves us with two choices.... 1) DQ the guys that went out of bounds (which is what happened). -OR- 2) Measure the pulls where the guys went out-of-bounds and let them keep the results. What do you want todo? |
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Re: Some observations
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Are you kidding me
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My question is???????? What constituted the "out of bounds" if there were no white lines????????? DUH! |
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Re: Some observations
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What is out of bounds with no white lines?
Nobody knows it's a judgement on the shoulders of the flagman. So they should have measured everyone where they went out of bounds or stopped, right? No DQ's for out of bounds, measure them where they go out, right? Then why did they DQ the winning hook, that guy on the blue tractor that blew the end off the track? He got screwed, but he didn't throw a fit or yell at anyone. |
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Re: Some observations
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You've got rocks in your head!
The NQS series is for the pullers, friends, and family. I don't think i've ever seen a fan attend an NQS event that wasn't involved garden tractor pulling. Don't get me wrong, but no fan would sit through two days of the same tractors being re-arranged and and given a different class title to run down crappy sand tracks in front of no fans for little money. I like the NQS, but i'm a die hard puller and NQS is where you go when you want to pull during the winter. That's it. I also understand that one of the guys who seems to be stirring this up is the guy who had a hand in Matt's engines, he also plays a role in NQS. NQS has had enough questions raised in the past about certain guys getting special treatment, some engines not getting tore down or tech'd, position drawings for classes not being random, people getting intimidated at pulls and told to keep thier mouths shut... Don't get NQS involved and don't act like NQS is some staple of justice or great show, it's good, but it ain't that good. It's what is out there. |
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Re: Some observations
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I haven't ever seen any GT engines torn down at an ITPA event ever or even heard of one being torn down. And yes Matt does run our motors, and for that matter I built all of those tractors he ran (although it was 12 years ago). As far as sand tracks, I don't think I would go that far, sand (limestone) is what is in Altamont, and the old track in front of the grandstand in Springfield would be likened to concrete with dust on it. Don't get in an arguement about crap tracks, In general the tracks the gardens pull on in ITPA are way worse. FYI, the NQS should be a full series next year with the season running from January thru December (no pulls in July or August). |
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Re: Some observations
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Guys,
I understand it was my actions that have prompted this discussion, but I ask everyone to please let it lay. I've done enough damage to ITPA and the sport of pulling already and don't want NQS or others drug through the mud on this or any other forum. Thanks and again I am sorry. Matt Kaster |
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Re: Some observations
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Anonymous User
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Except Matt's appology,read what he just posted and leave it alone. We all make mistakes and we all have to put our pants on the same way. Who nows you might be in Matt's shoes someday! Good luck to you Matt. Jon Rubey |
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Re: Some observations
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Anonymous User
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amen |
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Re: Some observations
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Registered: 04/04/2008 Posts: 1,522 |
i have been going to the nqs pulls in ohio since it was started.every track i have seen is way better than any i pull on outside.i have seen many heads pulled off to check cuin,and every tractor has thier fuel checked.i would say there will never be a nqs pull without boundary lines,and at the nqs pulls the gt tractors are the stars of the show,not filler classes like at most places.thanks julian |
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Re: Some observations
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Precisely the response that NQS has became known for....
Arrogance. I see a little trend here in all the folks that are stirring the crap: None of them pull in ITPA, none of them attended the event in question, but all of them are haters and have something ($$$) to gain by seeing ITPA suffer. Matt K. has way more character than this and he has shown it. It's unfortunate that he got out. I hope he changes his mind. Strange he didn't stick around to run NQS? |
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Re: Some observations
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Anonymous User
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Let's all respect Matt's wishes.It's a shame this happened but it's over with now.Enough of name calling.Nobody or no circuit is perfect.In a competition sport,there is always gonna be problems.Go out and support the pulls of your choice.If you don't like how they are run go somewhere else or get involved with the operations.All the people that put on pulls weather it's Julian at NQS or mike miller at ITPA spend alot of hours giving us a place to enjoy our sport.It's a thankless job at best.Just remember that if it wasn't for people that were willing to sarafice their time and possibly their sanity,to put pulls on at fairs, local town festivals, or national level, we as pullers have no place to go.As for you Matt, you know there is always a cold one waiting for you at my trailer anytime. Carl Zimmerman...Zimmerman Motorsports |
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Big Dave
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AMEN, brother Carl! |
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hmm
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believe me, this is NOT over with yet. |
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digging a hole
