04:45:27pm, Wednesday, May 08, 2024
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6030 in farm stock
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Concerned Promoter
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My question is what do you do or can you do about a "stock" lol JD 6030 running away with the farm stock class. What rules can be implied to make it "fair"? This tractor puts 20 feet on farm stock but complains if he has to run a hotter class. Jd guys say its only fair they cant help JD out classed everyone else. What is a good way to make things fair yet keep everyone happy? Your opinions would be appreciated. |
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Re: 6030 in farm stock
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Anonymous User
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good luck with that one, I don't think there are many "stock" tractors winning in farm stock classes,unless you can check cubic inches, I don't think you'll ever have it even. |
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Re: 6030 in farm stock
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mb
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We have been through this at our pulls. It is a very tough problem. The only rule that has been effective is to have non P-pump classes and then have an open class. However if you get rid of one power house there will always be another one to take it's place.
Good luck! |
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Re: 6030 in farm stock
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Anonymous User
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A modest speed limit,say 6MPH,would really level the playing field. That's what we do at our local pulls and it works well. |
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Re: 6030 in farm stock
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One thought
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One thought. You may get one class 6030less by lowering weight below 12000 make sure
all run factory wheels and wide fronts, I think a 6030 has a rough time in a 11,500 class |
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Re: 6030 in farm stock
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long time puller
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ok...start knit picking about the wheels and/or rims....yeah, some guys are running 6030's with pressed rims and using dual wheel hubs or a plate welded on axle...all to reduce weight. Since dropping weight ever been something that hasn't been in tractor pulling?? Do you really think the lighter wheels are making "hp"????? Sorry, it's the biggest horse in the barn, it should do better....not saying always, but when it comes into the pull with more factory cubes, and pump...I don't know...just offering my opinion. When they get beat you will always hear somebody talking about how it isn't always about the cubes...a lot more enters into it. |
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Re: 6030 in farm stock
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Posts: 508 |
well if this tractor is pulling in a sanctioned organization, and meets their rules.then you have no choice unless you run an local event with your own rules! Say 510ci limit,3100 rpm limit,uncut tires,20.8,38 max. then you will have successfully eliminated your perceived problem! My opinion is that the JD is at a disadvantage simply because it does not have the luxury of T.A. same as the AC D21. |
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Re: 6030 in farm stock
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MIkey
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Well this is rather easy. Two options. 1. stock cubes, which will be a 531, NOT a 619. Just look at the engine an you can see the difference. 2. Drop the weight down to 10,500. With working PTO, 3pt hitch he will never make the weight. If this tractor is pushing alot of your other pullers away then you need to make a domination rule. You could flat tell the guy that your too hot and not to come back or make a class for those "Hotter" tractors. |
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Re: 6030 in farm stock
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Dont Play Anymore
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Surely theres a Moline with motor big enough to be competitive....but Its not green so you'ld be a nobody |
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Re: 6030 in farm stock
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Tommy
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What is a TA on a D-21? |
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Re: 6030 in farm stock
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Allis Chalmers D21 - transmission
I&T Shop Manual 1963 - 1969 Allis Chalmers D21 specifications... Transmission: Gears: 8 forward and 2 reverse Comments: Transmission is controlled by means of a range control knob and a gear shift lever. The range knob is located below the steering wheel, pushing it forward puts the tractor in high range, pull it back engages low range. The gear shift selects one of four forward gears, or reverse. The tractor must be stopped and clutch used to change gears or range. ******* Must be the high/ low range, I haven't been on a D21 in 25 years, so I looked it up. Could this be what they are calling a TA? |
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Re: 6030 in farm stock
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Posts: 508 |
I meant D21 has no TA just like the JD 6030 has none!! I hope this will make sense to some! |
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Re: 6030 in farm stock
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no harm done, I could not remember.
