01:29:03pm, Monday, April 29, 2024
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Soon IH will be gone from Prostock
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IH 5488
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Last night I had a thought when I saw the new Claus with the deer block. Soon any red prostock competitors will either quit or switch to a green block with red sheet metal with to me it very sad. When I was growing up nothing was more exciting than to see Smith, Lorenz, Wilkins go up against Mastersons and Little. I think the main issue is the IH guys have to run on kill to be competitive with the John Deere with amounts to two things constantly working on them in the shop and it costing way more to keep a red one running than a John Deere. The main thing pointing in this direction is that no new red pro is being built over the last couple years except for the one by 618 Motorsports. The second reason is in the last couple of years red pro are being bought by green teams and then switched to green motors. Finally the new trend seems to be red teams switching to green motor or a new John Deere prostock. Don’t believe me here are a few examples:
Red Edge-Sold twice to green team sure to have green jd block D2-Sold to green team now has green block T-bone- sold Hook switched to green Fuelish Pleasure- now running jd small block I firmly believe in future the only true red in the prostock class will be Massy Ferguson |
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Re: Soon IH will be gone from Prostock
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DT fannatic
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Weren't those engines built by Perkins? |
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Re: Soon IH will be gone from Prostock
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Gary
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D2 is dt block |
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Re: Soon IH will be gone from Prostock
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IH 5488
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It was I assumed Deppen put a green block in. |
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Re: Soon IH will be gone from Prostock
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Team one
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Don’t forget about El Niño , not a completely new tractor but had a major refresh and is maintaining an IH based block, I don’t think youll ever see Maize move in a green direction as well as a few others there’s a handful of them out there yet but badger state has really seen the switch but I suppose it helps that most of them are fairly local to Lemke. |
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Re: Soon IH will be gone from Prostock
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$
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Just like some green alky supers with red hearts, same thing different cardiologist |
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Re: Soon IH will be gone from Prostock
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You might be surprised too see a few more out over the next couple years. The smaller bore spacing of the dt and sbjd do make for a challenge but plenty of time and $ are being spent on them to keep them competitive. Red edge will stay a dt motor. |
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Re: Soon IH will be gone from Prostock
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Moderator Registered: 03/25/2008 Posts: 1,446 |
You can lay the blame directly on the lack of leadership from the NTPA. The class should never have been 680 and the NTPA killed what was one of the strongest things that tractor pulling had going. Brand loyalty, with their ridiculous and poorly thought out rule that allows " any motor, any sheet metal rule" they killed any true brand loyalty. When a fan finds out that the off brand tractor that they are watching is really just another BBJD then they loss interest. Cross dressing should stay in San Francisco, not tractor pulling. Dick Morgan www.PULLOFF.com Independent Pulling News |
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Re: Soon IH will be gone from Prostock
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Registered: 07/19/2008 Posts: 145 |
1 Outlaw and PPL doing the same with allowing crossdressing. Should never be allowed in any class!!! If anything, allow rules to move some to allow other brands to be competitive. Even if it is cubic inch or weight changes to allow other brands in the class to be competitive. If the other brands start whipping up, they then need to be reduced some by weight or cubic inch, even if in mid season. |
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Re: Soon IH will be gone from Prostock
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Logic
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ProStock is headed in the same direction as ULSS, Also killed by Big Cubes. Set the turbo limit to 5" no coolers or Outlaw Rules and the class would thrive. In Outlaw's any Motor Red or Small Block Deere can compete and stay together. Let the Haters rant. Big money and Big egos will never do what's best for any sport. |
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Re: Soon IH will be gone from Prostock
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Registered: 09/25/2018 Posts: 78 |
I have to agree with Kevin. While there may not be a lot of new red pros coming there are a few. A DSS or two as well. Red pros have picked up a few wins this summer in the big circuits. A big determining factor is how far you want to push them (timing). Some guys run on kill some don't. It's personal preference. Full blown pro stocks are a challenge to keep going with the progression of the class but that doesn't mean everyone is cutting bait and heading to the green team. Why or how it got to this point is another topic. What some of you are missing is that the "pro" class is getting some new life put into it with the 5 inch pro class. The Outlaws were ahead of the curve with this and I can assure you there are more of them coming as more organizations start to add the class. Know of at least half a dozen that I can think of. In some cases, guys have already built them or are in process and are running with the big pros on a state level and doing quite well. The five inch class will continue to grow in numbers and they put on hell of a show. I love a good full blown pro class but that five inch class is going places.