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HMM what else is there to say? @#$%& hit the fan, ITPA handled themselves poorly, they will learn from this hopefully and do it correctly the next time. The NQS is the NBA of garden tractor pulling, hands down! If you dont belive that, then come on out and play and see how hard it is to make the finals. All clubs have weakpoints, theres not much more to discuss, so unless your going to change the entire sport of garden tractor pulling, this conversation is probably over with. |
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Re: Some observations
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jdc
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They should do away with the class. They gripe and complain all time about stuff that don't amount to anything. It is just a waste of time at a pull. The so called bad call didn't affect things in the real world much because the sun still comes up in the east. Maybe by next year they will all get mad and quit. No such luck. |
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hmm
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it may be over with on this message board, but it is NOT over with yet. |
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board member
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One thing about it if this the way this class wants to act they won't be coming to our fair. |
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ITPA Fan
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As I can understand not wanting the negativity connected to your pull. I would just like to point out that 99% of the negative comments are coming from non ITPA members and ITPA haters. I know that pullers enjoy coming to lincoln every year and my family enjoy watching the Gardens at your event every year. Thanks for your time. |
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board member
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I am not from Lincoln. |
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think about it
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outside observer
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Every state has lots of good tractors. Everyone has people who they like to pull with. Everyone chooses your own organization to pull with or multiple ones. All everyone is doing is hurtig the sport of pulling. We are limited as garden tractors to places we can pull and it should be an honor to pull anywhere someone asks us to pull. I see and understand both sides. Right or wrong it happened. I consider myself to be good friends with itpa pullers, hilliard pullers, wisconsin pullers, mizz, ky, the list goes on. I've met my best friends in pullig and i hate to see people go after each other like this. All it does is make all of us look bad. I look forward toward pulling with all of you all over he midwest and i think if you think about it this hasn't ruined anyone's life in the long run. It may have taken some of the fun temporarily out of the sport but we need to settings aside our differences and realize life is full of opinions. That's all this is. Whether you pull a local sticker or itpa/nqs think about where we came from and how mug of a blessing it is to be where we are today. And i hope matt doesn't quit. He will be missed |
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Re: Some observations
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mystic eye
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The problem as i SEE it. Them south of Peoria brush pullers forgot the chalk!
Then some people in charge decided it was OK to pull without lines. Then Mr. Miller appeared from the grandstand to fix himself up real good!! |
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No It's Not
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No It's Not
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I prefer to let My words to the sponsors do my speaking. Maybe the loss of a sponsor or two will wake up the ITPA & Mike Miller and a few pullers that started this whole thing. A copy of this letter goes out on Monday to Monsanto, John Deere, Cen-Pe-Co, Herrin/Basf, Pioneer and Burrus.
I was there, I didn’t like it at all. I urge others to contact the sponsors and recommend they no longer sponsor the ITPA but to consider other pulling organizations. To whom it may concern. The reason for this letter is in regards to your sponsorship of the Illinois Tractor Pullers Association. Also known as the ITPA. I realize in your type of business that this is a good fit for advertising but I believe you need to reconsider the ITPA as a form of advertising. I believe you will find after reading this letter you do not need this type of organization to represent. Mr. Mike Miller is not a good leader of the ITPA, recently at a pull in Lincoln Il Mr. Miller took the opportunity to totally ignore the rules of the organization to fix the outcome of an event and preventing an out of state competitor from moving closer to a championship. His reasoning for this is completely out of line. If I were a sponsor of such an organization I would reconsider being involved with this type of character. He truly will go out of his way to prevent out of state pullers from doing will. This also applies to many of the pullers of this organization. Mr. Miller also managed to bring a shouting match to the track with his poor handling of the situation. Swearing echoed through the stands for all to hear truly making everyone in attendance to wonder what type of person this is and why any company would want to be associated with this organization (ITPA). I have no choice but to not use product that represent or sponsor the ITPA due to the inconsiderate actions of Mr. Miller. While you may not care about how one individual feels there are a huge number of people offended by Mr. Millers actions and the actions of many of the pullers that will not take the time to write you but will tell others. There are other pulling organizations out there that can use your support but I ask you to please reconsider the ITPA. Thank You for your time. |
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Re: Lincoln SS Garden tractors
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Posts: 756 |
Matt:
Sorry to hear of the problems you had. I wish I could tell you that this kind of thing would never happen anyplace else. Not true, unfortunatly sometimes things get said that we wish hadnt and we feel we cant take back. I have had to apologise several times for letting my emotions run away with my mouth. I do admire your apology here in print, I was not man enough to do so in my case. I hope you take some time and soul search to make sure quitting the sport you obviously love. Hope the decision you make is the right one for you. \ Best wishes Bob aks gonzo 1066 |
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