Does some later Allis have something like a TA? |
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Re: 6030 in farm stock
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Something I read called it a "Power Director," which came on the 190/190XT. |
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Re: 6030 in farm stock
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Registered: 04/07/2008 Posts: 781 |
make him run run less rpm or some kind of handicap, they have a bigger turbo and a pump, cant outlaw p pumps the newer tractors run them also |
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Re: 6030 in farm stock
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Registered: 05/20/2008 Posts: 258 |
mph all the way.
otherwise good luck. |
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Re: 6030 in farm stock
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Longer chain and or raise the chain, worked back in the black top days. |
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Re: 6030 in farm stock
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pull82
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i would definetely look into rpms and also mph. both would be great ways to level the playing field. |
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Re: 6030 in farm stock
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Registered: 09/14/2009 Posts: 109 |
let everyone have a p pump! |
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Re: 6030 in farm stock
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Registered: 06/27/2008 Posts: 83 |
the only way to tell the difference between a 531 and a 619 are the numbers behind the starter and the size of the turbo to after cooler hole in the intake manifold. but whos to say they are not running the smaller set up on the 619? Everything else can be made to look like the 531 set up. |
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Re: 6030 in farm stock
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just a thought
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Limit the cubes to anything from 466 to 500 cubes.That puts the 531 out of that class.Then they can all play except the 6030 and the V-8 massey.That keeps the Deere 466 and the IH 466 in the same class.Should be a good show then.Plain and simple,leave out the big blocks.If I wore a green hat I wouldnt be very proud beating the 466's with my 619.They all have ID tags on them from the factory that denotes the engine.If the tag is altered or removed to disguise engine size,then maker the tractor illegal for the class.There are a lot of simple cures.I just stated a few. |
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Re: 6030 in farm stock
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Registered: 06/27/2008 Posts: 83 |
That also leaves out the 585 moline/white and oliver with the cat that i belive is a 636. also all the 570 ih tractors that are all over out there. |
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Re: 6030 in farm stock
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Registered: 03/23/2009 Posts: 43 |
Your only real option here is a speed limit. Keep them at 6mph and it should be a fair contest for the true farm stock tractors. |
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Re: 6030 in farm stock
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Concerned Promoter
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We run a pace class and a no pace class for farm stock and we also have hotter classes. We have bigger cubic inch masseys come and pull and 1568 ih's with p-pumps. Its just seems to be those couple of guys that dont mind beating a farmers worked over tractor but really hate losing to a hotter "pulling tractor" in a different class. We thought about a cubic inch limit but the big masseys and 1568 ih that can hardly compete with the better running 1066's would be eliminated. The 6030 dosent pull pace. What to Do???? Lose 2 or three tractors or lose 12-15 |
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Re: 6030 in farm stock
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In your heavy farm classes, you could try putting 2 more feet in the chain, and raise it up on the pan 6 inches (if they can), air up the back axle on the sled, it will hold down the pan out of the hole and then you can slow down the box. The other thing that we did back in the day, was factory wheel and front weights only in Farm (we called it Field class). This is just like 20 years ago, some things never change. Then it was a 4010, (3010/4020 clone) that got down to 6500, chasing the 560's and olivers down to 5500, that chased the M's and G's down to 4500, to send the WD's,A's and H's home for good. Its a tough call, somehow you need to keep the folks in the stands happy.