Paul Romack |
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Re: Soon IH will be gone from Prostock
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Registered: 06/16/2017 Posts: 241 |
I know not many people liked when Doug Roberts made the 4.875 bore rule but that sure would have kept things in check a lot better than what we have now. You still could be your 680 cubes but that limited the valve size essentially! I believe the big pro class will wind up just like DSS in a few years. The 5” class will turn out in numbers like the 4.1’s and light pros have. Don’t get me wrong big pros are something special to watch just like top flight diesel supers but there’s a point enough is enough. Look at the ppl numbers this year, everyone says it’s because of parts but I’ll be surprised if they ever get back to where they were. |
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Re: Soon IH will be gone from Prostock
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just sayin
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I have to agree. Lemke's new billet IH block seems to be holding its own this summer. John Link shook up the top 5 both nights in Scheid over the weekend and Blain Stamm is currently leading the points for Badger state against some tough running Deeres. |
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Re: Soon IH will be gone from Prostock
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Registered: 08/22/2019 Posts: 84 |
So I personally don't care for the 680 cube rule, and I do like to see the engine match the sheet metal. But the rules say 680 and any sheet metal. So if the BBJD is dominant and most dependable, why wouldn't you use it. Surprise, it's becase they want to win. You are spending hundreds of thousands of dollars on these machines.They don't want to be towards the back. And if you see someone come up with an IH engine combo that becomes dominant, your going to see guys switch to that. Again, I do love to see a true IH pro and when they take the win against a group of deers, I think it's awesome. And I grew up on deere. |
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Re: Soon IH will be gone from Prostock
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author
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Easy to say when youre not the one paying for blocks continuing to break, theres very little stock anything left on a prostock whats the difference if the motor isnt stock color either, if youre so concerned with what color motor in what tractor go to a farm pull. |
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Re: Soon IH will be gone from Prostock
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David K
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So, are IH motors going to disappear in Diesel Superstock too? They seem to be doing pretty good in that class. |
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Re: Soon IH will be gone from Prostock
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Registered: 06/16/2017 Posts: 241 |
And in every other class of pulling for that matter! |
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Re: Soon IH will be gone from Prostock
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Logic
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Smaller cube classes allow for more variety. Supers are at 540 so bore space doesn’t have a advantage. |
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Re: Soon IH will be gone from Prostock
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AJ
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Red still holds its own across all the other classes pretty well and with that some limits would slow the Process but also on the other hand if someone had the time and $$ to do some major R&D on Cat, Cummins ,Perkins, MAN Or Agco Blocks and if they ran good i am sure others would take notice. Since in the diesel pickups you dont have anything without a cummins it seems like. The guys in BSTP were all gung ho to catch last years season win Pro but now that A certain new comer shows up its making them scratch their heads a bit. But in all the hype BSTP still might see a Red power plant take the season in 10 Pro |
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Re: Soon IH will be gone from Prostock
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8400
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I have thought about this, and first wasnt going to say anything but who cares if IH is gone in Pro Stock. John Deere is almost gone in most every other class.
I went to Louisville, I believe Light Pro Stock was 95 % IH. I was at a pull yesterday and I think 5 John Deeres all afternoon, the point is IH doesnt care, they have run others out of classes so why worry about them now? Mac Nasty is running small block Deere so why can red run? There is nothing wrong with 680, why 650 in Unlimited Super Stock. Why 18 inch drawbar, point is you can question every number we use but in the end its the rules and play by them. If you don't like 680 choose a class with a number you like. Personally I go to pulls just for Prostock. I like it just the way it is. Parrish and Maize and D&R run very well. I believe 2021 Red Edge won big money pull at Waterloo and Rodney won 20000 dollar pull in 2021 I believe. So they are in there they just dont win like you like Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 08/29/2022 01:40PM by Dick Morgan. |
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Re: Soon IH will be gone from Prostock
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Registered: 06/16/2017 Posts: 241 |
How has IH ran everyone else out of other classes? Are you sure about Mac Nasty? It never used to be a small block? |
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Re: Soon IH will be gone from Prostock
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Moderator Registered: 03/19/2018 Posts: 664 |
It isn't both are Perkins 1100s. Why else would Carlton be in the seat?
CP |
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Re: Soon IH will be gone from Prostock
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Registered: 06/16/2017 Posts: 90 |
With an illegal Billet CAV rotary pump too.... |
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Re: Soon IH will be gone from Prostock
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Registered: 06/16/2017 Posts: 241 |
I agree, variety is great! I never liked mods but that light mod class in Outlaws is actually really fun to watch with all their different engine combinations. I wish there were a lot more variety in all classes to be honest |
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Re: Soon IH will be gone from Prostock
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8400
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i dont know that i said they ran them out but no one seemed to mind that they took over but now its a big deal about one class look at the overall numbers and i bet ih is still way out in front. The ones who should be complaining are ac oliver minnies th ey are gone and most that are running run a diffferent motor also.
what i will say is ih dominates every other class and yet all we hear about is the one they dont how we should change rules for them.Ibelieve its just as hard if not harder for ac to get to 680 but no one wanted to help them. But what i will say is these are the rules and everybody has to deal with it and that someone will find something and they will be back on top for awhile then someone will find something and they will be on top for awhile |
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Re: Soon IH will be gone from Prostock
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Registered: 08/09/2022 Posts: 4 |
Oh BOO HOO When was the last time some JD guy came on here complaining that DSS is all red? DSS is all red, Light and heavy alcohol super are basically all red, Super Farm, Lt Pro, Limted pro, are probably won by 70% red. I mean how many 1066's can a person watch? I don't like diesel trucks, why cause I hate watching 25 clapped out dodges pull with no competition, so I don't watch diesel trucks. Leave PS alone for goodness sake. |
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Re: Soon IH will be gone from Prostock
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Ih 5488
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Good grief what I am trying to say is when more than one brand is competitive a class is more fun to watch. I miss when Schramek was in his heyday cause he was giving red a run for the money. Back when silver bullet was dominating wasn’t it fun to watch joe k and Roberts run with him. Back in the early 2000s prostock was fun cause Brinkmiere and Smith were giving Boyds all they could handle. In 2013 wasn’t that special when Cope won the championship. Somewhere along the way Jd fans got the idea if anyone that likes red says anything about how lop sided prostock has become oh we are whining. I think it is said when any class all one brand even if it favors red. To me anymore the limited classes are the most fun to watch cause multiple brands can compete. And for the record nascar and drag racing built its popularity when there was competition between Chevrolet, Ford, and Dodge guess what that has gone my the wayside and no it is not as popular. |
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Traditionalist vs. Realist
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$
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Traditionalist, -standing by a brand, knowing in your heart, it is not as good.
Realist- crossing over the line (based on performance), knowing in your mind, its the correct thing to do. |
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Re: Traditionalist vs. Realist
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Facts are facts
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Whether you like it or not pulling is getting closer to NHRA and NASCAR by the day. All pretty much run the same just depends on what brand you want to “dress” your tractor. Like Jason Schultz said it best if your running a pro stock you got cash and your gonna have the best parts you can buy under the hood of that tractor otherwise you wouldn’t be doing it. I personally don’t care what hoods you have on your tractor, pro stocks of Today are impressive to say the least. |
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Re: Traditionalist vs. Realist
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Posts: 65 |
I've been simmering on this question for a while now, but it needs to be asked. Why doesn't this discussion EVER get applied to the 3.6/SSD trucks!? Chevy's & Ford's with Cummins in them? Apparently there isn't "purist" chevy and ford diesel truck guys out there to bring into the sport? Or am I apart of the ignorant crowd that doesn't know they came with cummins at one point like Claas Axions came with a Deere motor at one time?
Edit: This isn't an argument for or against body matching motor, what I'm saying is that if you are for tractors matching and what it's about, you better have the same energy towards the trucks. -Collin Birkholz Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/30/2022 03:23AM by lil' 1456. |
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Re: Traditionalist vs. Realist
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$
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Speakin of trucks, how much flack would Honda or Toyota or Nissan sheet metal, catch in any truck class? |
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Re: Traditionalist vs. Realist
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24.5
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Do you remember 2019 when red won both NTPA and PPL championships? 2020 season was a joke due to covid19. Without a doubt 2021 and now 2022 is going to be won by green. Who knows what will win 2023. But to say a red team is a traditionalist only and not intelligent is an insult. |
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Re: Traditionalist vs. Realist
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$
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No insult intended, and this cuts both ways. Red power is the way to go, in some classes and Green is the way to go in others.
I grew up on Massy/ MM/ Olivers and real Case tractors (pre red paint) and worked some for a Orange dealer, so my heart wants them to win. My mind, knows better. |
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Re: Traditionalist vs. Realist
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Moderator Registered: 03/25/2008 Posts: 1,446 |
One of the major problems is that there are only a great, few top notch builders that specialize in BBJD parts, and another group that specializes in IH builds. Unfortunately if you want to go with an " off brand " then you have to do all the R&D and build yourself. I guess that's one reason I really enjoy the guys that choose to go down a different road than the crowd. I know that pullers basically come in 1 of 2 different categories, those that love the challenges of the " off brand " build and those that want the winners circle experience. Pulling is blessed to have both sets of pullers. Dick Morgan www.PULLOFF.com Independent Pulling News |
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Re: Traditionalist vs. Realist
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The advantage to the bbjd as most know is the bore spacing. With everyone running aftermarket blocks cranks ect what would be the issue with letting builders build an ih style engine but lengthened to bbjd bore centers |
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Re: Traditionalist vs. Realist
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Registered: 06/16/2017 Posts: 241 |
That’s not allowed |
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Re: Traditionalist vs. Realist
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D361'er
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Didn't they let the small block deere aftermarket blocks move the camshaft location a few years ago? And now since the aftermarket block big blocks deeres are now solid I believe they are capable of 820 cubic inches easily.....I mean,...well,... you know ,...who is ever really gonna check? LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL 
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Re: Traditionalist vs. Realist
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I understand that, I meant why wouldn’t they allow that. A ppl modified 4wd engine has to be 5in bore space or under wether you use ford gm or mopar. |
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Re: Soon IH will be gone from Prostock
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Registered: 10/30/2018 Posts: 749 |
O know 25 clapped out JDs |
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