I wish you luck |
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Re: 6030 in farm stock
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Registered: 03/23/2009 Posts: 43 |
If the guy with the 6030 is pulling in the unpaced class only then you need to work on the sled setup or the rest of the class needs to step up their game. If you call it farm stock but there is no pace then thats no longer stock. |
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Re: 6030 in farm stock
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Not Needed
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The only one they need to lose is YOU Concerened Promotor! YOU are the problem not the other pullers. Do your pull a big favor and get out. Then that pull will be fine! |
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Re: 6030 in farm stock
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history repeats
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In addition to the things already mentioned (banning p pumps, light weight classes, speed limit), the way the sled is set up can also help level the playing field. Don't let them get up and run with it. Have your sled operator make adjustments to make the sled start hard and pull hard from the beginning, gradually increasing resistance down the track, much the way the sled would be run for an antique class. This will not handicap the true farm stockers, and significantly lessens the advantage of ground speed and makes ground speed difficult or impossible to attain in the first place. The road gear pullers will not be able to come out of the hole and/or won't get on top of the turbo. If they do get the sled moving in road gear, they will soon tire of replacing clutches. If they drop a gear or two, you have effectively done the same thing a speed limit would do. |
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Re: 6030 in farm stock
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all over again
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The farm stock pulling all but dried up around here years ago for this very reason. The farm stock classes became 6030 classes because it's damn hard and expensive to get anything else to run with one and still pass tech. Your only realistic options are to make a speed limit rule (which may chase everyone off anyway) or an outright ban on P pumps backed up with a "model of pump must be correct for make and model of tractor" rule to keep the 6030 guys from showing up with an A pump. That said, if this 6030 of yours is consistently putting 20 feet on the field, then he needs to move up a class or the field needs to step up to the class they are in. Those 6030's are tough, no question about it, but that's pretty lopsided. |
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Re: 6030 in farm stock
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Anonymous User
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There is a reason why John Deere survived when other companys bellied up! dont blame the player, blame the game. |
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Re: 6030 in farm stock
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Concerned Promoter
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The problem is most of the tractors we have in the farm stock class are local farmers. Then you get a couple guys that come and clean them up with a "Pulling Tractor" that just happens to fit in the farm stock class. What i am trying to say is; what do you do to try and make it fair for the local 100 cow dairy farmer that has a worked over field ready fair season pulling tractor that wants to see how his tractor will do against other worked over field ready fair season pulling tractors and not have someone come in that pulls a farm stock tractor that arrives in an enclosed trailer from 100 miles away. Now i'm not kidding myself i know the only thing that beats money is more money and maybe sometimes even more money, but come on why doesnt this guy put some more money in his tractor and move and run with the hotter classes. This guy is pushing smoke 40 feet in the air when everyone else is only pushing 20. All i want to do is make everyone happy. We cant afford to lose any more competitors in any division. Thanks for all your opinions past and hopefully more to come. |
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Re: 6030 in farm stock
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Anonymous User
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In farm stock ,make light classes 6 mph,in heavy make 10 mph. Seems to work good for farm tractors! |
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Re: 6030 in farm stock
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alkyfan
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your biggest mistake is trying to make everone happy, aint going to happen! you, most likely, are going to have a dominant tractor like that any where you pull "farm stock", people are competitive at any level. is there money involved in these pulls or is it for fun/ trophy? if his tractor fits the rules for the class, do you truly want to change the rules. whats to say someone else isnt going to come in and be dominant with the new rules?is there ever truly an even playing field, look at the ntpa or other organized pulling sanctioning bodies: you almost always have certain dominant vehicles in each class. i know we are talking farm stock here, just using that as an example. as far as him( or pullers like him) putting more money in their vehicle to step it up to the next level,maybe sometimes that next level would cost them to much. would you rather that person not pull at all or do what they can afford, and run in a class whose rules they fit when they started pulling. |
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Re: My experience in southern Indiana
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Registered: 07/06/2008 Posts: 1,347 |
Last year, I went to a pull in Columbus, IN that ran 4 classes- I can't remember exact weights, but I believe they ran a 11,500 8mph, 13,000 10mph, 13,000 12mph, and 13,000 open farm.
Due to some circumstances beyond their control, the pull ran late and I didn't get to stay for all of it. I will say there were several tough running 6030s from Indiana and Kentucky. Even though this was a farm stock pull, these guys were for all practical purposes pro farm tractors (and in fact several have pulled in the Pro Farm class at Gordyville). From what I saw, in the 8mph class, blowing smoke 40 feet in the air was not an advantage, and I believe a red tractor won. In the 13000lb 10 mph class, I can't remember which brand won, but it was competitive, and the 6030s didn't seem to have any advantage. They ran the open farm next and I left after a few tractors, but with no speed limit from the few I saw, the 6030s would have dominated. The moral of this story is at 10 mph (maybe even 12), the 6030s did not dominate. Now, I will add, even the IHs were spruced up a bit from the field. I haven't been to other farm stock pulls so cannot say if the event I saw in southern Indiana was atypical from what most farm stock pulls are. |
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Re: My experience in southern Indiana
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don't hate the player
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This ain't a question of what's fair for the brand or competitor, it's a question of what makes the best show. Butts in the seats is what pays the bills, and kowtowing to one tractor at the expense of running off several others ain't in the best interest of your show. |
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Re: My experience in southern Indiana
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Anonymous User
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I run a turned up farm tractor that fits all farm stock rules in my area and is small cubes. When I go to one area pull I am sometimes get asked to move up to hot farm-Pro farm. When I run with hot farm-Pro farm I dont do well but still have fun and don’t leave, so move him up he will not leave because he hauled his tractor to far not to hook it. Most understand if a promoter has a lot of straight turned up farm tractors he wants the locals to put on a show for family and friends, but there is always a hot tractor. Remember someone has to win and someone will take his place. Most farm stock pulls I go to have a local favorite and if he doesn’t win the winner must be cheating, NO ONE IS STOCK. The pulls around me only let P-pumps in one farm class so all the 6030s and others w/P-pumps are together. U have to do what’s best for your show if u lose 8 tractors because of 2 simple math. Just my .02 |
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Re: My experience in southern Indiana
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10 MPH
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In my area we run 3000 rpm 10 mph classes with a long sled chain..No one tractor totally dominates and no one has broken the bank building a tractor....They come down the track fast enough to keep the crowd happy. |
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Re: 6030 in farm stock
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Registered: 01/16/2010 Posts: 56 |
Have the sled weight up to start really hard. If you run factory rpms, you'll be hard pressed to find a 6030 that has an easy time getting off line in road gear if the sled starts hard enough. They'll either choke or slip the clutch 150 feet(seen it done). Been to many events where I watched 6030 after 6030 go home with no distance because they made 2 attempts in road gear and couldnt get it off the line. Making the sled start hard is fair to everyone because your lesser hp tractors might have already dropped a gear and will not have much problem. Another solution is drop the weight of the class or make 2 weight classes. |
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Re: 6030 in farm stock
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little john
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I've seen a pull that had a pace and non pace class. Everyone there knew who had the hot tractors so everyone was given the option to pull either non pace and pull with the hotter tractors or pull pace. This worked well. There were some true farm tractors that still wanted to run some speed and see what they could do. Crowd got to see a good pull both ways. |
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Re: 6030 in farm stock
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Registered: 03/05/2011 Posts: 202 |
I have heard of fair pulls requiring all competitors to be from either that county or one of the immediately adjoining counties. That would keep people with way-too-hot tractors from coming 100 miles to dominate the locals.
A speed limit would level the field, but I'm sure the locals are having more fun and putting on a better show without a speed limit. |
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Re: 6030 in farm stock
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Anonymous User
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In my area the out-of-field heavy classes have a 6 or 8 MPH limit,it lets any local farmers come to town with their truly stock tractor and have a real good chance of doing well. THEN, we run King of the Hill (no speed limit;no RPM limit) in the same weights. The crowd loves the smoke and speed, and joe farmer is happy because his stock tractor made a good showing in MPH. |
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Re: 6030 in farm stock
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long time puller
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I have a 6030 and pull farm stock. It is Stock..yes, I turned the pump open, like 9 out of 10 of the other tractors I run against. I can run 8mph class in 5-6th gear, depending on whose sled it is and how it's set up. You can't blame ME for how I am able to run when it depends on solely the sled operator or sled. Also, I don't compete very well with the turned up guys with quad ranges...they can push that sp[eed limit all the way down the track till they start to grunt and then they shift...I have to pick a gear and stay with it...too bad...that's the tractor I chose so I gotta live with it don't I. It's body shop quality paint also so they'll cry about a 35 yr old tractor with nice paint is what's gonna happen next. Speed limits are the way to go....I like fair competition too...and it limits me to what I can do also, but making me jump to a class where they have 600 plus hp....I'll spend my money elsewhere, not on entering your pulls, or patronizing your foodstand with my family, and I'll take a few friends with. |
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Re: 6030 in farm stock
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pffft
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A 6030 in 5th or 6th gear is just another tractor and no cause for alarm. |
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Re: 6030 in farm stock
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Anonymous User
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A true stock 6030 is not a problem its the built pump 619 that has created this problem. We have a stock turned up 6030 by use and it does very well in farm stock but does get beet on a regular basis and has NEVER put 20' on the class. |
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